Training Program For Long Beach Sprints And Crashb

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » February 1st, 2006, 8:01 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(JaapR @ Feb 1 2006, 04:40 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>So, after all the discussion about negative splitting, flat race and fly/die, which has it become? Did you take the first 18 strokes at -3 (1:32) as in Xeno's strategy, or did you race a flat 1:35?<br />Are there any other indoor rowing events you are training for, or will we see you online with RowPro soon? <br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />No hard strokes at the beginning and from then on a completely flat row with the average between 1:34.9 and 1:35.1 all the way to the end where I was so tired that I did not take the last stroke and decided to glide in --- sure enough the average ticked up to 1:35.2.<br /><br />The row was so bad that I seriously thought about quitting with 200m to go!<br /><br />The problem was that the facility was very warm and dry and I warmed up at 1:40.2 for 6 minutes after which I was really warm!<br /><br />I do have an internet connection now at my house in Carinthia so I could take part in rowpro races. I won't do it very often though. I do want to continue with Xeno's training plan doing the 3 times seven minutes once a week, a fast 1K once a week and easy steady state rowing otherwise.

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » February 1st, 2006, 8:11 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(JaapR @ Feb 1 2006, 02:40 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(H_2O @ Jan 29 2006, 04:31 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The Austrian IRC took place today and I raced in the 40-49 age group.<br />I took second in 6:20.7.<br />It was a good competition as the winner in my age group pulled 6:08.8 and third place was 6:25.<br />The winner is a truly outstanding athlete as he is at most 6 feet tall. It is a pity I could not watch him row.<br /><br />The company was also quite illustrious as one of the participants was a multiple world champion in the lightweight single scull. The lightweights had to compete with the heavyweights in all Masters divisions.<br /><br />I completely credit Xeno's plan for my time. Just before he published his plan I was in such dreadful shape that I seriously thought about not taking part in the competition, unsure wether I would be able to go under 6:30.<br /><br />I am now hooked on this approach to training and will stick with it.<br /><br />Thanks Xeno! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Michael,<br />Congratulations with the PB. So, after all the discussion about negative splitting, flat race and fly/die, which has it become? Did you take the first 18 strokes at -3 (1:32) as in Xeno's strategy, or did you race a flat 1:35?<br />Are there any other indoor rowing events you are training for, or will we see you online with RowPro soon? <br /><br />I just read through all the pages in this thread, and realize that I may have done too much interval at high intensity this season. Or maybe just not enough steady state. Most of the 65k/week (5 sessions) were done in online races and AT/TR/AN intervals. Maybe once a week a UT1 (e.g. 3x15 at 1:47), but almost never UT2. Problem is that since I don't like doing the UT2, get bored. But reading through this thread it really seems I just have to if I want to get faster. <br /><br />Thanks for all the input Xeno, Michael and others!<br /><br />Jaap <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Jaap<br />You are hitting the nail on the head. Steady state becomes brain numbgin. To avoid brain shrinkage as a full time athlete, I used to row in the morning and my second workout would be cross training.<br />XENO

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » February 1st, 2006, 8:15 pm

I was thumbing through the world ranking and found the people rowing 6Million since May first and D Adams 12 million! Back in the day I would row 5million meters to prepare for a world championship or an Olympics.<br />I don't know how they have the patience to row like that. <br />XENO

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » February 1st, 2006, 9:27 pm

Tonight I did my 75-minute workout at r21 and broke it into 3 25-minute pieces, w/ 3-min rest for stretching and fluid.<br /><br />Worked at 60-min pace + 8.5/500, which is about 6 sec/500 faster than I was doing the r18 work. My HR at the end of the pieces ranged from 59% to 68% (using HRR method). Average HR was only slightly lower. With the short break and the fluid, I seem to experience far less drift. I expect I should be doing this session at a slightly faster pace for optimal results, but my endurance is relatively poor, so I won't be accelerating fast.<br /><br />Thanx to all for the suggestions. <br /><br />Tom<br /><br /><br />

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » February 1st, 2006, 9:44 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ Feb 1 2006, 08:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Tonight I did my 75-minute workout at r21 and broke it into 3 25-minute pieces, w/ 3-min rest for stretching and fluid.<br /><br />Worked at 60-min pace + 8.5/500, which is about 6 sec/500 faster than I was doing the r18 work. My HR at the end of the pieces ranged from 59% to 68% (using HRR method). Average HR was only slightly lower. With the short break and the fluid, I seem to experience far less drift. I expect I should be doing this session at a slightly faster pace for optimal results, but my endurance is relatively poor, so I won't be accelerating fast.<br /><br />Thanx to all for the suggestions. <br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You have better HR values than me.<br />Did you put some carbohydrates in your drink?<br />See<br /><a href='http://health.csusb.edu/dchen/sports%20 ... hapter.htm' target='_blank'>http://health.csusb.edu/dchen/sports%20 ... htm</a><br />(scroll down to "BRANCHED CHAIN AMINO ACIDS").<br />

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » February 1st, 2006, 9:56 pm

My drink was about 1/3 fruit juice drink (which means water, juice concentrate, and high fructose corn syrup) and about 2/3 water, with a couple of pinches of salt. I drank approx 6 ounces before I started and 6 ounces during each rest. <br /><br />Nothing scientific about it, just water, flavoring, sugar, and sodium.<br /><br />Tom

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » February 2nd, 2006, 1:26 am

Nice session Tom, did the it 'feel' any different with the breaks from a mental perspective - more manageable or better technique / concentration<br /><br />George

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » February 2nd, 2006, 12:03 pm

The session seems more manageable. The most you've ever got to row is 25 minutes--piece of cake. And somehow as a consequence, I would say I am better able to focus on technique from time to time--insofar as I have any technique. <br /><br />Of course, there is a risk that this "rowing w/ breaks" will lead to other flaws: self-aggrandizement, dubious reporting of workouts, and inadequate race preparation<br /><br />Tom

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » February 2nd, 2006, 11:33 pm

Xeno,<br /><br />I am not really doing your training plan, but find it interesting and appreciate all the info that you have been giving us. In reading it over, I am struck by fact that there are short rows in the middle of longer sessions at "race pace" like 2x500 or a 1k, but no interval sessions like 8x500 at below 2k pace (some plans seem to be 2k-2 or -3). I like the idea of training at race pace, and conditioning myself to hold that pace, so this is attractive to me.<br /><br />Am I missing the sessions that are supposed to be below race pace (like the 15 secs on and off?)? What is your view on sessions at below race pace, and on extended sets of intervals like 4x1000 or 8x500?<br /><br />thanks.

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » February 3rd, 2006, 2:15 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(michaelb @ Feb 2 2006, 08:33 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Xeno,<br /><br />I am not really doing your training plan, but find it interesting and appreciate all the info that you have been giving us. In reading it over, I am struck by fact that there are short rows in the middle of longer sessions at "race pace" like 2x500 or a 1k, but no interval sessions like 8x500 at below 2k pace (some plans seem to be 2k-2 or -3). I like the idea of training at race pace, and conditioning myself to hold that pace, so this is attractive to me.<br /><br />Am I missing the sessions that are supposed to be below race pace (like the 15 secs on and off?)? What is your view on sessions at below race pace, and on extended sets of intervals like 4x1000 or 8x500?<br /><br />thanks. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Michael<br />The 4X1000 or 8X500 are, if done "all out" extremely taxing on the body. Those types of trainings were done in the seventies and eighties and still today. The physiological effect of such efforts is acidosis of the muscle tissues. For an individual athlete who competes on a rowing machine 1/3 of such workouts is enough. HOWEVER in case of a crew of eight on the water, such practices are more beneficial with the goal to handle boat skill while being under extreme physical pressure. The 15 sec on and off teach the body/neuromuscular systeme how to attack strokes that are far below race pace without going into lactic acid overproduction. The 250 meter sprints are hard enough to generate HIGH lactic acid. <br />XENO I will work on a training program which incorporates weights in the near future, of course very similar to what Marty (my former coach did with me).

[old] Spectre · Post by **[old] Spectre** » February 3rd, 2006, 1:31 pm

ARG! I wish I had come accross this thred a few months ago. I am racing on Feb 12, and I think I have spent too much time on the speed work. Xeno; this training plan is similar to the plans I did as a highschool rower in Canada. <br /><br />I am returning to rowing after a very long break (10 yrs) and totally forgot how to prepare for racing. I have been doing all those 8x500 and 4x2000 stuff and now I feel sluggish. I thought I had a good base from distance running but I find that I just die at about the 1300m mark. any suggestions for a quick taper (i know one week left is kind of late in the game). thanks guys.

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » February 3rd, 2006, 3:20 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Spectre @ Feb 3 2006, 10:31 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>ARG! I wish I had come accross this thred a few months ago. I am racing on Feb 12, and I think I have spent too much time on the speed work. Xeno; this training plan is similar to the plans I did as a highschool rower in Canada. <br /><br />I am returning to rowing after a very long break (10 yrs) and totally forgot how to prepare for racing. I have been doing all those 8x500 and 4x2000 stuff and now I feel sluggish. I thought I had a good base from distance running but I find that I just die at about the 1300m mark. any suggestions for a quick taper (i know one week left is kind of late in the game). thanks guys. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi,<br />It won't hurt to do some aerobic pieces until your race, in the contrary.<br />XENO

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » February 3rd, 2006, 3:38 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Xeno @ Feb 2 2006, 11:15 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(michaelb @ Feb 2 2006, 08:33 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Xeno,<br /><br />I am not really doing your training plan, but find it interesting and appreciate all the info that you have been giving us. In reading it over, I am struck by fact that there are short rows in the middle of longer sessions at "race pace" like 2x500 or a 1k, but no interval sessions like 8x500 at below 2k pace (some plans seem to be 2k-2 or -3). I like the idea of training at race pace, and conditioning myself to hold that pace, so this is attractive to me.<br /><br />Am I missing the sessions that are supposed to be below race pace (like the 15 secs on and off?)? What is your view on sessions at below race pace, and on extended sets of intervals like 4x1000 or 8x500?<br /><br />thanks. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Michael<br />The 4X1000 or 8X500 are, if done "all out" extremely taxing on the body. Those types of trainings were done in the seventies and eighties and still today. The physiological effect of such efforts is acidosis of the muscle tissues. For an individual athlete who competes on a rowing machine 1/3 of such workouts is enough. HOWEVER in case of a crew of eight on the water, such practices are more beneficial with the goal to handle boat skill while being under extreme physical pressure. The 15 sec on and off teach the body/neuromuscular systeme how to attack strokes that are far below race pace without going into lactic acid overproduction. The 250 meter sprints are hard enough to generate HIGH lactic acid. <br />XENO I will work on a training program which incorporates weights in the near future, of course very similar to what Marty (my former coach did with me). <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Xeno,<br /><br />I have a quesition on Lactate measurement, which I have recently started thanks to your inputs. I understand that 2mmol is the main training goal, and that 4mmol is a good benchmark for evaluation. In light of these comments on the occasional high intensity workouts, is there a level of Lactate that you would consider a maximum that one should always steer clear of, either by limiting duration, or extensive rest periods? Where the destruction of aerobic systems really begins to take off? I know this is invariably the case during a race, but for training, it seems such a guideline could be key to avoiding overtraining.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Doug

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » February 3rd, 2006, 6:15 pm

Doug,<br /><br />When is your race?

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » February 3rd, 2006, 9:06 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Feb 3 2006, 12:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Xeno @ Feb 2 2006, 11:15 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(michaelb @ Feb 2 2006, 08:33 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Xeno,<br /><br />I am not really doing your training plan, but find it interesting and appreciate all the info that you have been giving us. In reading it over, I am struck by fact that there are short rows in the middle of longer sessions at "race pace" like 2x500 or a 1k, but no interval sessions like 8x500 at below 2k pace (some plans seem to be 2k-2 or -3). I like the idea of training at race pace, and conditioning myself to hold that pace, so this is attractive to me.<br /><br />Am I missing the sessions that are supposed to be below race pace (like the 15 secs on and off?)? What is your view on sessions at below race pace, and on extended sets of intervals like 4x1000 or 8x500?<br /><br />thanks. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Michael<br />The 4X1000 or 8X500 are, if done "all out" extremely taxing on the body. Those types of trainings were done in the seventies and eighties and still today. The physiological effect of such efforts is acidosis of the muscle tissues. For an individual athlete who competes on a rowing machine 1/3 of such workouts is enough. HOWEVER in case of a crew of eight on the water, such practices are more beneficial with the goal to handle boat skill while being under extreme physical pressure. The 15 sec on and off teach the body/neuromuscular systeme how to attack strokes that are far below race pace without going into lactic acid overproduction. The 250 meter sprints are hard enough to generate HIGH lactic acid. <br />XENO I will work on a training program which incorporates weights in the near future, of course very similar to what Marty (my former coach did with me). <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Xeno,<br /><br />I have a quesition on Lactate measurement, which I have recently started thanks to your inputs. I understand that 2mmol is the main training goal, and that 4mmol is a good benchmark for evaluation. In light of these comments on the occasional high intensity workouts, is there a level of Lactate that you would consider a maximum that one should always steer clear of, either by limiting duration, or extensive rest periods? Where the destruction of aerobic systems really begins to take off? I know this is invariably the case during a race, but for training, it seems such a guideline could be key to avoiding overtraining.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Doug <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Doug<br /><br />In my case we did not worry about how high the lactate levels would go shortly after different hard pieces. However, I am certain that if my coach had lived closer, we would have done more monitoring. <br /><br />Hard workouts would be the 7 min pieces, or pyramids. All out race pace workouts would have plenty of rest.