Why Are Some Folks Better Than Others?

[[old] seagulldc]

OK. I feel like a jerk but I'll post my question anyway. I rowed for about a year in college (grad school actually). That was back in 1994. I have been pretty sedentary since then due to a car accident. I'm about 5'3" or so. I just got an erg and started using it at the end of January. At the same time I started, a friend of mine did as well. She has never rowed before. I worked on her technique with her a bit. She's about an inch taller than I am but she carries a lot more muscle mass than I do. <br />Here's the situation that's causing me so much frustration. She's faster than I am! My technique is better and I can go for longer times but she's much faster than I am and it makes me want to scream. She beat my 5K time by 1:20. That's huge. I don't get it. Is it the muscle mass? I know there are a lot of variables that come into play but for goodness sakes, what am I doing wrong, besides being too competitive?

[[old] snappyrower]

Height really is an advantage, as is the muscle mass. Not fun, eh? When I rowed in college I was a very light lightweight (who eventually got switched to cox for a while). (no longer a lwt by any means now! ). I had pretty good technique, but due to my shorter stature and my lack of muscle I got beat pretty often on the erg. Have you thought of doing some cross-training with weights?

[[old] PaulS]

No need to feel like a jerk, you just did a great job at getting your friend up to speed. You're right, 8 seconds difference in pace is huge and likely due to the higher muscle mass, but your friend may also be as competitive as you, which can only be a benefit to you both to progress rapidly. Just use eachother as motivation to get better, she can try to maintian the margn established and you can do your best to wreck that. Establish it as your current handicapped difference and bet for post workout smoothies or something. Once you win, establish a new handicap to reflect that margin.<br /><br />There are very few instances when you get to be faster than everyone else, so that's a pretty tough standard to set for yourself, however if you continue to improve your own performance at your best rate, there is a lot of satisfaction to be had.<br /><br />Cheers!

[[old] ljwagner]

Relax.<br /><br />In college my freshman year, we had a very competitive 8, and turkey boat 4.<br /><br />The T4 had guys at 6'1 200, 6'6 200, 6'0 185, and 6'0 180. They were jealous of me and another guy at 145 lbs in the 1st 8. I'm 6 feet tall. Pretty much a rail. But I had excellent power, great technique, a long reach. On film, the coach said I looked as if I could burst at any moment, I showed so much strain.<br /><br />Then over Spring break, I hung out with the T4 group, and we did some pair rowing. They discovered why they were in the turkey boat. In a pair wherry, the strongest of them struggled to keep the boat straight rowing with me, and he had the bow seat. I was not even tired.<br /><br />That same guy started working a lot harder, and made the 1st 8 by the end of the year. He roomed with me the following year, changed his diet, changed his workout. Then went home for his junior year. What he learned from me, resulted in his achieving a National Champion in the pair. Jerry Machado, University of Santa Clara. 1973 (?)<br /><br />What was most cool, he HATED being matched with me with random oarsman for intervals, even after that.<br /><br />You don't know what condition your friend was in before, how strong she was, her mental toughness, her cardio conditioning. Be amazed, be proud of her, be motivated. Ask her what she does. If she says she does not know what she does differently, she's being coy at best. You can't outperform someone just because you think you can.

[[old] ljwagner]

Being sedentary, you lose half of your strength easily. My back went down two inches in circumference in two months after I stopped training for Crew. I did not know I had gained two inches.<br /><br />Your friend is a lot stronger than you think she is. And you are likely a lot weaker than you think you are.<br /><br />5% a week is how much you can gain. You can close on her, but it will take time. Make it a game, not a competition. Measure your improvement against yourself, not your friend. Should you ever catch up, then it can be competitive. <br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

ljwagner,<br /><br />Your comments are very helpful. Thanks.

[[old] Xeno]

<!--QuoteBegin-seagulldc+Feb 10 2005, 12:06 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(seagulldc @ Feb 10 2005, 12:06 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OK.  I feel like a jerk but I'll post my question anyway.  I rowed for about a year in college (grad school actually).  That was back in 1994.  I have been pretty sedentary since then due to a car accident.  I'm about 5'3" or so.  I just got an erg and started using it at the end of January.  At the same time I started, a friend of mine did as well.  She has never rowed before.  I worked on her technique with her a bit.  She's about an inch taller than I am but she carries a lot more muscle mass than I do.  <br />Here's the situation that's causing me so much frustration.  She's faster than I am!  My technique is better and I can go for longer times but she's much faster than I am and it makes me want to scream.  She beat my 5K time by 1:20.  That's huge.  I don't get it.  Is it the muscle mass?  I know there are a lot of variables that come into play but for goodness sakes, what am I doing wrong, besides being too competitive? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi!<br />What resistance do you use on the rowing machine?<br />And, when are you flying to Southern California, Santa Ana, for a couple of days? We will take a look at your stroke. Run a lactate step test and give you a training program that will develop the aerobic capacity further.<br />You have the right attitude. I am certain we can tighten down the bolts on you and take down your friend! All in an amicable fashion, no harm intended.<br />XENO

[[old] Coach Gus]

<!--QuoteBegin-ljwagner+Nov 20 2005, 03:47 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ljwagner @ Nov 20 2005, 03:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Relax.<br /><br />In college my freshman year, we had a very competitive 8, and turkey boat 4.<br /><br />The T4 had guys at 6'1 200, 6'6 200, 6'0 185, and 6'0 180.  They were jealous of me and another guy at 145 lbs in the 1st 8.  I'm 6 feet tall.  Pretty much a rail.  But I had excellent power, great technique, a long reach.  On film, the coach said I looked as if I could burst at any moment, I showed so much strain.<br /><br />Then over Spring break, I hung out with the T4 group, and we did some pair rowing.  They discovered why they were in the turkey boat.  In a pair wherry, the strongest of them struggled to keep the boat straight rowing with me, and he had the bow seat.  I was not even tired.<br /><br />That same guy started working a lot harder, and made the 1st 8 by the end of the year.  He roomed with me the following year, changed his diet, changed his workout.  Then went home for his junior year.  What he learned from me, resulted in his achieving a National Champion in the pair.  Jerry Machado, University of Santa Clara.  1973 (?)<br /><br />What was most cool, he HATED being matched with me with random oarsman for intervals, even after that.<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It's kind of confusing to me. Did you also go to SCU? You said something about Jerry Machado going home his junior year so it's hard to tell. Jerry actually graduated in 1975 but should have graduated in 1974. He and I took 2nd at the IRAs in '73. It was '74 when we won. <br /><br />I found your statement that he won the nationals because of what he learned from you very interesting. Could you elaborate?<br /><br />Edit: As this post was sent to me by a link from my son, I hadn't paid attention to it being in the women's forum. I apologize for hijacking the thread.

[[old] woolsmith]

Hey Seagulldc!<br /><br />Good topic, Seagulldc. I'm no coach or anything, and I've only been rowing since Mid-May. But imho, some folks are sprinters, some folks are more long distance rowers (or runners, etc). Like you, I can go a lot farther/longer than some of my friends, but my times in the shorter events stink. <br /><br />So, (help me out here, coaches!), I guess training to increase your sprinting times would be in order--if that's what you want. I kinda like being a distance person, and that way I have the distance capability to be able to do the longer workouts from a cardiovascular standpoint, important to me now that I'm, um, older. As to what specific training would be required, I can only speculate, but it seems logical to me to work on the shorter distances (higher watts) or perhaps do some interval training? Weight training for muscle mass makes sense as well in order to be able to do those harder pulls needed for sprinting.<br /><br />And I suppose for best overall fitness, I should be able to be close to average as a sprinter AND a distance person? Sprinting ability also makes sense from a standpoint of maintaining bone mineral density for women in particular (especially us aging ones) , because harder pulls create more muscle mass which allows for harder pulls...which all has a higher weight-bearing effect on the skeletal system. <br /><br />So, what are some good goals here, coaches? And what would be some appropriate training to achieve those goals? <br /><br />Thanks in advance!<br />--Jen in WI

[[old] John Rupp]

Hey Gus,<br /><br />Did you learn to row from Jerry Machado?

[[old] ljwagner]

Jerry had some less than stellar athletes in his 4, and was a day student. I did not teach him a lot, except maybe to respect someone he didn't think he should. He found out he was out of shape compared to the better guys in the Frosh 8, including me. The big event in history was a day in wherry's with me and 2 of his tuna boat compatriots. The 4 of us also played cards together. Jerry and I sabotaged the other boat, tossing the oars in the lake, then racing back to the dock. He said hurry back, and I apparently cranked it up at the stroke seat enough for him to find out he definitely did not deserve my seat in the 8. A least not that day, anyway. A few weeks later he earned the 4 seat, unseating another lwt who was as cocky as Jerry, but not as hard working.<br /><br /> He changed his diet, and general training Spring 1971, maybe from that day forward. He came to school the following Fall in way better shape than he did 1970. 1971-72 school year he roomed with me, worked out more regular I guess, and faster, at my pace I suspect, and to eat his vegetables (seriously, if I did it, he started. He wanted to leave little to chance.) He moved back home, I think, the next year. He and Gus lived nearby, near the lake we used, and rowed over the summer together, and became what they became.<br /><br />Gus learned to row as a Freshman, and was the 5 seat in his Frosh 8 I think. He looked like a surfer who did weights. He and Crocker had arms like no one else on the team. Jerry rowed HW4 and HW8 all that year. They just got real good together over the summer I would suspect. We had a couple of more avg JV8 guys who teamed in a pair at the end of 1972, trained and won the regionals in that year. Partly becuase other boats could not stay in their lane. I know for a fact, Jerry said at least once if the other two could win Regionals, others had a shot at Nationals, and he was right.<br /><br />I suppose I also taught Jerry to get off his butt. But that was accomplished in that last 4-5 minutes in the pair-oared wherry. He's been a raging success since that one embarassing ride.