Hungry - Protien Shake Thoughts?

[old] SimonB · Post by **[old] SimonB** » December 12th, 2004, 6:13 pm

Hi Having started on doing 10K a day (various intensities) for the xmas challenge, I am finding that I am hungry all the time.... Yeah I know the obvious answer is EAT MORE !!! I plan to continue with this level of activity indefinately. I seem to be eating plenty of carbs, fats and protein. I am not on a weight control diet, but could do to lose a few pounds. (5'9, 165Lbs). I am also vegaterian (no red/white meat/fish of any kind). I was in the supermarket today and noticed they now sell soy protein shakes next to the body builder stuff (which I always ignore). Does anyone have experience of using protein shakes (Soy or not), waste of money or helpful. Have have you combated the hunger? Thanks for the advice. S.

[old] Roland Baltutis · Post by **[old] Roland Baltutis** » December 12th, 2004, 10:39 pm

Simon, When you are constantly hungry, what does your body crave for? Carbos, protein or something sweet. If you are doing longer workouts then just fill yourself up on wholegrain cerials, bread and fruit. That should usually work. If you are still hungry, as you are vegaterian, perhaps you are not getting enough protein in your diet. Protein supplements would then be helpful and not a waste of money. Don't bother with the Soy, go for the Whey protein products. They come in many different forms. It all depend on what you really want to do with your training and how much money you are willing to spend. And..... did you know.............that vegaterians respond really well to Creatine supplements? You'd be surprised at the initial performance results. Keep it smooth, keep it relaxed Roland Baltutis

[old] brianric · Post by **[old] brianric** » December 12th, 2004, 11:20 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Roland Baltutis @ Dec 12 2004, 09:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Don't bother with the Soy, go for the Whey protein products.  </td></tr></table> Why the bias against soy?

[old] SimonB · Post by **[old] SimonB** » December 12th, 2004, 11:26 pm

Thanks for the advice Roland I find I am not really craving any specific type of food. It's the time between eating and hunger that is less (alot less) than usual. I've started eating more fat than usual (nuts) but don't want to increase this beyond a sensible fat intake level. Cereals and bread and fruit have always played a large part of my diet as well as plant proteins. I have never had to resort to any kind of supplement in my 25 years of vegetarian healthy lifestyle and exercise regime Maybe I'm getting old Anyone else have thoughts on food supplements? (any fellow vegetarians out there) Thanks S.

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » December 13th, 2004, 2:59 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Why the bias against soy? </td></tr></table> Soy stinks. Especially if you're male.... Why? read this: <a href='http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do; ... cle=185soy' target='_blank'>http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do; ... r> Make sure to read the links to the other articles in the link I just posted. Those three articles make a pretty convincing case why men should avoid soy like the plague. I personally think you shortchange your athletic performance by going vegeterian. You need protein for muscular growth and recovery.... But if that's your choice - I highly recommend you try EAS Myoplex protein shakes - best tasting, highest quality. You can get them cheap on the internet (especially ebay) - just don't go to GNC - you'll get ripped off.

[old] drkcgoh · Post by **[old] drkcgoh** » December 13th, 2004, 3:44 pm

The oestrogen content in soy is so low that it will take many gallons of it (beyond the limit of human consumption) to show any effect even on women. A few years ago, medical personnel in a certain region were taking daily low doses of oestrogen itself (in the same manner as low dose aspirin to prevent heart attacks) to prevent the inevitable apperance of prostate cancer that strikes all men as they reach old age. In fact the recognized tratment of prostate cancer is the suppression of testosterone, either by medical (thru the use of powerfel anti-testosterone drugs), or surgical castration. So, the daily ingestion of soy won't be a bad idea at all. In a hospital I know, a large jug of soy milk is given to all the senior staff every morning, and yet the number of macho men boasting strings of women they have liasons with is as large as everywhere else. KC63

[old] michael · Post by **[old] michael** » December 13th, 2004, 5:36 pm

SimonB: I'm a vegetarian myself, been that way since the summer of '99. Congratulations on making a lifelong commitment to a vegetarian lifestyle. I'm sure that over the years you've heard all the misconceptions about how a vegetarian diet is lacking in essential nutrients, protein, etc. As for me, I've had better success at fat burning and muscle development since maintaining a predominantly vegan dietary regimen than I ever did as an omnivore. Worked quite well for Steve Reeves (Hercules), Carl Lewis and Jack la Lanne, last time I checked. I would recommend that you avoid the soy protein shakes that are available through outlets like GNC. They are overpriced and generally use soy protein isolate, which means that not all of the valuable phytoestrogens and isoflavones are present. Instead, purchase a soymilk maker and will save yourself alot of money and provide your body with a complete protein along with all of the phyto-nutrients contained in soybeans. Blend your soymilk with a fruit of your choice, e.g. bananas or blueberries. Add freshly ground flax seed and unprocessed oats and use either stevia or xylitol as a sweetener. This is far superior to what a pill/powder vitamin store can offer you, at much lower cost.

[old] SimonB · Post by **[old] SimonB** » December 13th, 2004, 9:39 pm

Hi Michael Nice to meet another vegetarian. I've been a vegetarian since I was 15. I am now 39 and have had a active lifestyle for all those years. Apart from a bad arm break (from a mountain bike accident ) in 2002 I have consistently been active. The only difference now is I find my self doing longer more endurance exercise and the rowing times are getting longer. I use to row just 20 mins a day, now I find I can and want to row 10k or 60mins. (Last weekend I did my first HM, boy that was fun !!!). I drink Soy milk now , but will take you great advice to add more to it in a blender. Thanks again to everyone who responded.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 13th, 2004, 10:38 pm

Hi Simon and all, I've been vegetarian since 1974. A good drink is to toss oats in a large bowl... grind up a couple tablespoons of flax seeds and add those.... fill up the bowl with water.... then spoon 3 or 4 scoops into the blender with ample water.... add a ripe banana..... blend for a minute.... pour this into another large bowl...... repeat with another while you're drinking the first one.

[old] Kudos · Post by **[old] Kudos** » December 14th, 2004, 12:36 pm

I think most of the bias against the vegetarian lifestyle comes form years ago when there was not too many sources of protein around besides meat. In this day and age there are a great many of great tasting and very healthy non-meat protein sources. As far as soy in concerned, it is protein, but it is not the best kind you can get. Egg protein has by far the most complete source of the amnio acid profile. If I was a vegetarian, I would have tons of the stuff around. Plus far less sugar and other crap they throw in with soy milk products to make them taste good. There is a company now that make a large gallon size of pasturized egg white that you can add to just about anything, no need to cook and no flavor. I only have 8 ozs of meat in my diet, which supplies about 50 grams of the 250 grams I take in per day. I could drop it easily, but I like to have the variety of protein sources to keep a well structured amino profile. Despite what many vegetarians think, there are plenty of health benefits to meat just as there are to plants. Everyone has to keep an open mind about their current food plan. Anybody can make anything work and turn a blind eye to the negative aspects fo their diets. No one diet is best, otherwise everyone would be doing the same thing right? Why not learn as much you can from both? Your health and performance are at stake here people!!!

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » December 14th, 2004, 3:01 pm

ups to what you were saying, kudos.. I personally have no beef (pardon the pun) with vegetarians - I just get annoyed by "preachy" vegetarians... (not that anyone on this board is - I'm speaking in general terms) In short, I respect your choice, please respect mine. When it comes to soy, I've read enough conflicting reports about the effects of that stuff on testosterone production, to make me say to myself "why risk it?" Testosterone is key to males.. it's part of what keeps us looking young and vital well into old age. So why would I mess with something that could potentially dampen the levels of the hormone in my body? I'm not a teenager anymore, so it's not like I have it in spades. However, I do think that if you are a vegetarian, and an athlete, you have to keep an eagle eye on your diet to make sure you are getting enough protein and beneficial fats for recovery and muscle growth. You can be a great athlete and a vegetarian - just look at the examples listed, and even a bodybuilder - look at the physique of the great Bill Pearl - but you just have to plan the nutritional aspect of your training all the more. good luck, D

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 14th, 2004, 6:44 pm

What would you recommend to be "beneficial fats". Consumption of animal protein is directly coordinated with shorter life spans. There is plenty of preaching about the need for protein, from the meat and dairy industries, but no credence. Most people eat too much protein, rather than not enough. Regardless I get far more than the minimum arbitrary standard for protein, and with NO consumption of meat, dairy, soy, egg whites, etc. This is very easy to do.

[old] SimonB · Post by **[old] SimonB** » December 14th, 2004, 9:09 pm

Since I'd never heard of Bill Pearl, I did a quick search. Good Grief, the man was huge <img src='http://www.shelterpub.com/_fitness/_wei ... _color.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> 1985. Just goes to show that with the correct diet and training, anything is possible.

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » December 14th, 2004, 11:11 pm

John, beneficial fats - fats from natural unsalted nuts or natural peanut butter, omega 3,6,9s, fish oils, olive oil, cold-pressed flax, essential fatty acid supplements and CLA (another beneficial fatty acid) I think you mean that consumption of animal protein HIGH IN SATURATED FAT shortens life spans. Just like you can make the same argument that the ridiculously high carb diets some vegetarians eat can shorten lifespans too.. I don't want to get into an argument with you about the amount of protein we need or don't need. .. Needless to say you weigh 65kg and I weigh over 110kg and I'm probably as lean or leaner than you are. Not to say anything - but high protein diets combined with weight lifting do work. I doubt I would have put on that kind of size eating what you would consider "adequate protein" - so let's just agree to disagree. No need to start a flame war over this. ... the amount of protein you need is directly related to your activity level and athletic involvement. If you lift weights you are going to need more protein than someone who sits on their ass all day. That's a fact. Bill Pearl was (and still is)a stud... however, I think he turned vegetarian AFTER he got big - I don't think he GOT big using a vegetarian diet, though. The point with him though, is that if he was able to maintain that kind of muscle mass on a vegetarian diet, therefore it should be more than possible to get that big on the same kind of diet, assuming of course you are getting enough protein... peace, D

[old] Blue44deuce · Post by **[old] Blue44deuce** » December 15th, 2004, 12:21 am

If you want more calories and protein in your diet, then try a gainer. The one I use is from CytoSport and it's called CytoGainer. They make a great product and it tastes good, too.

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