Strapless Rowing

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » August 25th, 2005, 7:33 pm

I remember the good ol' days when my coach, Paavo Nurmi, timed me for a 5000 meters. <br /><br />Lasse Viren was visiting from Finland and observing, so I wanted to run hard and fast, figuring that the best philosophy was to run to change the world, rather than simply going for a fast time or winning.<br /><br />Thus I set out and broke the world record for that time, which was 13:11 or so. Actually Paavo didn't tell me the time for a few days, and it turned out to be 12:36.8, which is still faster than the world record today. Now this was on an old dirt track though, not a new one like they have today. And a standout woman from the junior varsity swimming team was running against me but I finished the 12 1/2 laps before her.<br /><br />After that I got a sore foot so was not able to train as hard as before.<br /><br />A few years ago I got serious again and have been enjoying my running and rowing very much.<br /><br />Okay enough of this bull shit. <br /><br />P.S. Anytime you want to know anything, just ask me. And I'll tell you.

[old] Neb154 · Post by **[old] Neb154** » August 25th, 2005, 7:43 pm

I'm just wondering how you manged to pull sub 6-minutes for 4 miles which would be (4 * 1609) = 6436 meters.

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » August 25th, 2005, 7:50 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Neb154 @ Aug 25 2005, 07:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I'm just wondering how you manged to pull sub 6-minutes for 4 miles which would be (4 * 1609) = 6436 meters. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The old model A had a different gearing. I think I read where a mile equalled 500 meters with the old gearing, therefore this would actually be a 2k time equivalent.

[old] Neb154 · Post by **[old] Neb154** » August 25th, 2005, 8:38 pm

Oooh, Makes much more sense

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » August 26th, 2005, 11:27 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Aug 25 2005, 04:33 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Okay enough of this bull shit. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You are going to stop posting? Please, say it isn't so! PATT is some of the best BS I've ever seen.

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » August 26th, 2005, 11:44 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Neb154 @ Aug 25 2005, 08:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Oooh, Makes much more sense <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It is odd, but the early versions must not have been designed to parallel the real world. This ratio of 500m to 1 mile for the Model A with a particular disc or something inside was confirmed by C2.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » August 26th, 2005, 12:41 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(bmoore @ Aug 26 2005, 08:44 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Neb154 @ Aug 25 2005, 08:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Oooh, Makes much more sense <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It is odd, but the early versions must not have been designed to parallel the real world. This ratio of 500m to 1 mile for the Model A with a particular disc or something inside was confirmed by C2. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The Model A "PM" was literally a Analog Speedometer with a resetable Odometer, the type we had on our bicycles in the 70's (and probably earlier). The Speedo went to 50mph and the first type of pick-up from the flywheel (A spoked cycle wheel with an Iron "tire" and plastic vanes in the spokes for resistance.) was soon found to result in the "pegging" of the speedometer and was replaced with a pickup that reduced the indicated speed by 9mph, making the "pegging" much more difficult to accomplish. (probably easier on the Speedometer too.)<br /><br />Since there was no accounting for Drag Factor, it was important to set the machine up to allow for free airflow (3 feet of open space to both sides and off the end was what I remember as the suggested standard). Timing of pieces was usually done by looking at a wall clock with a second hand, as there was no "automatic" timing as with the electronic PM's. Testing was timed with stopwatches in the hands of coxswains, and the early Ergomania's and CRASH-B's were done with stopwatches at each machine, no-one would know the relative positions of others in their "race" (really a time trial), which probably resulted in the greater likelihood of ending up "on the floor", since the only course of action for everyone was to go "all out". Not that this doesn't happen these days, but at least the top few know where they are, whereas there was no way to know that at the time.<br /><br />I still have a Model A in fine condition, but even so, it's quite a "rattle trap" compared to even the Model B (which is the last of the satisfying sound generators in the Erg Family, IMO.).<br /><br />Another "Blast from the past" for the Forum.

[old] Porkchop · Post by **[old] Porkchop** » August 26th, 2005, 6:49 pm

Paul,<br /><br />Is your avatar a metaphor for your ongoing "conversations" with "him who must not be named"?

[old] mark12_30 · Post by **[old] mark12_30** » August 27th, 2005, 1:18 pm

You all got me inspired & I tried strapless. <br />The old sweep-eight drills from the 80's helped me out very much:<br />Pick drill, swing-pick, 1/4 slide, half slide, 3/4 slide. ***<br /><br />Anyway, it seemed good; was able to concentrate on the controlled layback very well. I plan to neglect those straps whenever I'm not sprinting.<br /><br />mark12_30<br /><br />*** (For dry-land-only rowers: <br />pick-drill is arms only in full layback, legs straightish. <br />For swing-pick, add just the back. <br />Then slowly progress up the slide..)

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » August 28th, 2005, 10:03 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Porkchop @ Aug 26 2005, 03:49 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Paul,<br /><br />Is your avatar a metaphor for your ongoing "conversations" with "him who must not be named"? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Nah, it's much more general than that, but still specific to Rowing and the Coaching thereof. <br /><br />The other would be more like... <img src='http://www.ps-sport.net/econs/banghead.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

[old] bonce · Post by **[old] bonce** » September 10th, 2005, 5:52 pm

As a newcomer to this forum, this is all a great read! It seems to have moved away from strapless rowing a bit, but anway...<br /><br />My understanding of the rationale was that it trained the oarsman to bring his hands away and bodyweight forward onto his feet, clearing the blade at the end of the stroke in a 'clean' finish and also take weight back from the bow of the boat, allowing the boat to run better between strokes. <br /><br />I have 'fond' memories of training 'shoes off' in boats - ie strapless. (20+ years ago!!) It was always hard, especially in choppy water. You soon learnt to get and maintain a smooth clean finish to each stroke because you paid for it if you caught your blade on the wash of your puddle. It got the whole crew finishing together too. Obviously, messy finishes, catching your blade etc add drag to the boat - through 'pulling' yourself forward with your feet.<br /><br />Also, if you don't do this when going full throttle, it tires your quads and abs to be holding a 'lean-back' position more than momentarily, and so it makes sense to adopt the same sort of stroke rhythm on an indoor rower. A smooth slick finish has to then be followed by a steady movement up the slide as you 'coil' your legs for the next stroke, again avoiding any disturbance to the run of the boat.<br /><br />Still reading? Well it seems to work for me anyway... <br /><br /><br /><br />

[old] I Love Crew · Post by **[old] I Love Crew** » September 30th, 2005, 7:56 pm

I'm new to rowing (it's just been a month). I don't find the straps encouraging me to "haul myself back down the slide". I just like them to help keep my feet in place, because especially when I start to get tired, my feet otherwise shift a bit. This is especially true when I'm going at over 35 spm. So I don't see the disavantage of having straps. Perhaps it may change as I get more experience...

[old] Steelhead · Post by **[old] Steelhead** » September 30th, 2005, 11:22 pm

I have a question: if 1609.344 metres equals one mile, then how is it on a Model A that 500 metres equals one mile? Just curious.<br /><br />Mike<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Aug 26 2005, 09:41 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(bmoore @ Aug 26 2005, 08:44 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Neb154 @ Aug 25 2005, 08:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Oooh, Makes much more sense <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It is odd, but the early versions must not have been designed to parallel the real world. This ratio of 500m to 1 mile for the Model A with a particular disc or something inside was confirmed by C2. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The Model A "PM" was literally a Analog Speedometer with a resetable Odometer, the type we had on our bicycles in the 70's (and probably earlier). The Speedo went to 50mph and the first type of pick-up from the flywheel (A spoked cycle wheel with an Iron "tire" and plastic vanes in the spokes for resistance.) was soon found to result in the "pegging" of the speedometer and was replaced with a pickup that reduced the indicated speed by 9mph, making the "pegging" much more difficult to accomplish. (probably easier on the Speedometer too.)<br /><br />Since there was no accounting for Drag Factor, it was important to set the machine up to allow for free airflow (3 feet of open space to both sides and off the end was what I remember as the suggested standard). Timing of pieces was usually done by looking at a wall clock with a second hand, as there was no "automatic" timing as with the electronic PM's. Testing was timed with stopwatches in the hands of coxswains, and the early Ergomania's and CRASH-B's were done with stopwatches at each machine, no-one would know the relative positions of others in their "race" (really a time trial), which probably resulted in the greater likelihood of ending up "on the floor", since the only course of action for everyone was to go "all out". Not that this doesn't happen these days, but at least the top few know where they are, whereas there was no way to know that at the time.<br /><br />I still have a Model A in fine condition, but even so, it's quite a "rattle trap" compared to even the Model B (which is the last of the satisfying sound generators in the Erg Family, IMO.).<br /><br />Another "Blast from the past" for the Forum. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />

[old] NightRower · Post by **[old] NightRower** » October 1st, 2005, 8:27 am

OK, a few stupid questions.<br /><br />1. What is an Iggie bin? <br /><br />2. Is strapless rowing a good way to reduce SPM and increase DPS and strength? I find after a long row (like a half marathon) I can feel some more fatigue in the front of my legs. Would strapless rowing be a good training method? <br /><br />I am trying to increase my times and am curious for any and all advice. <br /><br />Darren

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » October 1st, 2005, 3:08 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NightRower @ Oct 1 2005, 05:27 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>OK, a few stupid questions.<br /><br />1. What is an Iggie bin? <br /><br />2. Is strapless rowing a good way to reduce SPM and increase DPS and strength? I find after a long row (like a half marathon) I can feel some more fatigue in the front of my legs. Would strapless rowing be a good training method? <br /><br />I am trying to increase my times and am curious for any and all advice. <br /><br />Darren <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />1. It is the honorary place in which John Rupp places people with which he does not like to have discussions with.<br /><br />2. Yes.<br /><br />3. It's easy to "increase your times", simply row a few more minutes. <br /><br /><br /><br />Steelhead,<br /><br />A Mod A 1 mile (as measured on the "PM" of the time, an analog Speedo/ODO) is equivalent in terms of power production to 500m on the PM2 and PM3. C2 was just kind enough to put the feedback unit of PACE into something simple enough for rowers to deal with. <br /><br />Cheers!

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