Recreational Shell

[old] SimonB · Post by **[old] SimonB** » March 2nd, 2005, 9:42 pm

Hi I am about to take the plunge and buy a recreational shell. I have never owned one before and admit to been a complete newbie to water rowing. I have rowed in the ocean before, but that was many many years ago. What should I be looking for and what should I avoid? Here is the kind of boat I have been looking at. <a href='http://www.rowalden.com/store/details.asp?ProID=210' target='_blank'>http://www.rowalden.com/store/details.a ... 210</a> I'll be rowing almost exclusively on the local rivers, fairly wide and calm. Any suggesstions and comments are gratefully accepted

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » March 2nd, 2005, 10:35 pm

<a href='http://www.maasboats.com/' target='_blank'>Maas 24</a> if you think that decent performance is what you are after. Very easy to Row, and it runs well. If you are wanting to pull into a beach from time to time and more durability is attractive try the <a href='http://www.echorowing.com/islander.html' target='_blank'>Echo Islander</a>. The Echos folding riggers are very clever and functional for ease of transport. The boat is kind of heavy to be lugging about too much, but not completely unmanageable. The Maas 24 is an excellent performer in all types of water, though it's not as stable as the Maas Aero or the Echo. The Alden Star is very similar to the Echo, though the Echo has no skeg to worry about. I've had experience with all 3 of these rec boats and making a choice would really depend on having more specifics about your use and expectations, launcing facilities, etc....

[old] SimonB · Post by **[old] SimonB** » March 3rd, 2005, 10:58 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(PaulS @ Mar 2 2005, 09:35 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><a href='http://www.maasboats.com/' target='_blank'>Maas 24</a> if you think that decent performance is what you are after. Very easy to Row, and it runs well. If you are wanting to pull into a beach from time to time and more durability is attractive try the <a href='http://www.echorowing.com/islander.html' target='_blank'>Echo Islander</a>. The Echos folding riggers are very clever and functional for ease of transport. The boat is kind of heavy to be lugging about too much, but not completely unmanageable. The Maas 24 is an excellent performer in all types of water, though it's not as stable as the Maas Aero or the Echo. The Alden Star is very similar to the Echo, though the Echo has no skeg to worry about. I've had experience with all 3 of these rec boats and making a choice would really depend on having more specifics about your use and expectations, launcing facilities, etc.... </td></tr></table> Thanks for the reply Paul. I am hoping to just strap the thing on top of a car and take it down to the various launch points. Some are proper boat launches and some are just beach. It would be beneficial if I could handle the thing and not herniate each and every time I want to lift it Since I am not racing, I'm looking for stability and somewhere where I can dump a small rucksack with lunch. Max distance would be an easy 30 miles in a day. I would also prefer sliding seat as opposed to fixed seat sliding foot rest (if there is such a beast).. EDIT: Just been looking at the Echo Islander. Looks good. What's a Skeg? Thanks again.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » March 3rd, 2005, 12:47 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(SimonB @ Mar 3 2005, 06:58 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I am hoping to just strap the thing on top of a car and take it down to the various launch points. Some are proper boat launches and some are just beach. It would be beneficial if I could handle the thing and not herniate each and every time I want to lift it Since I am not racing, I'm looking for stability and somewhere where I can dump a small rucksack with lunch. Max distance would be an easy 30 miles in a day. I would also prefer sliding seat as opposed to fixed seat sliding foot rest (if there is such a beast).. EDIT: Just been looking at the Echo Islander. Looks good. What's a Skeg? Thanks again. </td></tr></table> Skeg = Fin, The Alden and Maas both have a thin blade fin that would be bad to hit the bottom with during a beach launch, and without it both would track poorly. The Echo has a built in rib that helps to keep the boat tracking straight and you could litterally row it right up onto a sandy beach, if you wanted to. Probably best for the boat to get out in the shallow water however. If the 60lbs or so does not seem unwieldy, it seems that you would get very practical service from the Echo. My wife and I own a Maas 2x, and have been very pleased with it's performance, it is the boat that we actually race in and haven't found it to be any sort of disadvantage along side regular "racing shells", it's weight is even the same as some pretty highly touted (and pricey) 2x's. Ultimately, we will buy a "racing boat", but this serves the purpose for the time being and has been practical to carry to lakes and rivers that we want to row on. If you can arrange a trial in any of the boats, I would suggest doing that, then you can know for sure about moving each around.

[old] Don Seymour · Post by **[old] Don Seymour** » March 3rd, 2005, 1:37 pm

Another boat company you should check out is Peinert - <a href='http://www.sculling.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.sculling.com/</a> They have a boat that's competitive with the Maas 24 - Dolphin and an interesting light and stable boat - Zephyr. Also check out the Hudson T6 by the Canadian maker of nice racing shells. Not much on their website except a picture of a yellow one at the top of their models page: <a href='http://www.hudsonboatworks.com/05products/products.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.hudsonboatworks.com/05produc ... htm</a> More at - <a href='http://www.scanit.com/row/HudsonT6.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.scanit.com/row/HudsonT6.htm</a> and <a href='http://www.gordonboatworks.com/products/hudson_t6.html' target='_blank'>http://www.gordonboatworks.com/products ... tml</a> I think Xeno has one of these and used to row it when it was rough. Have fun shopping. There's nothing better than being out on the water. Don

[old] SimonB · Post by **[old] SimonB** » March 3rd, 2005, 4:24 pm

Thanks Paul & Don You've both helped alot. Cannot wait for the warmer weather come.

[old] gorow9 · Post by **[old] gorow9** » March 3rd, 2005, 9:08 pm

Have you made a decision? I've rowed in peinert boats before and I'd recomend the dolfin above the zephyr although I haven't rowed that yet they are very stable but a lot slower than the also reletivly stable dolphin. I've rowed those things in bad chop and caught a few nasty crabs but never flipped. When the weather's really bad that's usually what I row. Good luck ~Sara~

[old] SimonB · Post by **[old] SimonB** » March 3rd, 2005, 9:27 pm

No decision yet !!! I'm leaning towards the Echo as with the folding outriggers it will be easier to handle when I'm by myself and have to load it onto the roof of my car. It also has no Skeg (I know what that means now , thanks Paul) and there are lots of places where I may want to run upto on the river. However, it's more expensive than the Hudson T6 and with the exchange rate US to CDN will be a bit more expensive. Hmmm decisions decisions........ I've got a bit of time yet before the river starts to unfreeze (at least 3-4 weeks), so I'm going to ponder on this some more. Does anyone on this forum have an Echo Islander by any chance? Paul, <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I've had experience with all 3 of these rec boats </td></tr></table> Although I'm not really racing, can you get a good clip (speed) going in the Islander?

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » March 4th, 2005, 9:46 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(SimonB @ Mar 3 2005, 05:27 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Although I'm not really racing, can you get a good clip (speed) going in the Islander? </td></tr></table> Yes, all these move along just fine, probably a cruising speed that would easily be less than 1 minute/mile slower than much less stable craft. Due to the exponential nature of fluid drag and the way hulls work the rec boats can even be easier to maintain at low end speeds than the racing boats, there is a cross-over where both are equal, and then the racing boat becomes more efficient. Unless actually racing it's doubtful that you would bother with speeds above that cross-over point and the additional stability even pushes that point a bit higher due to the ease of rowing. Dons suggestion of the Hudson T6 is very good also, I've only seen pictures of that boat, but it looks pretty nice, and the price used to look really great from the US side. Though truly, over the life of the boat, the price differences are pretty minor, the largest factor in making that true is the ease of use being enough that you will use the boat frequently. For your oars, I'd recommend C2 Macons with the current sleeves. Though some might say that there are "higher performance" options, my recommendation is based on ease of use and intended purpose. They do offer 2 blade sizes and to help compact things just a little you can get the larger size, but then go with an overall shorter length (~292cm). Whoever you talk with at C2 will help you nail down the details specifically. Hudson also was talking about building some oars, so with teh exchange rate it might be worth checking out what they are offering. All the best in figuring out your choice.

[old] arowma · Post by **[old] arowma** » March 4th, 2005, 2:31 pm

Thank you for doing this shopping for us. We're interested in a double. The lakes here can get rough & windy, the river we live on can be fast, beach access would be the norm, and we're not so far from the ocean that we wouldn't make some excursions on salt. The Echo looks pretty functional, but purchasing 2 would be out of our league :^( We also find duty & brokerage a teeth gnasher when we order from the States to Canada. Unfortunate that Hudson has such an uninformative website, but somewhere I read that their T-6/T-7 have optional decking. I like the fact that we could carry a realistic amount of gear, even the dog, and go on an overnight. We're likely to tour more than to race, though it would be sweet to have one boat that did it all. This purchase may be a ways off for us, but thanks again for posting all the info & links. Happy dreaming. Marisa

[old] SimonB · Post by **[old] SimonB** » March 4th, 2005, 7:01 pm

Thanks again Paul. You have shown once again that you are the most consistently helpful person on this forum.

[old] gorow9 · Post by **[old] gorow9** » March 7th, 2005, 7:11 pm

Paul, Curious why do you suggest the macons over the hatchets? Just wondering. Simon, also take a look at the dolphin and zephyr at <a href='http://www.sculling.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.sculling.com/</a> I personally think the dolphin's a great boat very stable and pretty quick. It's also really responsive. Again good luck! ~Sarah

[old] NavigationHazard · Post by **[old] NavigationHazard** » March 7th, 2005, 8:02 pm

Simon, Arowma: Paul S is right: it's almost certainly worth your while to try to find a dealer who will let you demo various possibilities. Tom McGlinn at Chesapeake Rowing, for example, carries Hudson, Alden and Maas shells, and has a demo pond next to his warehouse in Rock Hall MD. I bought my Maas 24 there after test-driving it, as it were, against the other possibilities my 6'6"/ 270 frame allows. Way closer to you, Simon, the Gallos at Adirondack Rowing (Schroon Lake NY, I think), can arrange the same sort of thing. Of course, their season is a bit more constrained.... The Gallos also carry wherries and Adirondack guideboats -- something like rowboat/scull and canoe/scull crosses respectively, with the shapes of the former and the sliding seat/oars of the latter. Don't reject either of those out of hand. Formally they may not be shells, but you stroke them like a shell. And you can get them going pretty fast if you know what you're doing. And they're designed for the sort of river/lake touring you seem to have in mind.... Arowma: Several Adirondack-type boats (e.g. their Guideboat 18 and the Alden Appledore 19) can be rigged as singles or doubles, or as fixed-seat boats if you prefer that. You also can stow quite a bit of gear in them -- fishing poles and tackle boxes, for example, even tents. Heck, the Appledore 19 even has an optional sailing rig if you get tired of sculling. Though how anyone could ever do that beats me...

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » March 7th, 2005, 10:01 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(gorow9 @ Mar 7 2005, 03:11 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Paul, Curious why do you suggest the macons over the hatchets? Just wondering. ~Sarah </td></tr></table> Mostly for the superior feedback they provide, no disadvantage in speed, but a big advantage in learning how to use the tools properly. There are advantages to be had with some different blade shapes, but contrary to popular belief they will be slightly more difficult to handle, rather than allowing anyone to hack away at the water and feel like they are being productive. The manufacturers of such blades will say something like "The better you are, the more benefit you will gain.", which is not exactly good marketing, but it is starkly honest, and as it turns out to be, true. Far different from the opposite case, "The more you stink, the better these will be for you." All that remains is a choice we have to make, do we train to row well (very difficult) or do we continue to stink (happens effortlessly)? Oh, I should add, we all "stink", but we can continue to work toward stinking less.

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