Concept2 Forum

Hi, all last term as Novice rower my erg moved backwards along the wooden floor whilst I rowed (500/750/1K) no matter what I did! In the end I use to have to have large weights put behind the ergs and have several people standing behind me stopping it moving. All Xmas I worked hard on my technique (which I would say is fairly sound) and fitness and the problem seemed to have disappeared. Came back to Uni, did a 2K, 5x500m and 2x20min rows (latter at a stroke rate of 20) and no problem.<br /><br />However, on wed night we did 5x500m and the problem returned!!!! My technique was the same as ever and I was driving with my legs and keeping my arms straight until my knees were down. Likewise my back was strong and straight and I was doing "legs, body, arms". My coach was rowing with me at the time and said he couldn't see anything obvious suggesting why it moves (my fellow crew member said maybe I slam into backstops?!) and said that he'd be more concerned if the erg was moving forwards, suggesting I slammed into frontstops.<br /><br />What could be causing the erg to literally move about 2metres across the floor (I'm being serious, it does move that much!) and what can I do to prevent it happening? I find it really hard to concentrate on my splits etc when I'm literally sliding across the floor. Rowing on water is soooo much easier!

<!--QuoteBegin-Hoofbeat+Feb 4 2005, 02:08 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Hoofbeat @ Feb 4 2005, 02:08 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi, all last term as Novice rower my erg moved backwards along the wooden floor whilst I rowed (500/750/1K) no matter what I did!  In the end I use to have to have large weights put behind the ergs and have several people standing behind me stopping it moving.  All Xmas I worked hard on my technique (which I would say is fairly sound) and fitness and the problem seemed to have disappeared.  Came back to Uni, did a 2K, 5x500m and 2x20min rows (latter at a stroke rate of 20) and no problem.<br /><br />However, on wed night we did 5x500m and the problem returned!!!!  My technique was the same as ever and I was driving with my legs and keeping my arms straight until my knees were down.  Likewise my back was strong and straight and I was doing "legs, body, arms".  My coach was rowing with me at the time and said he couldn't see anything obvious suggesting why it moves (my fellow crew member said maybe I slam into backstops?!) and said that he'd be more concerned if the erg was moving forwards, suggesting I slammed into frontstops.<br /><br />What could be causing the erg to literally move about 2metres across the floor (I'm being serious, it does move that much!) and what can I do to prevent it happening?  I find it really hard to concentrate on my splits etc when I'm literally sliding across the floor.  Rowing on water is soooo much easier! <br /> </td></tr></table><br />

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What could be causing the erg to literally move about 2metres across the floor (I'm being serious, it does move that much!) and what can I do to prevent it happening? </td></tr></table> <br /><br />Does going strapless solve the problem?<br /><br />Byron

Erg slip: basically you're working too hard, and with lousy technique. Let's have a smoother and more rounded stroke, with a reasonable rating and less effort wasted on charging up and down and more on pulling the chain. Not all your fault of course, it happens because the stick and slip coefficients of friction between the erg feet and wooden floors are low, but this shows up bad technique, it means you are applying inertial forces to the machine and not pulling. You can see these effects by moving quickly up and down the slide without holding the handle.<br /><br />When the chain's slack, the only connection between you and the erg that can transmit horizontal forces and so move the machine, is between feet and stretcher. Only you can provide those forces, then what happens has been described by Sir Isaac.<br /><br />If you move astern (the way you're looking), it's because the catch on the erg is sloppy and you're trying to take a better one than is actually possible. Very low dfs would acccentuate this, because you have to shove off hard and it takes time to catch up with the flywheel. During that time your leg shove moves the erg, which is presumably lighter than you are. If you bum-shove, it gets worse. Use your shoulders early, so that the movement of your CoM is minimum before the chain tightens. A smoother catch solves it.<br /><br />If you move ahead (to the wall behind you) you're not using your arms before the finish but pulling yourself hard forward with the straps. Use your arms hard at the finish.<br /><br />When I want to move the erg but can't be bothered to get off, I do one of the above. Not yet found a good way to move it sideways.

Hey JamesG,<br /><br />What does 3km/hr freestyle in your signature mean ?<br /><br />Bill

<!--QuoteBegin-Byron Drachman+Feb 4 2005, 04:18 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Byron Drachman @ Feb 4 2005, 04:18 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What could be causing the erg to literally move about 2metres across the floor (I'm being serious, it does move that much!) and what can I do to prevent it happening? </td></tr></table><br /><br />Does going strapless solve the problem?<br /><br />Byron <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If you are moving the erg backwards i.e in the direction your back is facing then this is probably because you are using the straps too much (I am assuming you do not travel so far each stroke as to ht the backstop on the machine?).<br /><br />This may explain why your coach can see no fault in the actual technique as the movements are all there as they should be but you are moving in an inefficient way.<br /><br />There are several very good replies on other threads about strapless rowing that explain this far better than I can be basically the handle converts the drive with the feet into moving the flywheel via the handle. So, the aim is you come to a stop (very briefly) beacuse all the energy from the leg drive has been transferred via the handle. If this has happened then you do not need the straps to apply any restraining effect. However, if you are having to use them to stop/brake the actual drive then the technique is inefficent as not all of the energy from the driv is transferred to the flywheel.<br /><br />The other reason could be that you are using the straps to pull you into the recovery? Again, if you have got the drive right then this should not happen as once you come to the point where the motion one way is exactly equal to the effort applied by the handle you are stationary and so should be able to start the reach for the recovery without needing the straps to pull you. As James says you need to ensure the arms are working hard enough. <br /><br />The stroke may look fine so try rowing strapless as then you may get a much better feel for what you are actually doing. I would approach this with care if you have not done it before. If there is a problem because of having to use the straps and you apply your normal drive then it will be you, not the erg, that goes across the room. Start steady, low spm and easy drive, to get a feel for it and then start to build steady strapless rows into the training. (I tend to do 5k warm ups and 60 min steady rows strapless).<br /><br />You should not race strapless but applying it to some of your training may help correct the problem. Also, remember that at the moment the effort that moves the erg is wasted effort because those meters do not count! If you can make the stroke more efficient by applying this energy to the flywheel then you should also improve you times. <br /><br />If you try strapless then it will be good if you can feedback on the results.<br /><br />Neil

Bill<br />Swimming I can do 3 km/h, just. Half the speed it takes to get in a 1500m final.

Thanks guys for all the tips. Firstly, I don't think the drag is too much of a problem; it was set around 130 when I did the 500m sprints and all Christmas I'd been using a drag of only 100 (the poor machine was very old and that was the max you could get!). Also, realistically my rating wasn't particularly high (30/32) and even when I did my first sprint at 37 (damn the girl next to me going so fast and pushing me out of my rhythm!) the erg didn't actually move as much as it did later at lower ratings (perhaps I was more tired and my techniqued worsened?). I think rowing strapless would really help and possibly even explains why the problem has recurred. Over the Xmas holidays I was just doing my own erg training (ie. as we were Novices coach said "just make sure you do some erging over the xmas) and I read several posts on here about the benefit of rowing strapless so I always included it in my warm-up. I think you're definitely right that I'm pulling on the straps to break and thus move the entire erg as when I first tried strapless rowing I use to nearly fall off the back of the machine! However, since coming back to Uni we only erg twice a week (I'm a water rower) and we are told what we have to do each session so I haven't really rowed strapless since coming back and thus I've probably got into bad habits.<br /><br />When I next try I'll force myself to row strapless before hand (I will just tell coach, that I need to work on my technique before we start the official 'training session') and I'll try and report back on my findings. I'll also try and get a nice smooth catch!<br /><br />Anyways, g2g have river outing in 15mins!

You are rushing the slide. Any boat rower could show you what that means. You need to recover (slide forward) slower. In a boat you would be defeating yourself by making your boat go momentarily backwards during every stroke at the return before you bury your blade the next stroke. Watch the video that C2 sends out for free.<br /><br />Yes, going strapless would probably keep you from pulling your self forward instead of reaching forward. Then you will acheive "erging zen".<br /><br />good luck.

Rowing strapless will not help you to learn to row with the straps.<br /><br />Basically focus on attentuating your use of the straps, i.e. make sure you are finished with the drive, then use a very EVEN pressure on the straps for recovery.<br /><br />This means having a very LIGHT touch at the start of recovery, and the same very LIGHT touch all the way through.<br /><br />You can actually rate very high this way.<br /><br />Whereas you could use a hard pressure at the start of recovery and rate low, i.e. rushing the recovery.<br /><br />This doesn't depend on stroke rate, but rather the proper use and attenuation of the straps.

Have you tried placing a non slip rubber mat under the ERG?

Thanks for yet more replies <br /><br />Trying to deal with them roughly in order:<br /><br />1. I've tried making sure that when I warm-up on the erg before out sessions I row without straps. I personally do find this helps as with the first couple of strokes I always nearly fly off the erg backwards as I don't stop myself and am kidding myself that the straps will stop me, but I quickly correct myself and thus last week the erg moved only slightly in my last few sprints, which was clearly because I was tiring and my technique was suffering.<br /><br />2. As a water-rower I appreciate the effect that rushing the slide has. However, I don't really believe this is too much of a problem as I always make sure that I have some pressure on my footplates as I come forward thus stopping myself from rushing the slide and my coach hasn't commented that I rush the slide in particular. Additionally, I would have thought that this would cause the erg to move forwards slightly rather than backwards (that's what we were told anyways).<br /><br />3. I also think that when I'm driving off the footplate, I'm not using my whole foot to push off the footplate, but rather am pushing too much with my toes and then slamming my heels down - could this be the problem?<br /><br />4. I'll try and make sure I stay 'light' on the straps during the recovery<br /><br />5. I don't think a non-slip mat would really help as I'm the only one who makes the erg move and no-one else in my crew has the same problem! lol<br /><br />Thanks once again!