2004 Us Indoor Rowing Team

[old] Canoeist · Post by **[old] Canoeist** » July 13th, 2004, 8:29 am

I just had a look at the qualification times for the US Indoor Rowing Team. <a href='http://www.concept2.com/rowing/racing/u ... qt2004.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.com/rowing/racing/u ... > I need a 6:03. When I turn 50 (In two years) I will still need to pull 6:16. When I turn 60, I will still have to pull under 6:30. Ouch! Good luck, somebody! Paul Flack

[old] SteveV · Post by **[old] SteveV** » July 13th, 2004, 11:48 am

Really tough qualifying times there. Looks like you might be paying your own way They seem to have odd age groups at the younger end 19-22 and 23-29, are they always like that ?

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » July 13th, 2004, 12:21 pm

Paul-- The 40s and 50s hwt times are still 10 seconds or so from the world record. The 50s lwt time is 6:30, _two_ seconds off the record. For the 40s hwts that would be 5:54; for the 50s hwts, 6:09. Of course, meeting the time doesn't necessarily get you on the team, either. Last year, I went 6 seconds under the 50s lwt qualifying time and broke the world record to boot, but this still wasn't good enough to make the team. And this year the 50s lwt qualifying time is _five seconds_ lower. I am the only 50s lwt who has ever rowed 6:30! Graham Watt seems about to join me, but he is not American. Dennish won the 2004 CRASH-Bs in the 50s lwts with a row of 6:39. Tough indeed. ranger

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » July 13th, 2004, 1:48 pm

Ranger, I never realised that had happened to you, was this last year? It does sound very harsh on you. Were you given an explanation behind the decision? Sir Pirate

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » July 14th, 2004, 9:04 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Sir Pirate @ Jul 13 2004, 12:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ranger, I never realised that had happened to you, was this last year? It does sound very harsh on you. Were you given an explanation behind the decision? Sir Pirate </td></tr></table> Pirate-- Yes, this was last year. No explanation. Team selection is entirely up to C2. There is no public statement of the criteria that determine selection (e.g., per cent of world record, as in the case of the British teams). I was the only male to break a world record in my trial. The trials were around the first of November. Three weeks later I broke the world record again at BIRC. I won my race at EIRC, too, by 12 seconds. I had to pay my way to get there, though. Ironically, at EIRC, the French officials didn't know that I was just racing for myself. On both the schedule of rowers and on the awards stand I was identified as a member of the USIRT. Pretty strange. I didn't say anything. I just went about my business. ranger

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » July 14th, 2004, 9:43 am

Ranger. That does seem very strange. You must feel bitter about all of this, if that is the case, will you be going for selection again this year, or just pay your own way again like last year. I know you said that you will be coming to B.I.R.C this year, what about the E.I.R.C in December? Will be a lot of backwards and forwards across the pond, B.I.R.C November & E.I.R.C in December. Sir Pirate

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » July 14th, 2004, 11:21 am

Pirate-- We'll see how things go. I did both last year. BIRC for sure this year. I don't know about EIRC and the USIRT. I am not bitter about last year's USIRT, just puzzled. If some rowers are being excluded from the team for unstated reasons, I think they should be told by C2 not to try out, that it would be a waste of their time and energy. I spent quite a bit of time last year training specifically for the trial (e.g., peaking at just that time), arranging to have the trial supervised by a USIRT official, traveling to a remote location (Detroit) to take the trial, and so forth. At EIRC last year, of the 12 members of the USIRT, two rowers didn't win and one didn't row. As I remember, I beat my qualification time by a bigger margin than three out of six male rowers who were selected. ranger

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » July 14th, 2004, 11:33 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jul 14 2004, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Pirate-- If some rowers are being excluded from the team for unstated reasons, I think they should be told by C2 not to try out, that it would be a waste of their time and energy.  </td></tr></table> Thats a good & fair comment Ranger. I for one look forward to seeing you at BIRC trying to lower your own World Record (complete with hat). Sir Pirate

[old] Canoeist · Post by **[old] Canoeist** » July 14th, 2004, 6:32 pm

Ranger, I hope that you are selected this year. Last year you were probably the most physically fit rower compared to your class. But you hadn't learned how to be a humble winner. Since the team is sponsored by Concept and not an independent sports body, what you say and how you act may influence the team selection. Last year at BIRC and at EIRC you proved that you could not only row well, but that you could represent Concept US. So far this year, you seem to have learned how to conduct yourself on the forum in a fashion expected of a top athlete - you give advice and answer questions about your training without alienating other rowers. Keep up the good work and you should be selected this year. Paul Flack

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » July 15th, 2004, 5:13 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>So far this year, you seem to have learned how to conduct yourself on the forum in a fashion expected of a top athlete - you give advice and answer questions about your training without alienating other rowers. </td></tr></table> Paul-- Sorry to say so, I guess, but I am the same person that I always was. I haven't changed a whit. Changing my basic personality would be pretty hard at do at close to 55 years old! I am not 15. This needs thought: Last year (and before), who acted in what way with what results on this forum is completely a matter of perspective and proportion, in-groups and out-groups, and many other matters. For the most part, it seems to me that the forum is not more well behaved now because I "give advice and answer questions about [my] training without alienating other rowers" but because most of the hooters and hollerers, the former "in group" on the forum, no longer post. Why? Because most of what they were hooting and hollering about just turned out to be wrong (not to mention mean-spirited), discouraging and disparaging remarks that proved to be just so much hot air. Excuse me for saying so, but I _always_ shared my training freely, openly, and enthusiastically with others. That it alienated a certain rowing in group with (very!) odd attitudes and wretchedly aggressive behavior to those less experienced but equally accomplished (in things athletic more generally), I think, was not at all the result of my sharing of information and excitement. As I said openly many times, I think this alienation was a result of _their_ inner demons, not mine. I also think that open recognition of such personal (and social) demons is very hard, and by and large, is still being avoided. I continue to train as I have always trained (jumping rope for hours, cross-training for many hours, doing long fartlek workouts (Zatopeks), etc.), talk as I have always talked (posting quite frequently and at length), act as I have always acted (independently, originally, often uniquely),and perform as I have always performed (pretty well). I don't see anything wrong with any of these behaviors so I don't see any reason to change. If this behavior makes me an unacceptable representative of C2 internationally, then I am indeed puzzled, but my conclusion is not that I need to change but that C2 needs to change. There is no reason to run the USIRT as an exclusive in-group that (first) ridicules and then ostracizes those with different backgrounds and styles of training. I think I have demonstrated (and continue to demonstrate) that my styles of training are pretty darn effective. And those who do not approach rowing as an in group run by certain fixed social hierarchies and received training dogma get along with me just fine. The problem with my relation to the USIRT is that, in terms of team membership, all of these things are not for me to decide. If C2 wants to exclude me from the team because of their own in-group behavior, then so be it. I am sorry to say so, but I am at a _total_ loss of what I should change about my behavior to make it socially acceptable to them. I am afraid that it is a little too much to ask me to be a different person (e.g., like the hooters and hollerers who no longer post here?) just because I am both an English professor (and therefore like talking and thinking) and an accomplished rower, trainer, and general athlete. Why? Both then and now, I think all of the hooting and hollering that was done was nothing at all be admired and nothing at all to recognize as an appropriate standard of behavior. I don't see any (good) reason to conform to it. ranger

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » July 15th, 2004, 4:45 pm

The USIRT is sponsored by, organized and paid for by C2. They can pick whomever they choose. It would be nice if we had some guidelines as to what factors are considered when making the choices. Apparently, it's not solely based on objective criteria such as your performance.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » July 18th, 2004, 7:35 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Coach Gus @ Jul 15 2004, 03:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> The USIRT is sponsored by, organized and paid for by C2. They can pick whomever they choose. It would be nice if we had some guidelines as to what factors are considered when making the choices. Apparently, it's not solely based on objective criteria such as your performance.  </td></tr></table> Coach-- Yes. They pay so they say. They don't need to give explanations. The USIRT is a pretty wretched misnomer, though. The team is the _Concept2_-USA indoor rowing team. It is like those company teams that enter canoeing races and the like; it isn't some sort of national team. Objectivity does not seem to be the point. ranger

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » July 18th, 2004, 9:04 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jul 18 2004, 11:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Objectivity does not seem to be the point. ranger  </td></tr></table> Marketing is the point, no illusions there. And with the number of perfectly excellent Model C's being replaced with Model D's, it apparently is a well executed 'point'. - Paul Smith

[old] Canoeist · Post by **[old] Canoeist** » July 19th, 2004, 9:54 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jul 18 2004, 11:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Objectivity does not seem to be the point. ranger </td></tr></table> Yes, Ranger, you have it figured out now! Remember that Jim McGoldrick narrowly missed the selection target in 2002, but was choosen to be on the Concept2 IRT. Jim went and was a fantastic representative for Concept by doing many press interviews about his past competitions in the Highland Games and his present competitions on the indoor rowing machine. Some sports award extra points for "style". I think the indoor rowing selection might add, or take away, a few bonus points for "character". Now that you know the "real" game, go to it. Cheers, Paul Flack

[old] Cran · Post by **[old] Cran** » July 19th, 2004, 10:04 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Now that you know the "real" game, go to it. </td></tr></table> I think you need to decide if playing the game is worth the cost... being true to yourself is more important than getting in a team. Hopefully you can do both, but that's not always possible.

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