Ranger - News To Shock

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 10 2006, 07:09 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 10 2006, 07:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Some hard 5Ks should tell the story, as should 4 x 2K. </td></tr></table><br />Why not do a continuation progression of what you have been doing before, and of what you plan to keep doing this next year. For example, set the monitor for "just row" as usual, and then row your 2k pace for 2000 meters just as you would in a race. When you start to get tired, stop and take a "break" for 15 or 20 seconds then continue on to the end of the 2000 meters and then stop, maybe taking 4 to 10 "breaks" on the way. Complete the entire 2000 meters in 8 minutes.<br /><br />Rest 5 or 10 minutes and then do it again. <br /> <br />Repeat this a few times in a session and several times in a week.<br /><br />While you do this, test your drag factor, rating, timing and rhythm.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Jan 10 2006, 08:09 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 10 2006, 08:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->10 sec.  2,5 on the split.  pfff that's a lot.  </td></tr></table><br /><br />Right now he's doing 7:04 pace so that's a lot more than 10 seconds. <br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are you saying that 55yr olds are inherently weaker than 25 year olds? Very strange. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Just the opposite. I am saying that 25-year-olds can rev their tickers higher than 55-year-olds and therefore can use low drag to achieve a higher rate and faster time, while 55-year-olds can't (without giving up the power in their strokes, in equal measure).<br /><br />The assumption is that, at the limits of possibility, reving the rate _way_ up (to 40 spm and above) while maintaining stroking power severely revs the ticker. 55-year-olds have a limited ticker, so they need to get pace in some other way, if they can, such as from increased resistance on the chain, which lengthens the drive of the stroke and therefore increases the pace without the full effort of holding stroking power and upping the rate (into the stratosphere), even though, for a 25-year-old, this stiffening up of the chain limits the ability of those who can to rev the rate (and the ticker) compared to what might be possible with a lighter chain (i.e., lower drag). <br /><br />Rowing at high drag seems to have been the strategy of all of the best 50s rowers: Freed, Ripley, Watt, myself, etc. Did Tardieu row at high drag? He might have. He really yanked the chain, too. When he was doing his thing, Tardieu wasn't really rowing, either; he was erging (and many rowers, watching Tardieu, as I remember, would say so).<br /><br />The best 50s ergers (have) all developed "erg" strokes, just as I have. <br /><br />"Tricks" of the trade!<br /><br /> <br /><br />The biggest "trick" of the trade might be this, one that I will try to demonstrate this winter: If you know how to row (well, OTW, etc.) you can _really_ get goin', if you have an "erg" stroke, too! You can just combine the two. I am not sure that Ripley, Watt, Tardieu, or Freed did this. Ripley and Tardieu were not OTW rowers. Supposedly, Freed didn't row very well OTW (why? well, maybe he was using an erg stroke! not good!), and Watt is somewhat new to rowing on the water. He was a kayaker. When I set my lwt world records back in 2003, I had also never rowed OTW. Watt is now a good OTW rower. This might explain his unusually impressive times of late, especially the jump he made from 6:29 or so down to 6:25.8 last year. What is Watt doing, perhaps? Rowing at high drag with a good, well trained OTW stroke, modified as it might need to be to withstand the higher drag that characterizes a good erg stroke. <br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 10 2006, 12:09 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 10 2006, 12:09 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 10 2006, 07:09 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 10 2006, 07:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Some hard 5Ks should tell the story, as should 4 x 2K. </td></tr></table><br />Why not do a continuation progression of what you have been doing before, and of what you plan to keep doing this next year. For example, set the monitor for "just row" as usual, and then row your 2k pace for 2000 meters just as you would in a race. When you start to get tired, stop and take a "break" for 15 or 20 seconds then continue on to the end of the 2000 meters and then stop, maybe taking 4 to 10 "breaks" on the way. Complete the entire 2000 meters in 8 minutes.<br /><br />Rest 5 or 10 minutes and then do it again. <br /> <br />Repeat this a few times in a session and several times in a week.<br /><br />While you do this, test your drag factor, rating, timing and rhythm. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Naw. Racing at 15.5 SPI wouldn't be very smart. I'll be racing at about 12.5 SPI. My competition will be racing at about 9 SPI.<br /><br />At the same rate, 1 SPI is worth 10 seconds in a 2K.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 10 2006, 10:15 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 10 2006, 10:15 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Naw. Racing at 15.5 SPI wouldn't be very smart. I'll be racing at about 12.5 SPI. My competition will be racing at about 9 SPI.[right] </td></tr></table><br />Huh?<br /><br />My suggestion is to row 2000 meters *with breaks*, at your *competition* race pace, stroke rates, drag factor, rhythm and timing.<br /><br />Not at 20 spm and high energy cost.<br /><br />Do them at 36 to 40 spm or whatever, and 1:36 pace, until you are ready to hold it for the 2k with no breaks, i.e in the race.<br /><br /><br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 10 2006, 10:11 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 10 2006, 10:11 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are you saying that 55yr olds are inherently weaker than 25 year olds? Very strange. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Just the opposite. I am saying that 25-year-olds can rev their tickers higher than 55-year-olds and therefore can use low drag to achieve a higher rate and faster time, while 55-year-olds can't (without giving up the power in their strokes, in equal measure).<br /><br />Ripley and Tardieu were not OTW rowers.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't think I was asking you, but you still didn't answer the question for John very well.<br /><br />I don't know about Tardieu, but I'm sure you know nothing of Ripley, the guy rowed with the Boat Race Crew when he was twice the age of the rest of the rowers there. He was also apparently a Rugby Monster and an all aroud Sportsman. Battling cancer now apparently, but I suppose if we live long enough we all will get to do that.<br /><br />Cheers.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do them at 36 to 40 spm or whatever, and 1:36 pace, until you are ready to hold it for the 2k with no breaks, i.e in the race. </td></tr></table><br /><br />IMHO, training for muscular adaptation and habituation and training for aerobic capacity and anaerobic tolerance are pretty different things. I do them differently. Rowing with breaks is for muscular adaptation and habituation.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] John Rupp]

For a given pace, the objective is to use a lower energy cost for each stroke, not a higher one.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the guy rowed with the Boat Race Crew when he was twice the age of the rest of the rowers there. </td></tr></table><br /><br />But almost ten years after he set the 50s hwt erg record of 6:07. Could be wrong, I guess, but at that time, I don't think he rowed on the water.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 10 2006, 02:15 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 10 2006, 02:15 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For a given pace, the objective is to use a lower energy cost for each stroke, not a higher one. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Depends on who you are, I think.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

The 50's hwt record is 30s slower than the open heavy record.<br /><br />The 50's lwt record is only 23s from the open lightweight World Record.<br /><br />If the 50's heavy record was as good as Watt's 6:25, then it would be under 6 minutes.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 10 2006, 02:20 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 10 2006, 02:20 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The 50's hwt record is 30s slower than the open heavy record.<br /><br />The 50's lwt record is only 23s from the open lightweight World Record.<br /><br />If the 50's heavy record was as good as Watt's 6:25, then it would be under 6 minutes. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />So?<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If the 50's heavy record was as good as Watt's 6:25, then it would be under 6 minutes. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, I think that Watt's 50-54 lwt record is indeed good. The hwt 50-54 WR is more vulnerable.<br /><br />Watt is only 7 seconds from the 40s lwt WR. Ripley is 15 seconds from the 40s hwt WR.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] judgedread]

<i>I don't know about Tardieu, but I'm sure you know nothing of Ripley, the guy rowed with the Boat Race Crew when he was twice the age of the rest of the rowers there. He was also apparently a Rugby Monster and an all aroud Sportsman. Battling cancer now apparently, but I suppose if we live long enough we all will get to do that.</i><br /><br />As you say not just a rugby monster...but a legend of an athlete - anyone remember the TV "superstars" where sports champions competed against each other in multidisciplinary events? - Ripley was THE superstar.

[[old] ranger]

But who cares? 50s guys should just outrow all the 40s guys entirely--and be done with it!<br /><br /> <br /><br />Everyone knows which divisions are best!<br /><br /> <br /><br />ranger