Lowering Blood Pressure-exercise Vs Drugs?

[[old] grams]

Has anyone else gone through this drill?<br /><br />My doctor and I are about to increase my high blood pressure medicine. So I started tracking my bp to determine how erging affected my bp. <br /><br />Wow. After erging it is right where it should be, while on my rest days it is too high. I foundthe reason via a web search; when erging blood vessels dilate and blood gets routed to the muscles at a much greater rate. The result is an overall drop in pressure.<br /><br />Question: I erg every other day, so if I increase my bp medicine to adjust the bp for non-exercise days will it drop too low on exercise days? Does this mean I have to erg every day? Argh!<br /><br />grams

[[old] PaulS]

An Erg a day keeps the Dr. Away? <br /><br />What does your Dr. make of this? They probably have the best perspective. How long does the "exercise effect" last?

[[old] Yoda1]

grams,<br /><br />I had the same problem, but solved it by making sure that I did something of a phyical nature every day. Even though I only use the ERG about 3-4 times a week, I walk every day for a least an hour. I try to keep the pace up. That solved the problem. Might work for you.<br /><br />Good Luck,<br />Yoda

[[old] John Rupp]

Looking at the evidence and results shows that taking drugs to lower blood pressure is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS! For example, one of the several classes of blood pressure medications does so by diuretic action, i.e. dehydrating the body of water. The result of this can be heart failure! <br /><br />The taking of blood pressure medications not only does not decrease the death rates from heart disease, but has the opposite effect! The drug industry is the same industry that does the "tests" to determine whether their own medications work. Anyone who has been paying attention knows that their studies are most often flawed and biased, with their primary motivator to be selling more drugs, and not helping people to live longer.<br /><br />Dietary causes of high blood pressure include insulin resistance, blood flow resistance, and the sodium potassium ratio. The prime cause and also for diabetes is insulin resistance, brought about by excess fat intake and obesity, and blood sugar spiking, from intake of highly refined carbohydrates and sugar. <br /><br />Blood pressure is the result of blood volume times resistance. First of all you want a higher blood volume, and the solution is not to dehydrate all the water from your body! Rather, the resistance is caused by blood cell sludging, artery constricting hormones and platelets sticking together after high fat meals.<br /><br />There is nothing new about this as all these things have been known for a very long time and many books written about these mechanisms. However taking care of yourself doesn't make the big bucks for the doctors and drug lords!<br /><br />It is every person's choice as to which of these is the most important, and then live accordingly to your wishes and beliefs.

[[old] afolpe]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Nov 15 2005, 07:53 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 15 2005, 07:53 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Looking at the evidence and results shows that taking drugs to lower blood pressure is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!  For example, one of the several classes of blood pressure medications does so by diuretic action, i.e. dehydrating the body of water.  The result of this can be heart failure!  <br /><br />The taking of blood pressure medications not only does not decrease the death rates from heart disease, but has the opposite effect!  The drug industry is the same industry that does the "tests" to determine whether their own medications work.  Anyone who has been paying attention knows that their studies are most often flawed and biased, with their primary motivator to be selling more drugs, and not helping people to live longer.<br /><br />Dietary causes of high blood pressure include insulin resistance, blood flow resistance, and the sodium potassium ratio.  The prime cause and also for diabetes is insulin resistance, brought about by excess fat intake and obesity, and blood sugar spiking, from intake of highly refined carbohydrates and sugar.  <br /><br />Blood pressure is the result of blood volume times resistance.  First of all you want a higher blood volume, and the solution is not to dehydrate all the water from your body!  Rather, the resistance is caused by blood cell sludging, artery constricting hormones and platelets sticking together after high fat meals.<br /><br />There is nothing new about this as all these things have been known for a very long time and many books written about these mechanisms.  However taking care of yourself doesn't make the big bucks for the doctors and drug lords!<br /><br />It is every person's choice as to which of these is the most important, and then live accordingly to your wishes and beliefs. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br /><br />What's truly amazing is not simply the depth of your ignorance, but also the breadth.<br /><br />Andrew<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

Yeah, I'm sure you are much worse than I think.<br /><br />But this much I do know -- <br /><br />Don't trust any idiot doctor who puts profits before people.

[[old] afolpe]

<!--QuoteBegin-grams+Nov 15 2005, 05:41 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(grams @ Nov 15 2005, 05:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Has anyone else gone through this drill?<br /><br />My doctor and I are about to increase my high blood pressure medicine. So I started tracking my bp to determine how erging affected my bp. <br /><br />Wow. After erging it is right where it should be, while on my rest days it is too high. I foundthe reason via a web search; when erging blood vessels dilate and blood gets routed to the muscles at a much greater rate. The result is an overall  drop in pressure.<br /><br />Question: I erg every other day, so if I increase my bp medicine to adjust the bp for non-exercise days will it drop too low on exercise days? Does this mean I have to erg every day? Argh!<br /><br />grams <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Back to the question at hand. Your body makes a strong effort to maintain blood pressure. In some people, it is elevated for genetic reasons, rather than simply diet/obesity/salt intake. You may fall in that group. Many extremely fit athletes have elevated blood pressure. Basically, you can lower blood pressure pharmacologically by lowering peripheral resistance, with things like ACE inhibitors, or decreasing cardiac output, by lowering stroke volume (diuretics and beta-adrenergic blockers). In general, ACE inhibitors are extremely well tolerated by athletes, even very serious ones. You might inquire about those if you are not on them. You may notice an increase in your pulse at various paces, as your peripheral resistance is lowered, your stroke volume is relatively unchanged, and your body needs to maintain cardiac output by increasing heart rate (cardiac output = stroke volume x heart rate). You almost certainly want to stay away from diuretics, as it is tough enough to stay well hydrated when you erg, and beta-blockers, as they limit the increase in pulse you need to work hard. Your body will maintain its blood pressure at all costs- don't worry about it getting too low, unless you start to have dizzy spells or the like.<br /><br />andrew

[[old] grams]

In my case it's genetic - on both sides of the family. I'm on a low dose ACE inhibitor with a diuretic now. <br />On my present dose my numbers are:<br /> before erging 148/95 pulse 59<br /> for up to 3 hours after after erging: 120/74 pulse 80<br /> after that it shoots right back up again.<br /><br />This website explains it all: <a href='http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/Pressurelink.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/Pre ... htm</a><br /><br />For some folks the residual effect of exercise lasts all day, but not for me. Yes, I do some exercise most every day. Today is raking leaves.<br /><br />Solution (plan A?): I will erg earlier in the morning, and take my pill a couple of hours afterward. We will see about the fainting-I have had it happen before, mostly at night if I get up, so taking the pill at night probably isn't a good idea.<br /><br />I plan to give this a try, chart the results, and talk with my Dr after about a week of the new regime.<br /><br />Charting my numbers this week turned out to be revealing as I had always assumed that bp went up while exercising, not down. And why sometimes my numbers looked good at the doctors office and why sometimes they were terrible. <br /><br />If you have nothing better to do I suggest you track yours for a few days and see what your body is doing.<br /><br />John, in my forum profile you are designated as 'ignored'. So your forum posts aren't displayed for me. Feel free to designate me as 'ignored' in your profile.<br /><br />grams<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Nov 15 2005, 04:53 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 15 2005, 04:53 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It is every person's choice as to which of these is the most important, and then live accordingly to your wishes and beliefs.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />If there were no fools, there would be very few doctors. <br />

[[old] ljwagner]

John, and co.<br /><br />A doctor friend, with whom I exchange exercise ideas and no money (he has written a book), tells me something not seen here.<br /><br />When you are dehydrated, your blood viscosity is increased, so your BP is up. Part of the wake up process every morning is loss of water through respiration over night, causing blood viscosity increase, and increased blood pressure. <br /><br />So have a glass of water when you wake up in the morning. You have not had one in 8 hours or so.<br /><br />Now if we could just measure our sodium levels, to know how to keep the water balance just right ...<br /><br />My wife's BP is 90/66. She feels a bit lethargic sometimes. A salty snack perks it up to 96 / 70, and she feels great. Too much, and she is 115/80, and has headaches. <br /><br />If exercise prevents the need for drugs, and you already erg 3-4 times a week, add another day. How high is it the off days ?

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+May 24 2004, 04:26 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ May 24 2004, 04:26 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->since cardiac output is stroke volume X heart rate, the training effect of increased stroke volume results in a lowered heart rate for the same cardiac output, and increases one's potential when the heart rate is the same.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... &#entry197' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... 197</a><br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-afolpe+Nov 15 2005, 05:51 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(afolpe @ Nov 15 2005, 05:51 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You may notice an increase in your pulse at various paces, as your peripheral resistance is lowered, your stroke volume is relatively unchanged, and your body needs to maintain cardiac output by increasing heart rate (cardiac output = stroke volume x heart rate). [right] </td></tr></table><br />Did you think you snuck that by me, Andrew? <br /><br />PHYSIOLOGY 101<br /><br />(1) As your peripherial resistance is lowered, then your stroke volume should go UP, not stay relatively unchanged.<br /><br />(2) As your peripherial resistance is lowered and your stroke volume goes up, your heart rate would be LOWER for the same cardiac output.<br /><br />(3) If your stroke volume is the same, and your cardiac output is the same, then your heart rate is the same -- see the above formula!

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-afolpe+Nov 15 2005, 05:39 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(afolpe @ Nov 15 2005, 05:39 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What's truly amazing is not simply the depth of your ignorance, but also the breadth.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />If you're going to copy me 18 months later at least get it right. <br />

[[old] drtango]

As a long time lurker, and one of those money-grubbing medicos who's working hard to diminish the health of my patients, I finally feel the need to post.<br /><br />Exercise, diet, weight control and sensible sodium restriction are the cornerstones of treating hypertension. I agree that some sort of daily movement is key, the more vigorous the better. Weight loss, even 5 pounds, can also lower blood pressure dramatically.<br /><br />I agree that ACE inhibitors are the best Rx for athletes, though I've seen plenty of patients who notice breathing difficulties on these drugs, often a dry cough or "dry throat". ARB's, cousins of the ACE class, don't cause this effect and are a great second choice. ACE's and ARB's really should not cause "low" BP resulting in dizziness or fainting, so I suspect the diuretic is the culprit in Gram's case.<br /><br />Grams, obviously work with your MD, but I might suggest advancing the ACE dose a bit, losing the diuretic (this combo can certainly result in a "too low" BP with even the mildest dehydration) while trying to lose a few pounds and exercising in some fashion daily. Ignoring certain posts is also an excellent strategy.<br /><br />Funny how Americans are getting fatter and more sedentary yet heart disease and stroke rates are falling---must be the clean air and water, not modern medicine! Not funny is the fact that most Primary Care MD's make less hourly than a Union plumber, but I digress....<br /><br />JT

[[old] Terry S]

Very helpful on the topic at hand, drtango. Thanks.<br /><br />Your observations on selective reading of the posts is well-taken. I'm hopeful you'll have more to say now that your oar is in the water.<br /><br />Erg on.<br /><br />TS

[[old] grams]

Hi drtango,<br /><br />Thanks for the pointers. I have done the things I can aside from drugs already. My diet is mostly salads and some complex carbs. One meal a day on erg days and often one or m2 meals on rest days. The fats are olive oil and avacados. I even grow my own veg and make my own bread. I lost about 30 pounds a couple of years ago when I started erging, and am getting back to lightweight again after a long vacation in Oz. <br /><br />Your point about dry throat is good. I started on a higher statin dose last week. Not a higher diuretic though. Anyhow I have had a dry throat. I thought I caught a cold from the grandkids. That is something for me to discuss with my md. <br /><br />Per his advice I haven't been obsessing over the numbers, I will do the drill again in a few weeks after my system has adjusted to the new bp dose and adding a Lovostatin pill to the mix. <br /><br />I get plenty of exercise, as I am an endurance erger. I likethe long sessions and erg every other day so the holiday challenge is providing plenty of opportunities for me.<br /><br />grams 5' 4" 140 lbs 63 years<br />