Ranger - News To Shock

[[old] ranger]

Ah, here is an even better one.<br /><br />A basketball drill.<br /><br />Start at the free throw line. Lunge once. Then lunge again and dunk. Catch the ball. Then lunge twice back to the free throw line. Then repeat. Make your lunges come at rates approaching one a second. Do this continuously for 6-7 minutes.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Rowing!<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There's no way on God's green earth that anyone can row 1:39 pace for a HM r20 and keep their HR in the C2 UT2 band. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'm just quoting the C2 manual!<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 8 2006, 06:33 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 8 2006, 06:33 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ah, here is an even better one.<br /><br />A basketball drill.<br /><br />Start at the free throw line. Lunge once. Then lunge again and dunk. Catch the ball. Then lunge twice back to the free throw line. Then repeat. Make your lunges come at rates approaching one a second. Do this continuously for 6-7 minutes.<br /><br />   <br /><br />Rowing!<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Whew! That was tough!<br /><br />O.K. Ready?<br /><br />Now do it again, driving off your heels!<br /><br /> <br /><br />Come on! Use those big levers! Work those quads, gluts, and hams! Be powerful! Avoid those calves and toes! <br /><br /> <br /><br />Ah, feels great. No?<br /><br />Any lactic acid build-up?<br /><br /> <br /><br />Need a hospital?<br /><br />ranger

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 8 2006, 01:41 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 8 2006, 01:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First I'd like to see even a single complete 2k in 7 min @ SR=20 (1:45) out of you.<br /><br />Then you could say how easy that was, and go on to doing it for an hour. (no breaks) </td></tr></table><br /><br />These will be the _results_ of my training next year, not my prerequisite to it, although I might indeed be able to do a 2Kr20 @ 1:45 right now. If a convenient time comes up to try one, I'll give it a go. I am now reaching 1:46 @ 20 spm pretty frequently in my long "rowing with breaks." It is coming very naturally and easily with just natural stroking, when I get my technique right.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Okay, I'll settle for the 2k R20 1:46 without breaks. <br /><br />Until then all you seem to be able to do is just a 60+ minute variable pace piece with a 2:00 avg pace. Actually a 60+ min piece at 2:00 steady without breaks would even be something to see out of you.<br /><br />How many breaks are you planning to take in your upcoming 2k race?<br /><br /><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>IF</span>'s and <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>WHEN</span>'s now, regarding getting technique right? I thought you said it was perfect.<br /><br />I find it remarkable that you consider yourself to be so powerful in the stroke department. I've seen a lot of force profiles and you're about average.<br /><br />What's this about not planting the heels to get a better pace? It seems you've talked both ways about it. Saying that 1:30 with heels down and 1:32 on your toes, but then going off discussing how racing up on your toes was going to somehow be more efficient.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Jan 8 2006, 03:01 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Jan 8 2006, 03:01 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My 60m "PB" is two years old and was done at a paddle simply to get a Nonathlon entry.  I don't now remember if it was r20 or r22, but I could look it up if it really mattered.  I'm pretty sure it was r20.  Minus the stroke restriction it'd be at least 16,700m or more today, i.e. 2k + 12 or better. [right] </td></tr></table><br />If you "could have" gone faster with a higher rating, then why didn't you do it.<br /><br />Have you ever completed a half marathon?<br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 8 2006, 03:10 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 8 2006, 03:10 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I would think quite a few heavyweights could row a HM at faster than 1:34.9 pace.<br /><br />That's only 2k + 10 for those who have gone under 5:40.<br /><br />There are quite a few heavies who have done a 2k at 5:48 or faster, which is a pace of 1:27.<br /><br />If they did the HM at only their 2k + 8, that would be faster than 1:34.9 pace. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John,<br /><br />You are forgetting that those guys doing the sub 5:50 2k's have what's called "serious 2k" speed, which is not the same as your rather lackluster 2k speed. I'm sure any of them that cared to do a HM could provide an equally slow 2k time so the HM could be performed at 2k + 8.

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 8 2006, 07:36 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 8 2006, 07:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Jan 8 2006, 03:01 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Jan 8 2006, 03:01 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My 60m "PB" is two years old and was done at a paddle simply to get a Nonathlon entry.  I don't now remember if it was r20 or r22, but I could look it up if it really mattered.  I'm pretty sure it was r20.  Minus the stroke restriction it'd be at least 16,700m or more today, i.e. 2k + 12 or better. [right] </td></tr></table><br />If you "could have" gone faster with a higher rating, then why didn't you do it.<br /><br />Have you ever completed a half marathon? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />a) Probably because my training program at the time had me working at UT2 intensity;<br /><br /> Yes. And if you'd copied the next sentence instead of truncating my post in premature glee, you would have learned that the HM mentioned in my sig file also was done at restricted stroke rating. Why? Because I can't be bothered to do one at a higher stroke rating just for the sake of doing one. I'm working towards other goals.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Jan 8 2006, 05:20 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Jan 8 2006, 05:20 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the HM mentioned in my sig file also was done at restricted stroke rating.  Why?  Because I can't be bothered to do one at a higher stroke rating[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes that might be too much of a bother.

[[old] John Rupp]

Your halfmarathon is at your 2k + 23.5 seconds.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What's this about not planting the heels to get a better pace? It seems you've talked both ways about it. Saying that 1:30 with heels down and 1:32 on your toes, but then going off discussing how racing up on your toes was going to somehow be more efficient. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I will indeed still train by planting my heels and doing low rate, high power rowing (my "rowing with breaks"), trying to get stronger and stronger, and with that strength, more and more efficient, both mechanically and physiologically. Over time, this type of training does indeed increase the power in your stroke by strengthening anything and everything involved in doing it. And over time, it does indeed teach your cardiovascular system to handle the stress of using this additional strength with equanimity. <br /><br />Nothing wrong with trading some rate for pace, though, when you race; and this what I do when I get up off my heels and row on my toes. Up on my toes, I row more economically by achieving a much higher rate (about 7 spm), albeit with some loss of stroking power (about .75 SPI). On these matters, the benefit of trading rate for pace, JR is exactly right. Even though he is massively strong for his size, Eskild races at about 11 SPI. Even trading rate for pace and rowing on my toes, I will be racing at 12.5 SPI. No need for any more stroking power when I race! If I can get to 35-36 spm for the length of a 2K at this stroking power, I will row 6:16. That's the limits of my potential, I think, and would be 25 seconds (!) faster than anyone my age and weight has ever rowed.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IF's and WHEN's now, regarding getting technique right? I thought you said it was perfect. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have been training. My training technique is indeed fine now. <br /><br />Now, I will be racing. For racing, I will use a slight modification of this training technique. I will row on my toes, trading rate for pace/stroking power in the interest of efficiency.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->trading rate for pace/stroking power i </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry. Got the logic of this wrong. This should read "traditing rate/stroking power for pace."<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How many breaks are you planning to take in your upcoming 2k race? </td></tr></table><br /><br />I will take some nice big breaks in my racing schedule this year, about a week between each of the six 2Ks.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In fact I'd like to see you live up to your lofty expectations as much as anyone. </td></tr></table><br /><br />These aren't just expectations, Nav, they are just entirely reasonable continuations of what I have already done. You speak here and elsewhere as though there is no basis for my plans/claims/goals, that they are some figments of a wild imagination.<br /><br />Not so.<br /><br />At a month or so shy of 53, at BIRC 2003, I rowed 6:28 and broke the 50s lwt WR for the third time, lowering Tardieu's former standard at that time by a full 4 seconds, and in international competition, which involves extensive travel, rotation of sleep schedules, and all of the other wear and tear involved. If rowers slow down 2 seconds per year at this age, this is like rowing 6:22 at 50, right around what you are rowing now at 50, as a 250 lb. heavyweight. That row, had it happened, would have lowered the 50s lwt record, which Tardieu set at 50, not 53, by 10 seconds. In a similar situation, Graham Watt has rowed close to 6:29 (at WIRC 2005).<br /><br />As everyone knows and I have explained at length, I did the 6:28 as a relative newbie without really knowing how to row and without training specifically on my weaknesses. Having now trained away these weaknesses by working on them explicitly for two years without racing, I am now hoping to row 6:24 or better at 55, a couple of seconds slower than the equivalent of my 2003 BIRC row, adjusted to 50. I think this goal is entirely reasonable, given the work that I have put in. If I succeed, I will lower the 55-59 lwt WR by 17 seconds. The hope for this achievement is not coming out the blue, as you seem to think! Given when I took up rowing, how I have trained, and when my races have been done, I have already done the equivalent of lowering my age group record by 10 seconds, which is equivalent to you rowing 5:57 at your present age, 10 seconds under Ripley's 50-54 hwt WR of 6:07, something that you are 23 seconds from achieving. And since that time I have dedicated myself in unusual ways (3-4 hours per day) to becoming even better, something you have yet to do.<br /><br />I guess I just don't see where you are finding the justification to discount my achievements and doubt my expectations, given your accomplishments and commitment to this point. If you were rowing parallel to me in some way, or even beyond me, I suppose I could understand. You might have some insight into these matters that I don't have access to. But at the moment, this is just not the case. Train hard. Row 5:57. Break Ripley's 50s hwt WR by 10 seconds. See what it takes. Then dedicate yourself to getting better for two years by working exclusively on your weaknesses. Then I will listen. You might have something interesting to say and some right to say it.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] george nz]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 9 2006, 07:02 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 9 2006, 07:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IF's and WHEN's now, regarding getting technique right? I thought you said it was perfect. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have been training. My training technique is indeed fine now. <br /><br />Now, I will be racing. For racing, I will use a slight modification of this training technique. I will row on my toes, trading rate for pace/stroking power in the interest of efficiency.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />So you habituate a technique then a couple of weeks out from your first race you decide to change it, thats somewhat unusual to say the least. You have work for nearly 3 years developing muscular co-ordination of your 'peripheral' levers and now ????<br /><br />First the drag changes, now the technique, some would describe that as desperation (tho not me of course)<br /><br />George