Concept2 Forum

I've been facinated with rowing a 1x for two decades, but have never tried. I've been training on my Concept2 Model D for about a year and a half, and wondered if any experienced on-the-water rowers could give me some feedback as to how difficult it would be to learn to row a 1x. What is the best way to get started? Where/how would I get started?<br /><br />Also, how big a body of water is needed? There's a local lake close to home, but I estimate it's a half-mile in length. Is that too small?<br /><br />I have sailed and raced sailing dinghys for 30 years, on and off, so I have a fairly good sense of balance.<br /><br />I'm 49, male, 180 lbs., in San Diego, California.<br /><br />Any and all advise greatly appreciated!

It would be impossible to quantify the "difficulty" for a given individual, some seem to pick things up quickly and others don't. Since you are probably comfortable around water, at least one hurdle has been cleared, but that won't reduce the height of the next, which is avoiding the tendency (guys in particular) to think "I've got this under control, afterall, I've paddled around in a rubber raft before." <br /><br />Find a local club that has a beginning sculling program and take a class, if the instructor/coach is good, they will explain things incrementally and help you progress as quickly as possible, do not try to make assumptions in the beginning, just follow directions, you will have plenty of time on your own to work things out in your own mind later. Just as with any new skill, get solid fundamentals first, or be trying to break the bad habits for a long time.<br /><br />A Half mile calm body of water would be an excellent place to learn, and will only become a restriction as you increase in skill and can cover the distance more quickly than you wish it to be covered.<br />

I am also fascinated by the prospect of rowing a 1x!<br />At our local Club in Ottawa (Canada), one has to take a "Learn to Row" course, which consists of 5 classes, each 2 1/2 hours, to learn the terminology, how to handle the boats, and sweep rowing, before taking the sculling course. I was told that learning sweep rowing first makes learning sculling easier.

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and wondered if any experienced on-the-water rowers could give me some feedback as to how difficult it would be to learn to row a 1x </td></tr></table><br />It's easy, but takes time and patience to start with.<br /><br />It takes 5-10 sessions to get past the 'oh s*** i'm going to fall in, I'm never going to be able to do this' stage.<br /><br />Then about another 10-20 sessions to get to the point where you can feel connected and start to put power into the strokes (sometimes), and crab only occasionally...<br /><br />Then about 100 sessions where you think alternately, 'this is easy, I'm doing really well' and 'this is all messed up again, why can't I do this'...<br /><br />But at the end of the day it's all about wearing cool sunglasses and cruising up and down the river in the sun looking like you know what you are doing, and overtaking college eights <br /><br />The worst part is the first 3 months when you get made to look crap by school kids. No one ever sees when you do something right, but as soon as some 12 year old school kid overtakes you all your friends just happen to be on the bank watching...<br /><br />But once you get the hang of iot there's nothing better.<br /><br />ok, so maybe sex is better, and beer is better, and chocolate is better, and well... ok... so there's actually loads of things are better, but it still beats erging!

A couple of years ago my wife decided she wanted to learn. We spent five days at Craftsbury Sculling School in Vermont and they had very good coaching for me and gave her (and the other new scullers there) a very impressive start in becoming proficient. I've been rowing and sculling for about 25 years (uh oh, I'm old!), and I was surprised by how quickly the people who were new to scullng progressed while there.<br /><br />David

I just purchased a used Maas Single to take with me when I go to college, and I have to say that it is better than rowing in my Light 4. Just being by yourself is awesome. But I went into it not knowing which hand went where and I can go at a pretty good pace now. Even entering my first novice 1X race this saturday down at the Matthews Regatta. I've rowed the single exactly 5 times, so it's gonna be an interesting race.

I'm curious as to the comment that rowing sweeps makes you a better sculler as I've always heard the reverse. Paul S. do you have any comment?<br /><br />I've been on the erg for about 1.5 years now, too, and also did an indoor training sesson with Paul S. last fall, which btw was excellent. (Paul, I'm getting better, but will still need a lot of work again soon!) This past winter, I was able to hook up with a rowing club and row in the tanks at a local University. That also helped me a ton. I've since been rowing sweeps in a 4x through the local club and it's been a blast. It's only been about 3 times on the water so far and you definitely feel like a total novice, but each time is a little better. The focus it takes on every stroke is incredible. I equated it with golf the other day, as if you take your mind off it for a split second, you're messing up--but you also don't want to over think things either! I guess you develop muscle memory, but make sure you learn the right technique to remember. Tonight I'm going to scull for the first time in a 2x, which I understand is a good way to begin since the other person will set the boat and make it more stable.<br /><br />Paul, any comments from you here? I really think I want to focus on sculling, but want to keep up on the sweeps. There will be a big push on sculling in our club this season as the coach mentioned that sculling will make you a better sweep rower. They are converting one of the 4x's into a quad for just that purpose. I know you and your wife race in a 2x, so if you have any feedback, I'd appreciate it greatly. I hope to be back out to the Pacific NW this summer and will try to get together with you to see if I'm making any progress. My slide is nice and slow now, but I still need to work on that inital leg drive (left leaning haystack!). It's funny, but I feel like I do better with that in the boat than with the erg--why would that be?<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Kevin

Slow Boat,<br /> I've been rowing on water for about 20 years now and would do the following if I was in your situation: Before doing anything else, book a vacation with the Craftsbury Sculling School in Vermont. In this way you are getting loads of time on the water with attention from people who are being paid to teach you the basic skills. After that experience, while nursing your blisters, you'll be able to decide for yourself if you want to take it further.<br /><br />If you decide to take it further then I would suggest to hunt around for a local rowing club that caters for masters rowing. Not all clubs do. Many are only interested in younger folk to shape into elite rowers. Some clubs have masters rowing but only offer use of their crappy boats & oars to the masters rowers, keeping the good equipment for exclusive use by their younger members. It happens here in Australia so I'm sure it's ditto for elsewhere.<br /><br />If your thinking of taking up sculling seriously then it's probably better to buy your own boat, after doing lots of research on boats & oars. Good equipment makes a lot of difference to the learning curve and your overall enjoyment of the sport. I use to think that C2 smoothie oars, with the vortex edge, were the best oars around until I tried some Croker oars. Likewise, good boat builders can now manufacture single skin full carbon boats at min weight which are cheaper, more durable and far easier to repair then their honeycombe carbon counterparts.<br /><br />Your local lake sounds a bit small for any serious rowing, but for a beginner, would initially be OK. The essential ingrediants for learning are calm water and little other boat traffic.<br /><br />Don't totally neglect the possibility of rowing sweep oar with a masters group. Some people are more suited to seep oar rowing than sculling. James Tomkins is one example. Currently one of the best male sweep oar rowers in the world however he never really looks comfortable in a scull.<br /><br />The belief of the Australian Women's team selectors is that scullers make good sweep oar rowers. That's why all girls hoping for national selection must start off in the scull first. Furthermore, it's much easier to tell who can move a boat the fastest by testing with 1X than say by ergo testing or crew rowing.<br /><br />Keep it smooth, keep it relaxed<br />Roland Baltutis<br />

<!--QuoteBegin-kwadams+May 5 2005, 04:56 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(kwadams @ May 5 2005, 04:56 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm curious as to the comment that rowing sweeps makes you a better sculler as I've always heard the reverse.  Paul S. do you have any comment?<br /><br />I've been on the erg for about 1.5 years now, too, and also did an indoor training sesson with Paul S. last fall, which btw was excellent.  (Paul, I'm getting better, but will still need a lot of work again soon!)  This past winter, I was able to hook up with a rowing club and row in the tanks at a local University.  That also helped me a ton.  I've since been rowing sweeps in a 4x through the local club and it's been a blast.  It's only been about 3 times on the water so far and you definitely feel like a total novice, but each time is a little better.  The focus it takes on every stroke is incredible.  I equated it with golf the other day, as if you take your mind off it for a split second, you're messing up--but you also don't want to over think things either!  I guess you develop muscle memory, but make sure you learn the right technique to remember.  Tonight I'm going to scull for the first time in a 2x, which I understand is a good way to begin since the other person will set the boat and make it more stable.<br /><br />Paul, any comments from you here?  I really think I want to focus on sculling, but want to keep up on the sweeps.  There will be a big push on sculling in our club this season as the coach mentioned that sculling will make you a better sweep rower.  They are converting one of the 4x's into a quad for just that purpose.  I know you and your wife race in a 2x, so if you have any feedback, I'd appreciate it greatly.  I hope to be back out to the Pacific NW this summer and will try to get together with you to see if I'm making any progress.  My slide is nice and slow now, but I still need to work on that inital leg drive (left leaning haystack!).  It's funny, but I feel like I do better with that in the boat than with the erg--why would that be?<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Kevin <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Kevin,<br /><br />Sweeping just doesn't translate to sculling at all, other than establishing a good stroke sequence, dealing with two oars is just too different. Sculling is generally helpful to getting in a sweep boat, but they both are truly individual specialties in the long run.<br /><br />Just a clarity note: 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x+ (Sculling boats - Single, Double, "Quad"ruple, "Oct"uple); and 2-, 4-, 4+, 8+ (Sweep boats, Pair, Four, Eight).<br /><br />Getting into a 2x for your sculling outing is a good way to go, for the reasons you state, but that usually means that one of the people needs to be somewhat experienced so they can give helpful early guidance and provide examples of what you want to learn. Otherwise, a nice wide and stable boat by yourself is not bad. There are just some things that take time to iron out, and most of them can be done easily when alone and not under a watchful eye that may make you nervous.<br /><br />If it turns out to be a nice day, we could likely do a session in a 2x, that could be more fun than on the Erg.<br /><br />You could well feeling like early force application is coming easier in the boat, just as some feel that on the slides. This is because you will drive the boat (oarlock) backwards quite quickly, until the blade locks into the water and pressure builds. But take my word for it, if it feels much different from being on the Ground based Erg, there is a negative effect on the Avg speed of the boat. One thing that is sure, the drive time in the boat should seem longer than on the Erg, as the shaft stores some energy and advances through the water in a way that extends the drive time differently than what a chain can do.<br /><br />

Hi Paul--<br /><br />Thanks for the feedback. I did my first sculling last night (in the 2x) with an experienced sculler. It was a lot of fun and I realized it's what I want to concentrate on. To me, you feel like you're more "part of the water" as it's just you there (I was in stern). I have to admit, however, when I took my first stroke, I felt like I was going to go headfirst into the river! It's just different than being in a sweep boat.<br /><br />I had a tough time getting the hand positions correct. I kept pulling the boat to port. They had told me "left over right" and what I was doing was literally keeping my left hand over my right as they crossed, so the starboard oar was digging. They explained afterwards that while it is "left over right", the hands still need to stay at the same height to not upset the set and keep it straight. So the left really follows the right. Do I have that corect? It was pretty frustrating last night and I'm sure the experienced sculler with me didn't appreciate going in circles with me. <br /><br />I think I understand what you are saying in your last paragraph. The drive time is definitely longer in the boat as the oar feels the pressure of the water. I usually erg at about 110 df and this seems much lighter than what the boat feels like. I imagine that there is a difference between sculling and sweeps here, though. I know you erg at a fairly low df, too. Is this really representative of the "on the water feel" or is it more to get you to apply a better leg drive? Would moving my df up a little translate any better here? Again, my focus wants to be on sculling, so perhaps I'm better sticking with the 110 df.<br /><br />I think I'm going to sign up for a week at Craftsbury this summer. They're just up the road from me and I hear it's very worthwhile. In the meatime, until I can convince my wife to move back out to the NW (!), hopefully I can work out another trip to see you later in the summer. Going out in the 2x would be fun if we have the time, although the work on ErgMonitor was well worth it, too. One thing I found last night was that the person in bow could set the boat, but couldn't see what my hands were doing. I'm going to try to head out in a single this weekend like you suggested to work on things myself. Oh, and I finally ordered a set of slides so we'll see how that works out for me. I was ready for something different.<br /><br />Hope all is well with you and your wife. Do you guys have any races coming up? I imagine you'll be out watching the Windermere Cup tomorrow.<br /><br />Kevin

<!--QuoteBegin-kwadams+May 6 2005, 10:34 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(kwadams @ May 6 2005, 10:34 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi Paul--<br /><br />I think I understand what you are saying in your last paragraph.  The drive time is definitely longer in the boat as the oar feels the pressure of the water.  I usually erg at about 110 df and this seems much lighter than what the boat feels like.  I imagine that there is a difference between sculling and sweeps here, though.  I know you erg at a fairly low df, too.  Is this really representative of the "on the water feel" or is it more to get you to apply a better leg drive?  Would moving my df up a little translate any better here?  Again, my focus wants to be on sculling, so perhaps I'm better sticking with the 110 df.<br /><br />Hope all is well with you and your wife.  Do you guys have any races coming up?  I imagine you'll be out watching the Windermere Cup tomorrow.<br /><br />Kevin <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sounds like you had a great outing. I keep the DF low to maintain quickness and just have to deal with the bit longer load when transitioning into the boat. I suppose that some highre DF sessions on the Erg would not be bad, but I'd probably make them very infrequent just because the habit of being quick will be more important in the long run.<br /><br />Tam is rowing in the Opening Day race, I'll be watching. We'll be going to the World Masters Games in July, so once she's done with the race tomorrow, the serious work for that starts.<br />

Hi! It's me. The other slo_boat.<br /><br />I'm really enjoying this thread. I rowed a season at UNC-CH years ago. We were a club team and had some old 8s and 4s, so all I ever learned was sweep. I moved to Austin, TX about 10 years ago, and Town Lake seems full of rowers at times. I keep thinking of getting out on the water and learning to scull.<br /><br />Paul makes a lot of sense to me. I keep trying to remember what the boat felt like when I erg. All of the low rating discussion makes great sense in that context. I can rate much higher, but I keep remembering our coach telling us that rushing the slide checks the boat. <br /><br />I wish I had the vacation time and the $$$ to try a week at a camp. Those were great suggestions, they just won't work for me right now.<br /><br />Here's my question.<br /><br />Given that the erg is pretty forgiving of poor form (or even rewarding of poor form since there are some things that will help keep the flywheel moving that would slow a boat), what types of things do I have to worry about so that I don't develop bad habits that will hurt me when I finally to find the time and the money to get out on the water?