Sore Back Etc.

[[old] richkrz]

Hi gang,<br><br>I'm still struggling with my morning workouts... it seems like it's more than just poor preworkout nutrition. I keep doing what I can, but my sleep apnea and allergies seem to be a bigger part in this than I thought. It's rough to row w/o quality sleep & breathing problems!! (early AM is the only time I can exercise)<br><br>One thing that's been occurring lately is I've been hurting my upper back when rowing. I'm really careful about posture and form, but at least once a week I come away with pain between (and slightly below) my shoulder blades. Is there something in particular I should watch out for to avoid this? It seems to happen mostly when I try some sort of interval training, even when I am careful about warming up. Maybe with the poor sleep, my concentration is just lax.<br><br>Should I switch to low intensity rowing until my sleep, and thus energy, improves? I hate the thought of it, but I'm wondering if I should switch to something less strenuous, like an exercise bike, for a while.<br><br>Thanks,<br>Rich

[[old] becz]

Rich,<br><br>I don't have any advice on the allergies/apnea, but here are some thoughts on your back pain.<br><br>I get some soreness in the same location during very long rows. On the technique side, one thing you can pay attention to is that you are rotating at the hip to get your forward body lean, and not by slouching. Since you are experiencing the discomfort mostly during interval rows, you may be trying to get more lean than you need by slouching the upper back. Try some easy rowing focusing on rotating at the hip as much as is comfortable for you, then holding that angle up the slide just until your shins are vertical.<br><br>It would probably also help to incorporate some stretches which focus on that area during your warmup. Try holding onto a stationary object (pole, door jamb, whatever) with one hand while keeping your arm straight, then turn your body 90 degrees toward your outstreched arm to get a stretch across your upper back.<br><br>Lastly, try to strenghten the muscles in that area with some supporting exercise. One that comes to mind is to lay on the floor flat on your stomach, arms stretched out in front of you, then lift your arms and legs off the floor as much as possible and hold for 5 seconds. Then rest and repeat for a total of maybe ten repetitions. It may help to do these before rowing to warm up those specific muscles which are troublesome for you.<br><br>Hope this helps. Good luck.

[[old] Paul S]

I also have sleep apnea. I have found that it is greatly lessened by sleeping on my side, right or left, it doesn't matter. I have read about sewing a ping pong ball into the back of your sleepwear to help keep you off your back but I have not found a need for that. It would be hard since I am a "au naturel" sleeper anyways.<br><br>Good luck - Paul S - 64

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Paul S+Nov 30 2004, 06:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (Paul S @ Nov 30 2004, 06:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have read about sewing a ping pong ball into the back of your sleepwear to help keep you off your back but I have not found a need for that. It would be hard since I am a "au naturel" sleeper anyways.<br><br>Good luck - Paul S - 64 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br> With recent advances in body piercing, this should not be a problem.

[[old] pduck]

Have you tried sleeping with those Breathe Right strips acrossed your nose?

[[old] Kudos]

I use those breathe right strips while rowing test/important peices or when I am a little sick. I think they are awesome, but too expensive for everyday use, almost 50 cents a strip. I would recommend that everyone try them at least once. A neat little breathing aid.

[[old] TLCoons]

I can relate to your back pain and prefer to describe it as a steel rod fused between my shoulder blades. This makes almost any lateral movement painful.<br><br>One week after participating in the Skeleton Crew Challenge, my first challenge piece, I 'threw out' my lower back by bending/stretching slightly while making the bed. Wow, the pain. Couldn't much move for several days.<br><br>Anyway, now the lower back has rebuilt/restrengthened/quit hurting and the shoulder blade steel rod has begun. I suppose that corrections for low back pain were domino-ed up into the shoulder blades.<br><br>I am new to rowing (since AUG04) but pretty anal about my form matching that demonstrated in the C2 technique video. My theories as to what caused the issue are as follows (comments welcome!):<br><br>1. Maybe I pushed too hard (for me) during the Skeleton Crew Challenge.<br>2. Maybe my back was going to give out anyway and rowing delayed it.<br>3. Erging definitely strengthens my back and made recovery faster.<br>4. Did (regular or improper) Erging, however, contribute to the low back outage? <br>5. Maybe my technique isn't as good as I thought.<br><br><br>I've been wondering how to bring this up on the forum for the last few weeks and am still not presenting it in a very graceful way. Have others experienced anything like this? Any words of wisdom?<br><br>Thanks for listening.

[[old] stkcoal@comcast.net]

I too have sleep apnea. I have been treated for it and they gave me the choice of surgery or the CPAP machine. I figured I would start with this machine first before I decided on allowing them to cut. It took me 3-4 weeks to get used to the mask and breathing hose but I now sleep like a baby and have plenty of energy for my full time job and Paul Smith's work outs. I have been on the machine for going on 3 years and I won't go to bed without it. I take it when I travel. My wife sleeps better now that I don't snore.<br><br>Joe Drinon 61/LWT 7:50 PB and with Paul's help I will break this at the Crash Bs.<br><br>

[[old] Sid9DC]

I've had what sounds like the exact same upper back problems (one vertebra beneath the point between my shoulder blades, and always to the right of my spine). I used to erg (beginning 8 years ago) with the resistance all the way up on a Model B for about 7k per day 5-6 days per week for about 3 years. My form was good for most of that time. My back hurt a lot, and it didn't get better (even with a sensible drag factor, and then going every other day) until I quit erging altogether.<br><br>I only recently restarted about 3 months ago. Now I have a Model D at home, and I keep the drag factor light (115 or so). Under no set of circumstances will I row on consecutive days. (Instead, 17k every other day.) I got an Aeron chair for the office, and I'm very careful not to carry much in my messenger bag to/from work (or carry boxes etc.). I feel good, but am pretty confident that things would fall apart if I pushed myself hard on consecutive days, or if I had to sit in an uncomfortable chair all day at work.<br><br>Sid

[[old] Steve_R]

Let me start by saying "I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on TV."<br><br>I would guess that your back pain between the shoulders would not be due to slouching (I would expect that to present as lumbar spinal pain not thorasic). My questions would be more around the force of your pull with your arms at the end of your drive. If you are "over pulling" your arms in, your shoulder blades could be forcing your spine forward at that area causing mild bruising or other joint discomfort. This would be exacerbated the higher up your chest your drive finishes. Another thought could be the start of the drive. If you start your drive with your back and not your legs, you could be pulling on your upper back too much causing your pain. My only other thought would be the resistance setting on the erg, too high and you could pull on the upper back the same way (Sid9DC, not in your case apparently). I have dealt with back pain for about 12 years with a herniated disk between L5-S1. I just started rowing a few months ago but the only time I have had discomfort was 19k into a HM and suspect it was poor nutrition before and during that caused my muscles to stop supporting my back at that point.<br><br>Sleep apnea is very serious as it affects all aspects of your life. Most people who find sleeping on their side to fix apnea have an extended soft palette that is blocking the airway when they sleep on their back. This can sometimes be helped by sleeping more inclined with the head elevated. There could also be contributing factors such as large adenoids or tonsils. Being overweight contributes greatly to sleep apnea. An ENT could better diagnose what contributes to your apnea.<br><br>Again, just my $0.02, this is not intended to be medical advice... yada yada yada.<br><br>Steve

[[old] richkrz]

Thanks for all the input everyone!<br><br>I don't think I do anything wrong at the beginning of the drive; I'm pretty careful about pushing through the legs, and just keeping my back stationary until the legs are almost fully extended. I could be pulling too hard into my abdomen at the very end though... once the soreness is gone and I can start back I'll have to monitor that. <br><br>The only other thing I can think that would have caused it was that I recently added some yoga to my routine. I may have overdone some of the postures, and that could have aggravated things. Again, something to be monitored.<br><br>I've found that I can only row every other day. If I row every day, even for shorter periods, I seem to get run down very quickly. This is probably due to the poor sleep. I also have to be careful about what activities I do on off days. Weight lifting (other than basics like push-ups and crunches) seems to be a no-no.<br><br>These sleep problems suck! I wish it was something simple like a broken leg, where I could just let it heal and get back to my life. But it's turning out to be a long period of trial and error (mostly error). Ihave had a cpap machine for several months, but still can't sleep through the night with it. I just had my nasal turbinates cauterized in the hopes that it would open up the breathing passages and help me tolerate the machine, but so far it hasn't helped.<br><br>Oh well, I'll just keep plugging away at finding a solution. I can't wait for the day when I can sleep through the night, and wake up refreshed and ready to hop on my erg!<br><br>Rich

[[old] Paul S]

There is a new procedure to help sleep apnea called the " Pillar Procedure." It involves inserting three plastic strips into the soft pallet area that causes the sleep apnea. This stiffens it. It can be done on an office visit with just a local. For most people normal activity can be resumed that day. Might be worth looking into.<br><br><a href='http://sleepdisorders.about.com/od/surgery/a/Pillar.htm' target='_blank'>http://sleepdisorders.about.com/od/surg ... r><br>Paul S<br>

[[old] John Rupp]

Be sure you are sitting tall, keeping your back straight and rotating from your hips.<br><br>Regarding sleep apnea, practice holding your breath.<br><br>Breath normally, hold your breath as long as you can, then breathe normally again.<br><br>Avoid over breathing!!!!!!!<br><br>Over breathing causes washing out of co2 buffers, to which the lungs compensate by forming more mucus etc, making breathing more difficult.<br><br>Notice those having asthma and panic attacks etc are greatly over breathing, 5 or 6 times normal, and then recover when they get worn out and breathe normally again.<br><br>I had asthma from age 3 to 5 and got rid of it by practicing blowing all the air out of my lungs and holding my breath.<br><br>Over breathing is a major cause of asthma and sleep apnea.<br><br>You can find more info by looking up "Buteyko" and "breathing", or "diving" and "breathing", on Google.<br><br>Yoga breathing is helpful too.<br><br>One of the world record divers traveled to India. He was able to hold his breath for 8 minutes. A yogi there, who had never tried this before, held his breath for 15 minutes!!!!<br><br>Those with asthma and other breathing problems can typically not hold their breath very long. Practice helps.