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[old] Niall · Post by **[old] Niall** » October 18th, 2004, 12:48 am

Firstly, I must say it's great to see so many PBs being published. This truly reflects the abilities and drive of the individual team members aswell as the collective motivation and support of the TA team. I would certainly like to see Chris's splits for his new 10K PB as his old time is around my current season's best and I would love to dip under 39:00. Secondly, I'm sad to have to report that my session yesterday was no where near as successful as everyone else's. Spurred on by the recent PBs aswell as Martin's reminder that a sub-7:00 2K was still outstanding, I decided to do a 2K time trial yesterday. Convinced that my technique was preventing me from reaching the heady heights of 32-36spm, I prepared by watching the Mens' Coxless Fours Final at Athens. I noticed their bum movement was a lot shorter than mine and they pushed off with their legs at about 90-degress. Fuelled with this new insight, I did a 2K warmup (8:09 time) broke for a minute and then dived into my time trial (not before upping the drag factor from my normal 124 to 139 as I thought it would help with the time). All started well and my stroke rate was around 33spm. After 500m I was unable to maintain the 1:45 pace I'd started with tried settling into a 1:50 pace. I really started to struggle in the 4th quarter and absent of the sort of lion-hearted focus of Chris, I blew up with 340m to go . Splits for the first three 500s were: 1:46.6 (32spm) 1:51.1 (30) 1:51.8 (30) So, no large, red text for me to report unfortunately!! Lessons learnt: 1) Don't change the DF unless you've already trained for it 2) Do some specific training for 2K (I'm going to do 4x500K with 1-minute break on Wednesday) 3) Don't introduce radical changes (DF) without training under those conditions 4) Increase lactate acid threshold through targetted training 5) Work on technique for maintaining (comfortably) stroke rates in lower 30s It's back to gentle 10K today (back to what I know best and am used to!). I need to put yesterday's disastrous 2K(ish) row behind me. Thanks for listening guys...

[old] AussieTaff · Post by **[old] AussieTaff** » October 18th, 2004, 2:55 am

Gutsy attempt Niall - remember it wasn't a 'failure', just an exploratory time trial. I do that all the time to get the body/mind ready for a 2K or shorter distance assault to 'test the water' so to speak. Especially after a diet of long easyish rows. VERY hard I suspect (not having tried it since the early days of erging) to hold 30+ SPM with a DF of 139 without lactic acid induced 'blow up' occuring before halfway. Next time trial try usual DF (125) and 32 SPM or 135 DF and 28 SPM to see what suits your (powerful - I know it must be such as there are few skinny/lanky hookers in Welsh packs ) build, reach and strength. And aim to hold 1:47's, given your current PB is 1:49's a jump to 1:45's may be unrealistic ? 1:47's will give you the ideal springboard of 7:08 to launch a final assault on the goal - it did for me anyway. Great post, I'm now inspired to get stuck into my 2K pb next gym visit. Forget the easy 10K's, BIRC is just around the corner - get that 2K !!!!!! Cheers matey, Martin PS 4 x 500K - you must be REALLY cheesed off !!!!! At least have a 2 min break in between

[old] Prufrock · Post by **[old] Prufrock** » October 18th, 2004, 6:12 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Niall @ Oct 17 2004, 11:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Lessons learnt: 1) Don't change the DF unless you've already trained for it 2) Do some specific training for 2K (I'm going to do 4x500K with 1-minute break on Wednesday) 3) Don't introduce radical changes (DF) without training under those conditions 4) Increase lactate acid threshold through targetted training 5) Work on technique for maintaining (comfortably) stroke rates in lower 30s It's back to gentle 10K today (back to what I know best and am used to!). I need to put yesterday's disastrous 2K(ish) row behind me. Thanks for listening guys...  </td></tr></table> Hi Niall It's important to learn these lessons if you want to improve. This is what I have found. In the end this sport boils down to individual responsibility and personal performances, so I guess it's up to you what you want out of your erging/rowing, but I enjoy improving, however slowly, and I guess you have a similar attitude. I should be gloating that you didn't get to break 7 minutes before me, so why do I feel so sad If it is any consolation that very self same thing has happened to me a couple of months ago and it happened at a time when I had just come back from an enforced break. I mistook the ease with which I was doing my UT1 and UT2 rows as a sign of readiness for a serious attempt at my 7'30" BIRC goal. Rowed my first 500 metres at 1'45", my second at 1'50", felt uncomfortable but then I always feel uncomfortable, but thought I could last it. At 1600, after a 1'53" third 500 metres, I couldn't breathe and my arms felt dead. The end. I rowed too fast, no discipline, no plan, just rowed like a retarded chimp. My own fault! I honestly think it was the best thing to happen to me so far as it slaped any overconfidence out of me and taught me to have a healthy respect for myself and the 2000 metre distance. I am no coach but I learned the basic lesson of ensuring I train properly at each stage of my training. This is a time for sharp and intense stuff not for long rows. Try 4x1000 with 3 minutes in between and 8x500 with 2x3 minutes in between once each a week with a long row to recover the following day. The stuff I've learned about myself, this darned rowing addiction and how to train properly, without straining or paining; working very hard but not too hard, have been invaluable. More importantly, you realise there is no such thing as failure, just a slight delay in reaching your goal. Bernard

[old] Godfried · Post by **[old] Godfried** » October 18th, 2004, 11:36 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Prufrock @ Oct 18 2004, 12:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>More importantly, you realise there is no such thing as failure, just a slight delay in reaching your goal. </td></tr></table> Beautiful.

[old] Niall · Post by **[old] Niall** » October 18th, 2004, 12:27 pm

Martin/Bernard, Many thanks for your enlightening and insightful words of reflection regarding my "exploratory time trial", it's just what I wanted to hear. Both your personal experiences mirror my recent ones so it's great to know that I may well be a couple of months away from 2K success. I just need to be patient and put in the right meters in terms of distance and power. And as for you Bernard, I put in 24K today as I thought that would be enough to overtake you in the team standings. I added in my rowing sessions to my Personal logbook only to find you'd put in over 12K so I'm playing catchup (as usual!!). I can see I'm going to have to keep an eye on you . Putting in the 24K (10K this morning then a 10K and 4K lunchtime) was hard work so I'm going to leave my morning row tomorrow and see if I can close the gap a bit more in the afternoon. Once again, and I've said this many times, Taff Attack is without doubt the numero uno team for friendliness, motivation, support and laughs! Thanks guys!

[old] Prufrock · Post by **[old] Prufrock** » October 18th, 2004, 12:53 pm

Niall Another 15k tonight and 10k tomorrow morning. I'm away in Brighton on business on Tuesday night and Wednesday, so I guess you will have overtaken me when I sit down again on Thursday. There's no erg where I'm staying and anyway I have to attend an intense set of meetings. Boy, you're a pain!!! Actually, the words I used were a little more anglo-saxon, but this is *$!)ing public forum. Bernard

[old] Niall · Post by **[old] Niall** » October 18th, 2004, 12:59 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Boy, you're a pain!!! </td></tr></table> Likewise, if you weren't doing so much rowing, I'd have passed you sooner. Let's both be pains and watch the team metres increase accordingly. So by my calculations I need to do about 37K Tuesday/Wednesday just to be equal. It's going to be close! You could always try and extra 1K after your 15K and/or 10K just to add some extra pressure!?

[old] Bore Da! · Post by **[old] Bore Da!** » October 18th, 2004, 4:11 pm

Niall, Don't feel deflated by your recent 2k attempt. I think the 2k is such a killer - its at the mentally toughest heart rate of all, and it ain't over quick either. Ever time I do it, I'm thinking 'how will I last?' I agree with martins comments that 7:08 is a good springboard (where I actually was in April this year - so you will do it!). In my limited experience I would also add the following. In the races Chippy and myself have competed at, the big lesson has been 'the 10 hard pulls at the beginning'. This uses your maximum strength, and you can pull them without building up latic acid - you heart rate will climb, but its gunna anyway, right? If you try and go off @ 1.35ish (10 pulls only) then gradually ramp down to settle into race pace, you'll have done 400m ahead of schedule and you wont even notice it. Now you can row below your pace for 1200 meters (3 minutes ish - piece of p*ss) then you only got 400 left to do - empty the tank man! After the row just lie horizontal with the dog licking your face, until your eyes open, and your feet stop screaming 'your a stupid b*****d' at you. On reaching vertical again, check out the monitor. oh yeah - you gotta love the pain! Row On mate, Chris

[old] Daren C · Post by **[old] Daren C** » October 18th, 2004, 5:09 pm

I echo what everyone else has said about 2k. It's the toughest piece to do, I reckon, by some way. You have to be in the right frame of mind to tackle it, and in decent form. My recent 2k PB followed an "exploratory attempt" that was 6 seconds slower than my current PB at the time. It did, however, enable me to pace the later successful 2k attempt, and at the same time giving me an idea of where I was at. Keep it up and you'll nail it. For my part, I've had a pretty quiet time since I passed the million metres. After weeks totalling 140,000m, 160,000m and then 180,000m, last week was only 75,000m. I did do a half marathon on Saturday, but then I did nothing at all on Sunday. I also did nothing today until this evening's session. To be honest, I was thinking that since I'd been rowing less, I may have gone backwards even, let alone stood still. In the end, I need not have worried. I sat down to do a 30 minute piece, planning on a comfortable pace. My best was 7,617m (1:58.2) so I was aiming at something like 7400 (2:01.6). As I started, I thought it felt easier than expected, so I went faster. It looked like a good distance was on the cards, and although I slowed in the latter half, I held on for an average pace of 1:53.8 or 7910m. A new PB by nearly 300m, and rather a surprise. Perhaps the rest did me good. =)

[old] AussieTaff · Post by **[old] AussieTaff** » October 18th, 2004, 8:12 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Daren C @ Oct 18 2004, 04:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I sat down to do a 30 minute piece, planning on a comfortable pace. My best was 7,617m (1:58.2) so I was aiming at something like 7400 (2:01.6). As I started, I thought it felt easier than expected, so I went faster. It looked like a good distance was on the cards, and although I slowed in the latter half, I held on for an average pace of 1:53.8 or 7910m. A new PB by nearly 300m, and rather a surprise. Perhaps the rest did me good. =) </td></tr></table> What a superb post Daren. you really are the master of the understatement !!!! "Aiming at 2:01 pace for 30 mins, ended up doing 1:53 pace" and "slowed in the latter half" (what was the first half - 1:45's ?! ). Brilliant. And the row was pretty good too ! All those K's in the legs are starting to pay off. Now those 10K and 60 min times are looking a bit 'soft' - time to update your signature. Look out Chris, we've got a 'new kid' on the block. Great stuff, Martin

[old] Niall · Post by **[old] Niall** » October 19th, 2004, 12:26 am

Daren, You really are making fantastic progress. Adding 300m to your 30-minute PB is just astounding . As Martin says, it's time to update your signature so we can see how your recent PBs fit in with the rest of your times and maybe attempt to update some of your other PBs as it certainly sounds like you've reached a new level of performance right now. Well done!

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » October 19th, 2004, 12:37 am

Geez, I take a nap for 3 days and everyone breaks records left and right! What a bunch of great inspiring posts. Congratulations on your new 30 min, Daren! And Chris on your 10K! Just did some meters for the "TaffyBank" today--nothing special, just 2 pokey 6Ks but nothing's hurting so that's good news! You know I gotta catch up to that Aussie Taff and stay ahead of MikeZ! I hope Sue and Graham are having fun in NYC. Carla

[old] Mikez · Post by **[old] Mikez** » October 19th, 2004, 1:39 am

Just did some meters for the "TaffyBank" today--nothing special, just 2 pokey 6Ks but nothing's hurting so that's good news! You know I gotta catch up to that Aussie Taff and stay ahead of MikeZ! Carla, glad to see you back on the erg. I was trying a sneak pass on you tonight and then after putting in those extra meters I saw you back there erging onward. Makes me proud after your injury. Keep it up. Boy Martin and Bernard, 15k and then 10 k's you are going to be a great inspiration for me to increase my numbers. Glad to be Taff. Mike

[old] AussieTaff · Post by **[old] AussieTaff** » October 19th, 2004, 3:43 am

Hi all, Felt inspired by Chippy/Niall's "Glory or Death" rows, all the talk of 2K race tactics and Chris out there on a sub 6:50. Time to "erg the Talk" methinks as I do a 10 minute warmup at the gym. Warmup includes bursts at 1:45 to get nice and puffing, just like rowing down to the start of a 2000 metre race 30 years ago (old habits certainly die hard) ! Here's how the 2K unfolded - not 100% sure of the decimal point figure in the ave pace 500m splits as they are from memory but they would be pretty close. 500m - 1:41.8 ....... Visions of going close to Chris/Rickster 1000m - 1:44.1 ..... Vision starting to fade 1500m - 1:45.1 ..... Vision totally out of focus 2000m - 1:44.8 ..... Everything out of focus ! End result, a new PB of 6:55.2 at 1:43.8 Ave Pace, 32 SPM, DF 117. Old PB 6:57.5. Nonathlon points increased by 5 I think !!! (B... heck, all that for 5 points) Reflections for aspiring sub 7ners :- ... Essential to be able to hold 1:45's when the going gets tough in the middle stages. Train for it. ... Bernie is spot on when he said in a recent post "to race/PB a 2K one must train for a 2K" or words to that effect. The only thing all the long rows did for me was make 2K seem pretty short !! All those long periods of 1:55's no substitute when trying to sit on 1:45's !!! Well Chris/Ricky, youse safe for a while til I can convert 1:45's into 1:43's. At least I have a 5 second buffer when the Taff hordes swarm all over that 7 min wall !!! Great to see you back Carla. Some fascinating 'duels' on the Metres Board - Carla vs Mike with me not far in front Chippy vs "Back from the Dead" Chris with Debbie not far behind Bernard vs Niall Sue vs Graham Good stuff Martin

[old] Daren C · Post by **[old] Daren C** » October 19th, 2004, 3:54 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (AussieTaff @ Oct 19 2004, 01:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Aiming at 2:01 pace for 30 mins, ended up doing 1:53 pace" and "slowed in the latter half" (what was the first half - 1:45's ?! ). Brilliant.  </td></tr></table> Heheh, well I didn't slow that much. I went from 1:54 or so to 1:56/1:57, but even then I was still pulling short sequences of strokes at 1:54 at times. I also came home with a final 250m sprint at about 1:44 I think, and that's what pulled my time back down under 1:54 for the overall average. You're right about the hour and 10k times. The 6k one needs a seeing to as well. =) The 6k time (24:34) is my oldest PB, and it was set almost a month ago at an average pace of 2:02.8. On the basis of last night's 30 minutes, I should be aiming at a time of around 22:50. Similarly, the 10k time was set at 2:01.5, and I reckon I should be aiming at 38:40 or so. At least 15000 for the hour. If I can hit those targets, I'll be very happy because it would mean that those three results would be within the top 50% for my age group on the C2 online rankins, meaning that I'd have achieved my goal of getting all my ranked times into the top half of their respective ranges for my age group.

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