"low Pull"

[[old] FrancoisA]

Is there anything wrong with doing squats on a Smith machine? Some stabilizing muscles may not work as hard, but it is a lot safer. I have this <a href='http://www.bodysolid.com/Item.aspx?Item ... +Smith+Gym#' target='_blank'>machine</a> at home. I can adjust the height of the safeties on both sides to make sure that I don't go too deep when doing squats.

[[old] remador]

Yoda,<br /><br />I agree with you; leg press is quite safer and, if done along with back strengthening exercises, it might make squats unnecessary. <br /><br />There is a problem about many rowing clubs, though (at least many ones that I know): coaches saw squats as a "leg" exercise, and, nowadays, that leg press machines have invaded rowing clubs, they keep doing bench pulls and bench presses, along with body-weight core work, but no weighted lower back exercise. Bench pulls and presses were enough when people squated, but they are not anymore, with lp machines. In other words, we have a void when it comes to lower back. <br /><br />Of course rowing works lower back itself, but many coaches are forgetting one of the major benefits of weight-training for rowers: to prevent injuries, making your lower back stronger.<br /><br />AM<br /><br />

[[old] remador]

Talking about higher and lower pulls: when I, for professional reasons, started, a year ago (I had been practicing rowing in my club for about 6 months before, after a 12 year break), training in a gym, I began to do seated rows instead of bench pulls (with no squats). My lower back got stronger and, believe it or not, I sarted doing pretty much better aerobic workouts, because I could pull much lower splits with less cardiac effort.<br /><br />AM<br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

You could just do: 1) leg presses, and 2) dead lifts.

[[old] John Rupp]

Yoda,<br /><br />There are 2 ways I know of to get pictures on the computer.<br /><br />1) Take the pictures with a web cam, then the pictures are loaded directly onto the computer. This is the easiest and least expensive way. Web cams are $28 or less. You can take pictures away from the computer, than plug it in and the pictures get uploaded directly;<br /><br />2) Take pictures with a regular camera, then have them scanned (need a scanner), or else put on a cd. They are then uploaded to the computer from the scanner or cd.<br /><br />After the pictures are uploaded to the computer the file can be either:<br /><br />3) Sent through email or a similar program;<br /><br />4) Or uploaded to a site such as www.photobucket.com/ which gives you a link to post with each picture.

[[old] Porkchop]

<!--QuoteBegin-ancho+Nov 6 2005, 05:46 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ancho @ Nov 6 2005, 05:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Porkchop+Nov 6 2005, 11:13 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Porkchop @ Nov 6 2005, 11:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />You've been had. This photo was exposed as a photo-shopped fake on a number of weightlifting sites a couple years ago.  <i>See</i>Snopes Prolapse. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Now knowing this, I modestly propose you to edit your posts and delete the link (not really nice to look at, eh? )<br /><br />Anyway: be careful with the squats! <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Done

[[old] Yoda1]

FranciosA,<br /><br />I don't care for the Smith Machine. The reason is that it controls the body through the guide rods. In other words, you're forced into doing a movement that is not the body's natural movement. As far as safety is concerned, it does prevent the weight from coming down on you. Just my opinion, but I think a power rack would be better.<br /><br />John,<br /><br />I have a scanner, but don't know how to use it. I'm going to try this, but I have to take some pictures first. It will probably take a couple of days. My neighbor is a computer whizz, so maybe he can help me get the photos on to a post.<br /><br />AM,<br /><br />"Good Mornings" are great low back exercise. And stiff leg deadlift off of blocks is even better. I'm one of those guys that thought he was superman when I was younger. I still think I'm superman, but a lot weaker. We used to do workouts that lasted a day. We all thought that more was better. Now, the workouts I do are extremely intense, but very short. I only workout once a week and use Super Slow most of the time. I still believe that it is the one protocol that will transfer over to more specific sport endevours (spell) better than any other. <br /><br />Yoda<br /><br />

[[old] remador]

Yoda,<br /><br />I really like stiff leg deadlifts; as the matter of fact, I am incorporating them into my weight workouts at the moment. Last saturday, I did a 3x4x130kg. Great for grip strength, lower back and hamstrings.<br /><br />AM

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-FrancoisA+Nov 7 2005, 04:50 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Nov 7 2005, 04:50 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is there anything wrong with doing squats on a Smith machine? Some stabilizing muscles may not work as hard, but it is a lot safer. I have this <a href='http://www.bodysolid.com/Item.aspx?Item ... +Smith+Gym#' target='_blank'>machine</a> at home. I can adjust the height of the safeties on both sides to make sure that I don't go too deep when doing squats. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />No, as long as you don't go to heavy. If you do go haevy. (reps below 8) it is not safe just because off te lack off movement you can make. <br />An always do your squats deep enough, bent as deep as possible without losing the tension in your quads. And off cause keep your back straith.<br /><br />henry

[[old] Mark Keating]

<!--QuoteBegin-remador+Nov 8 2005, 07:29 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(remador @ Nov 8 2005, 07:29 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yoda,<br /><br />I really like stiff leg deadlifts; as the matter of fact, I am incorporating them into my weight workouts at the moment. Last saturday, I did a 3x4x130kg. Great for grip strength, lower back and hamstrings.<br /><br />AM <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I've never tried deadlifts, but it seems that they would be more likely to injure the low back than strengthen it - what should a person concentrate on when doing them?<br /><br />Mark

[[old] remador]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've never tried deadlifts, but it seems that they would be more likely to injure the low back than strengthen it - what should a person concentrate on when doing them?<br /><br />Mark </td></tr></table><br /><br />Mark,<br /><br />It's, actually, a compound exercise which has to be well done to avoid serious injury. I think, asnwering your question, that one should concentrate (I am talking about stiff-leg deadlitfs, not "simple" deadlifts) in keeping the back as straight as possible, not going too low and not locking completely your legs. That should prevent any over compression. Anyway - it's obvious we should start with low weights.<br /><br />AM

[[old] ancho]

<!--QuoteBegin-Porkchop+Nov 7 2005, 06:56 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Porkchop @ Nov 7 2005, 06:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...<br />Done <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hey, PC!<br />You should also edit the "Snopes prolapse"-link on your both previous posts (I just did it!)<br />Well then let's go on with the thread!<br />Regards,<br />

[[old] mpukita]

For great form advice on power and Olympic lifting movements, which can really be a help to ensure resistance to injury, I recommend:<br /><br />www.crossfit.com<br /><br />There are some great pictures, videos, etc. Great stuff. I think the guy who started it was at one time one of the US Olympic Team powerlifting coaches, but I'm not certain.<br /><br />As well, always best to start with light weight and concentrate on form, form, form, before adding weight. Go slow, you have a whole lifetime of fitness ahaed of you. No sense in pushing it and causing injury.<br /><br />Regards -- Mark

[[old] Porkchop]

<!--QuoteBegin-remador+Nov 8 2005, 08:51 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(remador @ Nov 8 2005, 08:51 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've never tried deadlifts, but it seems that they would be more likely to injure the low back than strengthen it - what should a person concentrate on when doing them?<br /><br />Mark </td></tr></table><br /><br />Mark,<br /><br />It's, actually, a compound exercise which has to be well done to avoid serious injury. I think, asnwering your question, that one should concentrate (I am talking about stiff-leg deadlitfs, not "simple" deadlifts) in keeping the back as straight as possible, not going too low and not locking completely your legs. That should prevent any over compression. Anyway - it's obvious we should start with low weights.<br /><br />AM <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Guys, unless you are planning to do all your rowing with straight legs, I suggest that stiff-legged (or "Romanian") deadlifts will be of limited utility. Like "good mornings," they will strengthen the hamstrings and lower back, but they will do very little to help the leg drive. For that you need to work your quadriceps, too. "Real" deadlifts are my preferred option, since (among free-weight resistance exercises) they probably most closely mimic the action of rowing, followed by squats (you pick the variety -- there are lots of them, and I don't mean to get into an argument on preferable squat type), and then the leg press. If you want to move beyond the range of motion, then maybe power cleans from the floor would be helpful. Beyond that, some would argue for Oly lifts. But regardless of how far you want to take it, stiff-legged deadlifts by themselves are not going to take you very far in improving rowing strength and performance. At best, they are an injury prevention exercise.<br /><br />Regards,

[[old] Dickie]

<!--QuoteBegin-Porkchop+Nov 8 2005, 02:15 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Porkchop @ Nov 8 2005, 02:15 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-remador+Nov 8 2005, 08:51 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(remador @ Nov 8 2005, 08:51 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've never tried deadlifts, but it seems that they would be more likely to injure the low back than strengthen it - what should a person concentrate on when doing them?<br /><br />Mark </td></tr></table><br /><br />Mark,<br /><br />It's, actually, a compound exercise which has to be well done to avoid serious injury. I think, asnwering your question, that one should concentrate (I am talking about stiff-leg deadlitfs, not "simple" deadlifts) in keeping the back as straight as possible, not going too low and not locking completely your legs. That should prevent any over compression. Anyway - it's obvious we should start with low weights.<br /><br />AM <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Guys, unless you are planning to do all your rowing with straight legs, I suggest that stiff-legged (or "Romanian") deadlifts will be of limited utility. Like "good mornings," they will strengthen the hamstrings and lower back, but they will do very little to help the leg drive. For that you need to work your quadriceps, too. "Real" deadlifts are my preferred option, since (among free-weight resistance exercises) they probably most closely mimic the action of rowing, followed by squats (you pick the variety -- there are lots of them, and I don't mean to get into an argument on preferable squat type), and then the leg press. If you want to move beyond the range of motion, then maybe power cleans from the floor would be helpful. Beyond that, some would argue for Oly lifts. But regardless of how far you want to take it, stiff-legged deadlifts by themselves are not going to take you very far in improving rowing strength and performance. At best, they are an injury prevention exercise.<br /><br />Regards, <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If the objective is a low pull, then injury prevention exercises are at least as important as anything else (what good is a low pull if you can't get out of the hospital bed to repeat it). I would use deadlifts, Front Squats and Back Squats for injury prevention. I know, I can hear it now, how can I recommend such dangerous exercises for injury prevention? The fact of the matter is, if you can not handle these kinds of exercises and remain injury free, then you should think twice about trying for a low pull. I have several decades of experience with these exercises and I can still feel the strain when going for a low pull.<br /><br />To train for a lower pull, however, I would opt for the olympic movments (Power Clean and Snatch) over power movements (Squat and Deadlift) to better my low pull. I was a power lifter for many years and while I could lift a lot of weight in a past life, this training was not of the type necessary to achieve a powerful pull on the erg. Power on the erg requires strength and speed (emphasis on speed). A deadlift of 600 pounds to a height of 18 inches in 4 seconds (225 ft lbs per second or 0.41 Horsepower or 305 Watts) is less powerful than a clean of 100 pounds to a height of 5 feet in 2 seconds (250 ft lbs per second or .45 Horsepower or 338 Watts).<br /><br />Powerlifting is a misnomer because it is a strength exercise with no time ingredient. Whereas, Power, in the world of physics requires a time ingredient. <br /><br />Power = (Force x distance)/ Time<br /><br />You can be the strongest man in the world, but if you can't apply that tremendous strength quickly then you're just another one of the masses on the erg.<br />