Wolverine Plan Discussion

[old] nharrigan · Post by **[old] nharrigan** » February 27th, 2006, 12:39 pm

I want to thank Mike for putting the Wolverine Plan on line. And thanks to the other forum members for their postings. The plan worked really well for me and it helped a lot to hear what others were doing. I had a good Crash-b. Not a PB, but close- 6:34 and change. There always next year. It was a lot tougher to perform in the arena than I thought it would be. I got caught up in the race, went out too fast and paid the price at the end. Live and learn. All in all it was a very well run event. I'm definitely doing it again next year. Ralph- I'm starting my cycling training. I'm going to use some of your workouts, that you posted a while back. I think the rowing is going to help my cycling a lot. Thanks for posting. Mark- The best cycling training is on the road. Good luck, Neil

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » February 27th, 2006, 12:50 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(nharrigan @ Feb 27 2006, 11:39 AM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Mark- The best cycling training is on the road. </td></tr></table> Neil: Agreed, but sometimes weather and life's priorities get in the way of that ... not to mention having roads that are safe to ride. The "next best thing", for me, would be a trainer that's just as sophisticated with a marketing program as successful as C2's program -- rankings, races, Internet message boards, forums, etc. That would be the best of an imperfect situation. I am amazed at how much better drivers elsewhere in the world are about making way for cyclists ... and keeping them safe. In te US, you often become a target ... rather than something or someone to take caution over. So, the safety factor in putting in lots of klicks is not insignificant either, sadly. Regards -- Mark

[old] johnmcclellan · Post by **[old] johnmcclellan** » February 27th, 2006, 2:21 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Feb 27 2006, 11:50 AM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(nharrigan @ Feb 27 2006, 11:39 AM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Mark- The best cycling training is on the road. </td></tr></table> The "next best thing", for me, would be a trainer that's just as sophisticated with a marketing program as successful as C2's program -- rankings, races, Internet message boards, forums, etc. That would be the best of an imperfect situation. </td></tr></table> Mark, I'm coached in cycling by CTS (www.trainright.com). They might have at least part of what you are looking for - the message board is very active, very supportive and none of the nonsense that I've seen from the non-valued added contributors (for lack of a better term) who like to drag down discussions on C2. Of course, CTS isn't free, but as with your indoor trainer for cycling, you get what you pay for... John Neil, If you are in Acton, I'm right around the corner - what type of cycling do you do? And next fall, I'll be looking for erg partners as well...

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » February 27th, 2006, 2:57 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(John McClellan @ Feb 27 2006, 01:21 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Feb 27 2006, 11:50 AM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(nharrigan @ Feb 27 2006, 11:39 AM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Mark- The best cycling training is on the road. </td></tr></table> The "next best thing", for me, would be a trainer that's just as sophisticated with a marketing program as successful as C2's program -- rankings, races, Internet message boards, forums, etc. That would be the best of an imperfect situation. </td></tr></table> Mark, I'm coached in cycling by CTS (www.trainright.com). They might have at least part of what you are looking for - the message board is very active, very supportive and none of the nonsense that I've seen from the non-valued added contributors (for lack of a better term) who like to drag down discussions on C2. Of course, CTS isn't free, but as with your indoor trainer for cycling, you get what you pay for... John Neil, If you are in Acton, I'm right around the corner - what type of cycling do you do? And next fall, I'll be looking for erg partners as well... </td></tr></table> John: Thanks ... for the cycling training information. I'll take a look. Also, I started rowing for the same reason you did, although my pip-squeak is a cox ... less than 95 pounds, 5' 3", and LOUD. Just like Dad ... short and loud.

Regards ... Mark

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » February 27th, 2006, 3:33 pm

I’d like to take a moment to congratulate all those who competed at the 2006 CRASH-Bs and to thank all the CRASH-B officials, Concept2 personnel, volunteers and spectators for making the event a truly enjoyable experience. And a big thank you to the many former strangers who took time to introduce themselves, talk about the Wolverine Plan, or wish me good luck for my race. The feedback about my comments on this thread was very helpful and motivational to me. I expect to continue making occasional WP remarks as time and ambition allow, and I hope I’ll be able to help some of you reach your training and racing goals. All the best, Mike Caviston

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » February 27th, 2006, 4:01 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Feb 27 2006, 02:33 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I’d like to take a moment to congratulate all those who competed at the 2006 CRASH-Bs and to thank all the CRASH-B officials, Concept2 personnel, volunteers and spectators for making the event a truly enjoyable experience. And a big thank you to the many former strangers who took time to introduce themselves, talk about the Wolverine Plan, or wish me good luck for my race. The feedback about my comments on this thread was very helpful and motivational to me. I expect to continue making occasional WP remarks as time and ambition allow, and I hope I’ll be able to help some of you reach your training and racing goals. All the best, Mike Caviston </td></tr></table> Mike: And there are many of us, some that went to CRASH-Bs, some that raced elsewhere this season, and some who never raced at all, who owe you lots of credit and thanks for helping us establish a training plan and execute it to get better. You're a real credit to the sport, and asset to us and many others. As always, thanks! It works! -- Mark

[old] Stretch · Post by **[old] Stretch** » February 27th, 2006, 5:18 pm

I caught Mike's race, and he definitely practices what he preaches. After rowing a neat negative-split 6:27, he jumped off the erg, slung his kit bag over his shoulder and jogged off up the arena steps like a man who'd just finished warming up. If the race had been 25m longer he'd have won it, as the other guy was in bits. Maybe just left the kick too late?

[old] johnmcclellan · Post by **[old] johnmcclellan** » February 27th, 2006, 10:18 pm

[/quote] Also, I started rowing for the same reason you did, although my pip-squeak is a cox ... less than 95 pounds, 5' 3", and LOUD. Just like Dad ... short and loud.

Regards ... Mark [/quote] We should get our daughters in a shell together - Jane is on the other end of the size spectrum, but also LOUD. She just ended her hockey season - first year goalie - she thinks one of her jobs is to cheer constantly for her teammates at 100+ decibels! Now if my younger daughters get into rowing as well... John

[old] FrancoisA · Post by **[old] FrancoisA** » February 27th, 2006, 10:57 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Feb 27 2006, 08:01 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Mike: And there are many of us, some that went to CRASH-Bs, some that raced elsewhere this season, and some who never raced at all, who owe you lots of credit and thanks for helping us establish a training plan and execute it to get better. You're a real credit to the sport, and asset to us and many others. As always, thanks! It works! -- Mark </td></tr></table> I second what Mark has written. Thanks Mike, and congratulations for your performance at CRASH-Bs! Regards, Francois

[old] adambalogh · Post by **[old] adambalogh** » February 28th, 2006, 12:34 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Feb 27 2006, 02:33 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I’d like to take a moment to congratulate all those who competed at the 2006 CRASH-Bs and to thank all the CRASH-B officials, Concept2 personnel, volunteers and spectators for making the event a truly enjoyable experience. And a big thank you to the many former strangers who took time to introduce themselves, talk about the Wolverine Plan, or wish me good luck for my race. The feedback about my comments on this thread was very helpful and motivational to me. I expect to continue making occasional WP remarks as time and ambition allow, and I hope I’ll be able to help some of you reach your training and racing goals. All the best, Mike Caviston </td></tr></table> Mike It was great to meet you at the CRASH-Bs after reading all your informative posts. thanks for taking time after the race to talk with me. It was a really great event and lots of fun. very motivating. Adam Balogh

[old] ragiarn · Post by **[old] ragiarn** » March 2nd, 2006, 2:31 pm

Using the Wolverine Plan as a guide for training in cycling: Since a number of readers of this WP share the common interest in cycling and rowing I thought you might be interested on how I have adapted the WP as outlined in these discussion to cycling on a wind trainer. As I mentioned in an earlier post I have only worked on level 4 and Level 3 so far. Conversion of WP to cycling Level 4- in the WP for rowing is basically a series of 2 minute intervals of alternating spm with the goal of continuous rowing 1 hr and over time increasing intensity and increasing spm. The objective is to slowly increase the amount of work done per session (baby steps) from week to week over the entire training session. I start my Level 4 session with a 10-12 minute warm up. Warm up: I set the resistance at elevation of 0%. I start in a low gear ratio of 42/24 and increase my cadence until I reach 90+rpm- When I reach 90 rpm I go to the next gear ratio for one minute and every minute I increase the gear ratio to the next cog until I a reach my desired warm up condition- all the time maintaining a 90 rpm. It takes me about 10 minutes to get warmed up enough to begin sweating. Level 4 workout_ set resistance level ( elevation) -at present I have set my elevation leve at .7%- My wind trainer has 5 settings 0% .7% 1.5% 2.3% and 3.1% set gearing - at present I am doing my workouts in a gear ratio of 42/13 I start my work out at a cadence of 90 rpm (190+/- watts) for 2 minutes, 80 rpm (165 watts +/-) for 2 min then 70 rpm (145 watts +/-) for 2 minutes then back to 90 rpm etc and continue for the sequences for the entire workout. I started at low levels and and presently at 30 minutes for this workout. I plan to increase by 2-4 minutes each workout until I reach 60 minutes. At the end of my workout I do a 5 minute cool down. Once I can do this workout for 60 minutes I will either increase the gear ratio or the elevation. Either way my watts will increase. Eventually I will also add in sequences with cadence as high as 100 and 110 and as low as 60 If the gear ratio and the elevation or resistance are kept constant then the higher the cadence the higher the wattage will be. In competitive cycling the average rpm is in the 85-95 rpm range. In sprints the rpms can reach as high as 120-130. On the hills the cadence may drop as low as 60 rpm. Level 3 I start with a 10-12 minute warm as above and and end with a 5 minute cool down as above. Level 3 workout at present I set my resistance and gear ratio at the same level as my Level 4 workout. I do the entire workout at a cadence between 80-90. At present I am doing a 30 minute workout at 85-90 rpm and and average watt of 170. When I can do this workout for 60 minutes continuously at this intensity I plan to either increase the resistance (elevation) or the gear ratio. In my workout diary I keep track of the following: gear ratio total training time (minus warm up and cool down) Avg watt, Max watt, Avg MPH, Distance, elevation in feet, elevation % Av HR, MaxHR, Time HR spent in training zone If you are interested in finding out the work equivalent of cycling to rowing you can covert watts to av/500m times in rowing by going to: <a href="http://www.machars.net/spi.php" target="_blank">http://www.machars.net/spi.php</a> I did a 30 min level 3 workout this am with an avg of 170 watt. This is equiv to 2:07.22- Avg/500m- or 7086.6m for 30 min. For the other levels of workouts you could set up 2 minute intervals roughly equiv to 500m, 3 min equiv 750,, 4 min int equiv to 1k, 6 min int equiv 1500 m, and 8 min int equiv to 2k I think that these variatons would ease the boredom of indoor training while pushing fitness to a higher level. More importantly it will be easy to judge improvements from week to week by having set standards for comparison. Heart rate monitoring is also a good tool if used properly. Over time you should be able to do the same intensity at a lower heart rate. Any other ideas of using theWP as a training tool for cycling? Ralph Giarnella MD Southington, CT

[old] johnmcclellan · Post by **[old] johnmcclellan** » March 2nd, 2006, 3:54 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ragiarn @ Mar 2 2006, 01:31 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Using the Wolverine Plan as a guide for training in cycling: Any other ideas of using theWP as a training tool for cycling? Ralph Giarnella MD Southington, CT </td></tr></table> Ralph, You are way ahead of me in thinking about this! I've got a couple of quick observations about rowing and cycling. I'm coached through Carmichael Training Systems, and the language is different, but at some fundamental level, training is training. L4 has been the toughest for me to grasp (small brain and new to rowing concepts), but WP Level 4 seems conceptually similar to "Endurance Miles"(EM) at CTS, which is the foundation of their training program. Because I wrestled with the L4 conceptually, I found myself doing more base work on the bike. For next season, I commit to mastering the L4 concept. Vs. CTS EM, WP L4 has the added structure of closely defined rpm and power bands, with higher "torque" required at the lower SPM. The higher torque, lower rpm equates to CTS "Muscle Tension" intervals, which is added into their program as you build your aerobic foundation. The L2 and L1 workouts don't really enter the program until later in the season, vs. WP where they are included the whole year. Interestingly, I just read a really good cycling book by Dr. Michael Ross (Boston based) who presents research that shows that higher intensity work, in the appropriate doses, is actually better at building foundation aerobic fitness than traditional base miles - so score one for WP! The Level 2 workouts are analogous to CTS Steady State - 8 min blocks around threshold intensity. My favorite workout. One threshold level workout from Ross' book that I found worked very well for me was 2-3 sets of 8*2 min on, 2 min easy, with the on block at your LT (~30 min pace). I found that I can do more total volume at the higher intensity (on erg or bike) with an easier recovery than 4*2k. But once I had become comfortable at that intensity, I really focused on the 4*2k, which I think really helped me at CRASH-Bs. I can already see that the 3 months of high intensity rowing that I did this winter has had a very positive impact on my cycling. Looking back through some old workouts using CyclingPeaks software (use a Powertap hub on my bike), I was at about 205 watts @130 bpm in the middle of last season, after a lot of miles. Now I'm at 230, with very little cycling this year. And I'm 7 pounds lighter (at least for now - not sure I like being a lightweight!) Those are my thoughts for now - interested in exploring this one some more!

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » March 2nd, 2006, 4:03 pm

Now THIS is getting interesting ... might have to move up the road bike procurement process ... That being said, the technology in bikes has changed so much ... either (or any) of you have someplace I can go to get a good read on what to look for and how to spec out something for myself? A checklist or configurator of sorts? Whether to buy a complete bike, or put together components? HELP! Oh yes, now all I ride is a Specialized Sort-of-Hybrid (very low end), so I'm clueless as to the range of what's reasonable for a return to road cycling and touring. Thanks!

[old] FrancoisA · Post by **[old] FrancoisA** » March 2nd, 2006, 5:47 pm

Thanks Ralph for your input. I have also used some ideas from the WP on the bike trainer. In particular the L4 workouts to build power. I use a <a href="http://www.kurtkinetic.com/trainers.php" target="_blank">Kurt Kinetics</a> fluid trainer (the road machine model). Its power curve is given by the formula P = (5.244820) * S + (0.019168) * S^3, where S is the speed in miles/hour. I am using gears 53/15, which can be thought of as my current reference pace. I associate 65 rpm (213 Watts) with 16 spm, 70 rpm (250 watts) with 18 spm, 75 rpm (291 Watts) with 20 spm, etc. My latest L4 workout was 40 minutes consisting of the sequences 180,184,180,184 ( transposed into the corresponding rpm, of course!). The one minute at 80 rpm (337 watts) was hard!

Regards, Francois

[old] FrancoisA · Post by **[old] FrancoisA** » March 2nd, 2006, 6:05 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Mar 2 2006, 08:03 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Oh yes, now all I ride is a Specialized Sort-of-Hybrid (very low end), so I'm clueless as to the range of what's reasonable for a return to road cycling and touring. Thanks! </td></tr></table> Mark, I have a the model "NEWSTEEL" made by <a href="http://www.gurubikes.com/english.html" target="_blank">Guru</a>, with Ultegra components. Those bikes are very well made and the paint job is exceptional. They will also make the frame to fit you exactly. The gold medalist Simon Whitfield was riding a Guru tri bike at the Olympics in Sydney in 2000. If money is of little concern to you, take a look at the Carbonio'Ti model with Dura Ace components. Francois