Concept2 Forum

Hi<br /><br />Here in Germany we are in the soccer fever, because this year<br />the FIFA World Cup, the most important event for german people.<br />I am thinking to organize a "World Cup Online" for fun naturaly<br /><br />The rules?<br /><br />I thought about many groups A, B, C, D with 4 rowers in each group<br />from 4 different countries. They will row together, then the 2 best<br />with the 2 best from the other group. I have to check how they are combining<br />but I am sure you know it better than me<br /><br />I thought something like combinations of handicap races and<br />races with "Le Tour 2003" punctuation, it means, considering your age, <br />weight and gender.<br />Because there are many rowers in USA, we can say maybe USA North, West, etc<br />Or you represent the country of your parents, or grandparents<br />to have more variety of countries<br />Then we would have less and less rowers until we have the<br />champion.<br /><br />For example:<br />Peter had the best time in Group A (considering age,etc) for 5KM<br /><br />In the second round, Peter rows against Richard (The 2nd Best from Team<br /> but in handicap, we consider their times from race 1.<br /><br /><br />Another suggestions for the rules? feedback?<br /><br />Naturaly only for fun. Sorry Venezuela, I will represent you<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />Marilyn

<!--QuoteBegin-Marilyn+Jan 17 2006, 12:44 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Marilyn @ Jan 17 2006, 12:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I thought about many groups A, B, C, D with 4 rowers in each group<br />from 4 different countries.<br /><br />I thought something like combinations of handicap races and<br />races with "Le Tour 2003" punctuation, it means, considering your age, <br />weight and gender. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Great idea, Marilyn. <br /><br />How about using the PATT percentages?

Hi John<br /><br />How are you doing? Are you online now?<br />What are PATT percentages? Something that every rower should know?<br /><br />Marilyn

The PATT percentages is some formula made up by John Rupp to compare his rowing with the "percentage of world record time". But no one else uses this, and I would guess that almost nobody would want you to use for your online competition. JR does not row online as far as I know.<br /><br />I thought the team competition aspect of the summer series that we did last year was fun, so this looks interesting too.

Here is another example to illustrate what I mean:<br /><br />Another example:<br /><br />5 Groups:<br /><br />Group A<br />USA East Coast<br />Brasil<br />Danemark<br />Switzerland<br /><br /><br />Group B<br />Germany<br />Italy<br />France<br />Venezuela<br /><br />Group C<br />South Africa<br />USA West Coast<br />Sweeden<br />Spain<br /><br />Group D<br />Australia<br />England<br />Malaysia<br />The Neatherlands<br /><br /><br />USA East Coast rows 5KM against Danemark <br />Results 19:00 19:30<br />After Adjustments 18:30 19:00 <br />Per 10 sec difference 1 point<br />USA East Coast = 3 points<br /><br />Brasil rows 5KM against Switzerland<br />Results 18:00 20:30<br />After Adjustments 18:50 19:00 <br />Per 10 sec difference 1 point<br />Brasil = 1 point<br /><br />The other teams....<br /><br />In the next week:<br />USA East Coast rows against Switzerland in handicap<br />Results: 18:55 20:20<br />Switzerland was 10 sec faster: 1 point<br />...<br />...<br />Then 2 from team have to say good bye and we mixed the teams again<br />By 10 sec per points is maybe too much or ok, or better 5sec?<br /><br />Marilyn<br /><br />

<!--QuoteBegin-Marilyn+Jan 18 2006, 11:12 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Marilyn @ Jan 18 2006, 11:12 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi John<br /><br />How are you doing? Are you online now?<br />What are PATT percentages? Something that every rower should know?<br /><br />Marilyn </td></tr></table><br />Hi Marilyn, <br /><br />I am doing well thanks, how about you? <br /><br />The PATT percentages are based on percentages of the established 2k world records, for each age, gender, and weight class. I have also determined ratios for the other 9 events, so each event can be given a PATT percentage, based on the WR 2k for that AGW. <br /><br />These percentages can be used to compare performances as one gets older, and also to compare with others who are in different divisions. The PATT percentages are the most accurate method for making these comparisons.<br /><br />There is a link to the PATT percentages thread in my signature file.<br />

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The PATT percentages are based on percentages of the established 2k world records,<br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi John<br /><br />Yes, I think it is exactly what I will use. We calculated the difference from the 2k world records in "Le Tour 2003", but then Arno recommended to calculate the percentage, what I think it is better too.<br />In "Le Tour 2004" we made a complicated calculation, what costs me more time and more adjustsments every week with a corrector.<br />Do you have a formula?<br />I mean something like:<br />Marilyn 5KM 25:00 Pace 2:30 Pace 2KM WR F30H = 1:46<br />Then I convert everything in seconds: 150sec/106sec = 1.415<br /><br />Is it what you mean, John?<br />Can you give me an example in case of no?<br /><br />Marilyn<br /> <br /><br /><br />

<!--QuoteBegin-Marilyn+Jan 21 2006, 07:36 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Marilyn @ Jan 21 2006, 07:36 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marilyn 5KM 25:00  Pace 2:30  Pace 2KM WR F30H = 1:46<br />Then I convert everything in seconds: 150sec/106sec = 1.415 <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I think you'll get more value and more respect for your handicapping system if you use the maths from <a href='http://www.nonathlon.com' target='_blank'>http://www.nonathlon.com</a>. The Nonathlon is created and run by Andy Nield (Cran) and Paul H. There are plenty of the best rowers using the Nonathlon. Nonathlon is a good system for comparing the 42 year old lwt lady with the 25 year old hwt man.<br /><br />Compare it to John Rupp's PATT stuff, which is used by precisely two rowers. They are John Rupp and Rich Cureton. No one else uses it, because it, simply, isn't a good system. The maths "invented" by John Rupp has no value in the real world.<br />

<!--QuoteBegin-Citroen+Jan 21 2006, 04:25 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Citroen @ Jan 21 2006, 04:25 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Compare it to John Rupp's PATT stuff, which is used by precisely two rowers. They are John Rupp and Rich Cureton. No one else uses it, because it, simply, isn't a good system. The maths "invented" by John Rupp has no value in the real world.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />And we don't row in the real world <br />Hi Citroen, will you be rowing for France?<br />I have another bigger problems as the adjustements<br /><br />For example how to win the points. <br />By 10sec difference in a normal race <br />how many points should win a rower?<br /><br />And in a handicap race by 10 sec how many points?<br /><br />I think every weekend (4 weekends) you row against one of your group<br />1. time in a normal race and 1. time in a handicap race (based in the prior race)<br />with other rower<br /><br />Soccer Experts here to tell me how to combine the groups again<br />I think the best one from one group rows against the second one from other group<br />And the second one with the first one from another another group<br />right?<br /><br />Marilyn<br />

<!--QuoteBegin-Marilyn+Jan 21 2006, 10:45 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Marilyn @ Jan 21 2006, 10:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />And we don't row in the real world <br />Hi Citroën, will you be rowing for France?<br />I have another bigger problems as the adjustements<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If I had an erg at home, I'd be a rowpro user and I would happily row for La France. (Although Citroën is a Dutch name.) I don't, so I'm not, so I can't. My wife tells me we don't have the space for it.

<!--QuoteBegin-Citroen+Jan 21 2006, 07:48 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Citroen @ Jan 21 2006, 07:48 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Marilyn+Jan 21 2006, 10:45 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Marilyn @ Jan 21 2006, 10:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />And we don't row in the real world <br />Hi Citroën, will you be rowing for France?<br />I have another bigger problems as the adjustements<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If I had an erg at home, I'd be a rowpro user and I would happily row for La France. (Although Citroën is a Dutch name.) I don't, so I'm not, so I can't. My wife tells me we don't have the space for it. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Dougie:<br /><br />Well ... an erg's not much bigger than a wife ... just kidding ... it's my anniversary today ... 17 years of pure bliss ... I highly recommend it ... bliss that is.<br /><br />-- Mark

Marilyn,<br /><br />If you are going to adjust scores, please use the maths from the nonathlon. I totally agree with what Citroen (Dougie L.) says.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Paul Flack

Hi Paul<br /><br />Time for the forum? Paul, I will definetively to use the "PATT Porcentages"<br />or what I used by Le Tour 2003, it is simple and your range by Le Tour were the same in the Nonathlon. You know we have had long discussions about this Thema.<br />And there is no a formula to make you faster<br /><br />The PATT Porcentages are so fair as the live races, you are LWT or HWT, one kilo here or one kilo there doesn't help you. By Le Tour 2004 it took many many hours with all the calculations and everyweek receiving your new weight. In this point, I am sorry but I will take the Porcentages. It is a decision.<br /><br />I am updating the page, rules will not be ready but it would be something like:<br /><br /><b>One rower</b> per country and <b>per weekend (</b>If a country has more than 1 rower, only as reserve in case that the other is sick in a complete weekend)<br /><br />Groups with 4 countries, so many groups as countries<br />In each group from faster rowers until slower rowers<br /><br />1. Weekend / Friday: Example for Group A (USA, Germany, Spain, Venezuela)<br />USA rows against Spain<br />Germany rows against Venezuela<br />Results<br />USA 9 sec faster than Spain<br />Germany 6 sec faster than Venezuela<br /><br />1 point for each 3 sec differences (in case of exact, we go to the fractions)<br />Results: USA 3 points<br /> Germany 2 points<br /> Spain 0 points<br /> Venezuela 0 points <br /><br /><br />In Group B, C, D... similar races<br /><br />1. Weekend / Sunday: Example for Group A (USA, Germany, Spain, Venezuela)<br /><br />USA against Venezuela in handicap<br />Germany against Spain in handicap<br />Results:<br />Venezuela was 7 sec faster than Friday<br />USA was 1 sec faster than Friday<br />Spain was 2 sec faster than Friday<br />Germany was 1 sec slower than Friday<br /><br />Venezuela 2 points<br />Spain 1 point<br />Germany 0 point<br />USA 0 point<br /><br />In Group B, C, D... similar races<br /><br />2. Weekend. The other combination and goodby to 2 countries in each group<br />and the least punctuation<br /><br />3. Weekend <br />Winner from Group A: USA for example with second winner from Group E<br />second Winner from Group A with Winner Group B<br />in race and in handicap<br />then goodbye to the countries less points in the combinations<br /><br />4.???<br /><br />5. Final: the two Countries with the best points<br /><br />I would no like the event takes more than 4/5 weekends <br /><br />Marilyn

Hi Marilyn what about "Canada" hey!!!

<!--QuoteBegin-captain+Jan 22 2006, 04:16 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(captain @ Jan 22 2006, 04:16 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi Marilyn what about "Canada" hey!!! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Alain, Bonjour<br /><br />The new edition is ready, Tom Zalmstra is the new victim<br />Go ahead reserving your Canada I have ready downloaded the flag<br /><br />Marilyn<br />www.supercanoa.com