Concept2 Forum

I was wondering if anyone out there has increased their HDL cholesterol #s through rowing(or other intense aerobic activity)? If so what improvement have you seen and how much do you row? if you think other lifestyle changes have had an impact on the improvement please state also., but I am primarily interested in increased physical activity....<br /><br />P.S....title should read "Cholesterol #s" not 3s....

You should look at your total cholesterol reading #1.<br /><br />80% of the population of the world has a total cholesterol below 150, with the majority far below that.<br /><br />If you have a high total cholesterol, then the ratios wouldn't mean anything. Even if they were "in balance", your cholesterol would still be way too high and you would be fooling yourself to think that was "okay".<br /><br />First get your total cholesterol below 150 or 125, then you can play around with the ratios if you want.<br />

Gaffano,<br /><br />This is a bit of a ramble - have a read and see if there is anything useful for you<br /><br />Dont know how my 8.7 equates to your 150<br /><br />I am starting to question the conventional hysteria over cholesterol levels.<br /><br />Significant diet changes didnt affect my high cholesterol.<br /><br />However a couple of years ago I reduced my cholesterol count from 8.7 to 4.something after allowing doctors to convince me that I had a problem and I started enthusiastically erging and using statins.<br /><br />Have now stopped using statins (my Mum reckons they are now banned in some countries). <br /><br />For what its worth, [Edited 15/9 by Bill] in 2002 I was pulling 2ks 7:40's 5ks 21:somethings 10k 42 - 43ish with HRS in the high 160's whilst doctors at work reckoned I was a heart attack waiting to happen, (46yo 94kg male)[End edits]<br /><br />Although cholesterol is now lower I dont feel much different, but the doctors are happier. Curiously, when I challenge them for hard facts, graphs, papers etc proving the correlation between cholesterol and health problems they are not able to readily produce them. <br /><br />High cholesterol = BAD is something that seems to have been drummed in and universally accepted but I am not sure its that simple.<br /><br />Not quite a straight reply to your question however I am interested in the general cholesterol topic. Will let you know if simply maintaining the erging keeps me low and how it affects my ratios.

There is a 98% correlation between total cholesterol, smoking, age, and deaths from heart disease.

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Sep 10 2005, 07:35 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Sep 10 2005, 07:35 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is a 98% correlation between total cholesterol, smoking, age, and deaths from heart disease. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John, Please explain your apparent mutivariate analysis by which you came to that conclusion. (It appears to be a bit over-reaching)<br /><br />OTOH - There is a 100% positive correlation between living and dying. <br /><br />Fortuantely correlation and causal relationships are different.

Gaffano, Consider looking at the following, which gives a concise explanation of the mechanism by which elevated HDL is a benefit to the body; <a href='http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1061.htm' target='_blank'>Elevated HDL</a>. I found this in searching for a couple journal articles about which I'd written a post a couple years ago on the forum (med. research journal articles describing studies of aerobic exercise lowering overall total cholesterol levels while raising HDL levels - found a couple new studies showing this, too). <br /><br />Any way, my personal experience is that regular erging correlates with increasing HDL (now to a point where my HDL level is slightly higher than my LDL, 115vs113). The increase in HDL appeared when I began to train on the erg year round at least 45 min/day, rather than just during the winter. Looking at old data from physicals, HDL increased around 35 pts, LDL not much change.<br /><br />Cheers, Mary P.

<!--QuoteBegin-gaffano+Sep 10 2005, 11:25 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gaffano @ Sep 10 2005, 11:25 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was wondering if anyone out there has increased their HDL cholesterol #s through rowing(or other intense aerobic activity)? If so what improvement have you seen and how much do you row? if you think other lifestyle changes have had an impact on the improvement please state also., but I am primarily interested in increased physical activity....<br /><br />P.S....title should read "Cholesterol #s" not 3s.... <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Gaffano,<br /><br />Hello, I found some records - units are mmol/Litre<br /><br /> Feb 2000 June 2003<br />Total 8.7 4.9<br />HDL 1.12 1.32<br />LDL 7.0 3.35<br />Ratio 6.3 2.5<br /><br />Cant find more recent records, will post when they turn up as they will be more erg influenced.<br /><br />Have checked diaries, serious gym between 2000 and late 2002 started focussing more on erg in late 2002 to present. Year ending June 03 would have been just over 1 million metres.<br /><br />Not sure how much to attribute to general gym / erging and medication - however am off medicine now so If I stay down it will be due to erg.<br /><br />Will find out in a few months when I do next test<br /><br />I realise that this contradicts my first post and apologise for confusing the years, will modify first post.<br /><br /><br />Bill

In the USA, cholesterol is measured in mg/dL, hence the 150 number that John was using. In other countries, Canada I know for sure, who use SI measurments, the cholesterol, blood sugars and such are measured in mmoL/L, hence the lower numbers. I don't know if there is a conversion factor or not with them. When I moved to the US, I had some difficulty changing over as the values that I had previously memorized as too high and so forth could be used. <br /><br />I don't know where the stats come from, but the basic belief I have heard and come across is that you want your total cholesterol as low as you can, Triglycerides lower and your HDL high will help you. Usually I have not seen a high HDL with a high total cholesterol. Just based on my observations. Take it for what it is worth. For statistics I defer to Mr. Rupp.<br /><br />Darren<br /><br />btw, I seem to recall a story on the msnbc web site about serious (read olympic) rowers whose cholesterol number took a huge jump when they stopped training. I saw the articly sometime last year. I will see if I can find it again.

Nightrower - to convert between the SI/metric units of mmol/L and the units used in the US for cholesterol concentrations (in mg/dL), multiply or divide by 39 --<br /><br />mmol/L x 39 = mg/dL (mg/dL)/39 = mmol/L<br /><br />This works as masses of compound (in grams) can be converted to amounts (in moles) by dividing by the compound's molar mass (mass of 1 mole). The molar mass of cholesterol (C<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>27</span>H<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>46</span>O) is 386.7, which could be rounded to 390 (hence the factor of 39 in the above coversions, once the volume units of liters and deciliters are reconciled).<br /><br />And yeah, the LDL concentration is almost always quite a bit higher than the HDL -- which explains the doctor's surprise at my HDL reading (which has been roughly equal to LDL for several readings). Exercise is a good thing!<br />Mary P.<br />

Mary..you are lucky..HDL is usually naturally higher in women....my family has a history of CV disease...me (male) and my brother both have low HDL (35-45) high lDL (160s)..my sister has the same LDL but her HDL is in the 80s with no excersise...<br /><br />I started this thread because I wanted to see if there are any others out there like me who are trying to raise their HDL with excercise( as experts recommend). MY HDL in 1998 was 48. I was 27, 175pds, going to the gym 4-5/wk, doing spinning classes and weightlifting.<br />I had my lipids tested 2 months ago after erging 2-3x/wk 5000 for 3 months and road cycling 50-100 miles a week(75-85% MHR), no lifting, and my HDL went down to 36. Weight is now 195, still alcohol intake......I am trying to figure why it went down? weight? intensity of aerobic excericise? lack of weight lifting? diet?<br /><br />It is frustrating when you are following the program but going backwards......<br />

Gaffano,<br /><br />As you said, you have heredity on your side in a bad way. Sometimes that happens, although it is frustrating. To aid in lowering LDL and triglycerides ( I don't think you told us what they were) you could consider lowering you intake of alcohol and looking at the amount of simple carbs you are eating (bread, pasta and so forth). My triglycerides were high and my doctor told me to lower my intake of simple carbs, so I stopped eating most breads, pasta, and mashed potatoes. My triglycerides dropped a lot in the span of 6 months, without exercise. I ended up eating slightly more fatty stuff and my LDL went up a bit, to about 140ish I think. I was surprised at how well that worked to cut out the simple carbs.<br /><br />As you said though, sometimes if heredity is not on your team, you fight an uphill battle. I worked with someone who exercised all the time, whitewater rafting, biking, running and such. He could not get his total cholesterol down and was so frustrated! To look at him you would never guess his was high (like the commercials where you see the guys walking around and their cholesterol numbers are posted on their bellies). <br /><br />My only suggestion is to look at dietary modification that you can. In some communities you can see a dietician/nutritionist to help you with that. Sometimes insurance will cover, most times it won't. I don't miss all the carbs. Even with rowing and so forth, I find that I don't need to eat a lot of carbs. I am not riding the Tour de France! Nothing I do will drain me so much that I need to take extra carbs, or so has been my experience thus far. Perhaps if I end up doing much longer rows, into the half marathon or full marathon duration/length I will feel different.<br /><br />Good luck<br /><br />Darren

<!--QuoteBegin-NightRower+Sep 23 2005, 11:31 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NightRower @ Sep 23 2005, 11:31 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gaffano,<br /><br />As you said, you have heredity on your side in a bad way. Sometimes that happens, although it is frustrating. To aid in lowering LDL and triglycerides ( I don't think you told  us what they were) you could consider lowering you intake of alcohol and looking at the amount of simple carbs you are eating (bread, pasta and so forth). My triglycerides were high and my doctor told me to lower my intake of simple carbs, so I stopped eating most breads, pasta, and mashed potatoes. My triglycerides dropped a lot in the span of 6 months, without exercise. I ended up eating slightly more fatty stuff and my LDL went up a bit, to about 140ish I think. I was surprised at how well that worked to cut out the simple carbs.<br /><br />As you said though, sometimes if heredity is not on your team, you fight an uphill battle. I worked with someone who exercised all the time, whitewater rafting, biking, running and such. He could not get his total cholesterol down and was so frustrated! To look at him you would never guess his was high (like the commercials where you see the guys walking around and their cholesterol numbers are posted on their bellies). <br /><br />My only suggestion is to look at dietary modification that you can. In some communities you can see a dietician/nutritionist to help you with that. Sometimes insurance will cover, most times it won't. I don't miss all the carbs. Even with rowing and so forth, I find that I don't need to eat a lot of carbs. I am not riding the Tour de France! Nothing I do will drain me so much that I need to take extra carbs, or so has been my experience thus far. Perhaps if I end up doing much longer rows, into the half marathon or full marathon duration/length I will feel different.<br /><br />Good luck<br /><br />Darren <br /> </td></tr></table><br />

<!--QuoteBegin-gaffano+Sep 23 2005, 09:24 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gaffano @ Sep 23 2005, 09:24 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />......I am trying to figure why it went down? weight? intensity of aerobic excericise? lack of weight lifting? diet?<br /><br />It is frustrating when you are following the program but going backwards......<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hello,<br /><br />I have heard of an alternative viewpoint regarding cholesterol issues - that is<br /><br />Cholesterol issues can be a symptom of a malfunction in the body's internal organs (probably liver) rather than a function of your diet - if this is the case the malfunction can be passed on (hereditary) and changes in diet and exercise have less beneficial impact.<br /><br />It may be worth your while investigating this idea - I do not know enough about it to say anything else other than "I've heard of it"<br /><br />Bil

New cholesterol report as of yesterday:<br /><br />HDL 105 <br />LDL 124<br />T 58<br />Total 241<br /><br />also BP 116/72<br />RHR 48<br />non smoker<br /><br />I row, cycle, hike or xc ski (depending on season) about 7 - 11 hours per week.<br /><br />Although the total score is well above what is considered healthy, my doctor called these results "Great!". It was a matter of the HDL being so high and having no other high risk factors.<br /><br />I heard another doctor say, about the relative importance of high HDL, that he isn't concerned about heart disease for a patient until the patient's age exceeds his HDL.

I recently finished reading the best book I've ever read on nutrition. It's called "The China Study." It's written by someone who has been involved with research for over 40 years and who chaired the largest nutritional study ever done. The book looks at the role of nutrition and disease, including heart disease, cancer, obesity, vision problems and the list goes on. My wife thought the book was a bit dry, but I believe you can pick up a lot of useful information on cholesterol and many other issues. I won't spoil it by giving away his conclusions. Happy reading. John.