Concept2 Forum

Hello,<br />I am relatively new here on the forums, and I have never posted but I've been reading posts for a while here. The topic I have is more of a collection of problems I think I need to work over before I can live up to full potential.<br />First things first, I'm short. (5' 8 1/2'') Shortness and erg times never really worked well together in the first place, and to add to that, I'm an ex-football player, so I think that has had a huge impact in the way I train and the ways I needed to train in the first place. However, there is hope. There are kids on my college team that are my height or just a little taller that have drastically better erg times than I do. I'm hoping there's a way to really break the chains, so to say, that have been holding my time back. My coach gives us a schedule of workouts to follow ex: 2 x 20' at an anaerobic threshold level, but these don't really seem to help me out, I either don't benefit much, or choke on erg test day. I've been reading up on the wolverine plan, and while it seems intense, I'd like to give it a shot, as I am really really fed up with not making progress.<br />Second, I've been browsing the forums and other websites on proper foods and drinks to consume during a training season, but no one seems to come to a clear-cut consensus. I was wondering what any of you thought about proper nutrition. I'm not a heavy drinker and I don't eat a lot of sugar to begin with, so I think maybe its the other stuff I consume that's limiting my ability somewhat.<br />Third, I'd like to note that my coach is a strict erg time/weight person, I am 99% sure that if your technique is absolute junk and you can pull a great 2k time, he'll put you in the varsity 8 over someone with let's say impeccable technique on the water and a slightly higher 2k time. So as you can see, improving technique really has no benefit for myself, although I do try to be as precise as possible. Improving erg time (and dropping a few pounds) really is the only way to go. <br />Lastly, I bought the new Rowing News magazine today and they mentioned a possible "bad" way to stretch and a better way to stretch. The bad way is static stretching, which is what I've been doing. I'm confused, though, as to what the better way is. Would anyone know? Thanks a bunch to whoever made it this far, and extra thanks to anyone who's going to reply.

Suggest you have a few days rest, then do some real endurance work for a month or so. Too much AT killed the cat I reckon. Try Wolv.L4s, much more fun, but stick to the ratings.<br /><br />I remember seeing a Moto Guzzi four at Henley, just in from an Olympic Gold, many years ago. They were your height and about as wide as tall. The way they rowed, I don't think they'd wasted any time with on-land training.<br /><br />Food: so long as there's a good cook in the offing, you can eat anything and everything dished up. After all taking exercise and plenty of it is a normal human activity, so why shouldn't we scoff normal grub? Doing ourselves out of a treat, at least here in Italy.. Maybe those who do no hard work will have to be careful, but it's not our problem. Stay off the booze tho.<br /><br />Technique means everything, including getting fit and writing here. It's your choice which bits to watch. At the very least there's a bow and arrow situation. Maybe your coach wants to see the work first because he doesn't have many boats, so wants to solve one problem at a time, having seen that he can sort you out technically once you're afloat. Ergers will never pull alike anyway.<br /><br />Stretching. My method hasn't killed me yet, nor caused any injuries. I just warm up slowly, lengthening the stroke, for about 20 minutes until HR is 130-140. Then I consider myself warmed up and stretched and the problems start.

Hey jamesg,<br />Thanks for your comments. That stuff about that four made me laugh. I definitely plan to take some of this into consideration. One question though: In terms of stretching, I meant to pose the question more like this. Is there anything I can do before I get on the erg to stretch out? Rowing News mentioned that static stretching can decrease performance. For example, I like to stretch my lower back so I don't risk injury there, as well as hamstrings so I don't get that "lunge" at the end of the recovery, as well as a couple other groups. I couldn't imagine what other kind of stretching there is besides on-erg and static. Thanks man

Hi ASpeidell.<br /><br />I'm kind of with jamesg on stretching (at least so far). I've always been told that you shouldn't stretch "cold" muscles...so you would have to warm up first (whether on the erg or otherwise). I've always figured, why not on the erg?...and if you didn't feel stretched at that point, you could stop, I suppose and do some additional stretching. Although I always feel stretched (at least in the hamstrings) when I finish erging.<br /><br />Did Rowing News say anything at all about what was better?--or just how not to stretch? <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-ASpeidell+Oct 14 2005, 02:46 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ASpeidell @ Oct 14 2005, 02:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I like to stretch my lower back so I don't risk injury there[right] </td></tr></table><br />How are you using your back, that you think stretching will avoid injury? (I can't think of any movement you should have in your lower back. I've been told that you should neither arch nor bend your back during the stroke...just pivot from the hip. You should be maintaining stability in an erect torso [using your lats/abs, etc.] to transmit the power of your legs through your back/torso to the handle.) <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-ASpeidell+Oct 14 2005, 02:46 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ASpeidell @ Oct 14 2005, 02:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I like to stretch my[...] hamstrings so I don't get that "lunge" at the end of the recovery[right] </td></tr></table><br />Again, I don't understand what the "lunge" is that you're trying to avoid...could you explain a little more? <br /><br />Stretching the hamstrings I definitely understand (although I think it just happens as you row). As you start the recovery (but after you extend your arms), tight hamstrings can certainly limit the forward pivot of the back/torso(from the hip over your extended legs). At any rate, as I row, they tend to stretch out. <br /><br />But you have a coach on site to watch your technique, etc...isn't he/she giving you any help on these issues? (Even if they select on the basis of 2K scores, certainly they have to focus on technique at some point...or is it simply that they aren't accessible until after the selections?) <br /><br />At any rate, best wishes.<br /><br />Alissa<br />

ASpeidell:<br /><br />You pose a number of interesting questions. I'm 46 and have been erging since May this year. I'm 5' 7" and have never been a strong aerobic fitness person. Yes, I ran cross country and distance in high school, but was never very fast. I've run on and off since then, but never intensely - a 5K race every now and again. I also have a nephew that rows at McGill University in Montreal, who is from St. Catharines, Ontario, one of the bastions of on-water rowing in N. America. He and his coaches (I eavesdrop when I watch him train or compete) have shared lots of information with me ... I've forgotten more than I can remember. That's my background. I am not a long-time erger or on-water rower. In fact, I have NEVER been on the water (yet).<br /><br />My perspective is this. You need to do TONS of aerobic base building at a more aggressive heart rate (not just dogging it to put in the meters - upper aerobic range). Check out postings from "ranger" and from Mike Caliston (who developed the Wolverine Plan). Both have some great (no, make that awesome) training tips. Go too fast for too many short pieces, and you'll simply burn up. Train like this, and then try a 2K time trial, and you'll fail. My point is it's probably not your fault but that of poor coaching.<br /><br />Of course, you need to do the training and put "money in the bank" (the "deposit") for when you want to race or time trail (the "withdrawal"). Nothing great was ever truly accomplished without work.<br /><br />Technique is just as crucial. Even with just the small technique changes my nephew has shared with me ("Uncle Mark, keep the handle up and hands up and get long"), I've seen some incredible improvement (for an old short guy like me) for my 5K times -- from 2:11 pace May 12 (killing myself) to 2:02 pace this morning (and probably any morning I want to crank it out). I'm set to go under 20 minutes, which for a barely lightweight, 5' 7", 46-year-old isn't bad (about 50th percentile or so based on the C2 web site and standings). It's certainly not world class like some of the people I race against (over the Internet) here, but I'm pleased with all the benefits -- I've lost 20 pounds and feel better and stronger than ever.<br /><br />From my perspective, any coach that just goes by erg times alone is struggling (or simply uninformed) as a coach. If you aren't seat racing and he's not looking at technique, who can take up and take down stroke rates, who can be a leader in the boat, who can be a leader on and off the water, etc., he's probably inexperienced as a coach, and you'll need to find other avenues to explore to get better. From what I've seen, a great coach can take someone with moderate talent and turn them into an above average competitor. Not a gold medallist, but someone who can be competitive.<br /><br />The trick will be getting in the proper work while you still keep him happy. Maybe it would be best to really crank up the work after the season ends (on your own), in preparation for the next season. Chalk this one season up to experience. What year are you?<br /><br />Finally, just about everyone here is here to support you. There is an encyclopedia of rowing knowledge here. Ask and you shall receive. I feel privileged to have been able to get started as I have with so much great information being shared.<br /><br />-- Mark

I agree with everything Mark says except to add that if he can do a 5k at 2:02 then he can do one at 1:59.9 <br /><br />Come on Mark, go for it!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />GB

<!--QuoteBegin-GutBustin'+Oct 15 2005, 11:34 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(GutBustin' @ Oct 15 2005, 11:34 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I agree with everything Mark says except to add that if he can do a 5k at 2:02 then he can do one at 1:59.9  <br /><br />Come on Mark, go for it!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />GB <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />GB:<br /><br />Thanks for the support. Tried this morning and just didn't have enough money in the bank. That's what three days off, stress at the office, and too much rich food at business dinners (and dare I admit alcohol?) will do for one's PB attempts. I'll get there, soon I hope, because it's a mental barrier I need to break.<br /><br />Regards -- Mark<br /><br />PS -- Also started the Crossfit training program for strength training this week, and it's kicking my backside!<br />

Well it's just a question of when. Everything you wrote on the post above is almost exactly the same strategies I'm using, and despite their differences, I believe is what Ranger and Calviston both emphasize as well - building the base. And yeah, rich business dinners and three martini lunches are fuel for your erging - that's what I tell myself when I'm living it up!<br />GB

<!--QuoteBegin-GutBustin'+Oct 15 2005, 10:46 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(GutBustin' @ Oct 15 2005, 10:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well it's just a question of when. Everything you wrote on the post above is almost exactly the same strategies I'm using, and despite their differences, I believe is what Ranger and Calviston both emphasize as well - building the base. And yeah, rich business dinners and three martini lunches are fuel for your erging - that's what I tell myself when I'm living it up!<br />GB <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />GB:<br /><br />If only it were fuel ... jet fuel maybe?<br /><br /> <br /><br />-- Mark