Line Of Force Application To The Fan

[[old] ehagberg]

(jumping in where I probably shouldn't, but can't resist)<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Apr 20 2005, 10:53 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Apr 20 2005, 10:53 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also consider the standard we are using here, which is rowing in a boat. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I think that's the standard you are using here.<br /><br />Aren't we talking about the C2 indoor rowing machine? I don't think I see the word boat in there. Does indoor rowing have to have any direct relation to the on-water kind? Maybe the C2 indoor rower is rigged like it is because they expected really rough waves and needed the extra clearance.

[[old] John Rupp]

The problem is that a high rigging on the C2, as on a boat, though it might work better for a tall rower with a tall torso and high center of gravity, doesn't work well for a medium sized rower and not well at all for someone of less than average height, women in particular.<br /><br />Also, in particular to the C2, the higher the rigging (axle in relation to a line from the railing, or the top of the seat), as compared to the height of the torso of the rower, the more likely that difference is going to cause injuries, or at the least ineffiencies with the stroke and capacity for power production.

[[old] BobD]

All of this is assumption and has no basis in fact, i.e. opinion without empirical evidence ... <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Apr 20 2005, 11:48 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Apr 20 2005, 11:48 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The problem is that a high rigging on the C2, as on a boat, though it might work better a tall rower with a tall torso, doesn't work well for a medium sized rower and not well at all for someone of less than average height, women in particular.<br /><br />Also, in particular to the C2, the higher the rigging (axle in relation to a line from the railing, or the top of the seat), as compared to the height of the torso of the rower, the more likely that difference is going to cause injuries, or at the least ineffiencies with the stroke and capacity for power production. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

Another thing about having a high axle (rigging) is that it rewards those who not only have tall torsos, but also who have high center of gravities!<br /><br />For example a tall torso'd rower with heavy shoulders and chest, and with light legs would have a higher center of gravity.<br /><br />However, in a boat it is more desirable to have a lower center of gravity!<br /><br />This is showing more and more reasons why using the C2 to determine seat placings in a boat is not wise.

[[old] Canoeist]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Apr 15 2005, 06:20 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Apr 15 2005, 06:20 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br /><br />Thus it is important everyone realize how important it is to have <b>unmodifications</b> to the erg, i.e. the capability of being able to adjust both the level of the railing, and the relationship of the rigging, i.e. the position of the axle in relation to the line of the railing.<br /><br /><b>Unmodifications</b> are important!<br /><br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John, if we had "unmodifications" to the rail, then "jacking" the erg would be legal again. Then we would need a box to check in the rankings for "jacked" versus "regular" times.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Paul Flack

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-Canoeist+Apr 21 2005, 05:12 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Canoeist @ Apr 21 2005, 05:12 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->John,  if we had "unmodifications" to the rail, then "jacking" the erg would be legal again.  Then we would need a box to check in the rankings for "jacked" versus "regular" times. </td></tr></table><br />Paul,<br /><br />Well that's the point, you see.<br /><br />C2 has modified the erg by jacking up one side, and also raising the height of the axle.<br /><br />Thus the C2 modified erg is already jacked!<br /><br />Only an UNmodified erg, is an unjacked erg.<br /><br />And only an UNmodified erg, is an UNmodified erg.<br />

[[old] andyArvid]

Doublespeak is alive and well on the forum.

[[old] John Rupp]

<b>Unmodifications</b> are important!

[[old] PaulH]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Apr 21 2005, 10:51 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Apr 21 2005, 10:51 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Unmodifications</b> are important! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Compared to which boat? And how rigged? Sweep or Scull?

[[old] andyArvid]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Unmodifications</b> are important!<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><i>Fried ice cream</i> is a <b>reality</b>! - George Clinton

[[old] Dickie]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Apr 16 2005, 07:00 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Apr 16 2005, 07:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Birds fly.<br /><br />I have no need to prove that they fly.<br /><br />Needing to prove or have "facts" for everything would be a severe restriction on learning, open mindedness, and capacity for understanding basic concepts and realities. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have ignored John Rupp's posts for a long time now, then in a fit of insanity I turned off the setting in my profile to read this thread, I don't know what I was thinking, maybe John has learned something in the past 6 months or so, maybe he at least learned to spell Mathematics and Physics, no, wait, Physics is to much to expect, it has that funny 'y' in it.<br /><br />Well, after reading the above quote, I can honestly say things have changed, he is much worse now and I see no hope for recovery.<br /><br />It is time to remove the feeding tube and let this patient go; it’s the only humane thing to do. I implore all humane people reading this thread, stop feeding the Rupp; you are only prolonging a most hideous demise.<br /><br />Rest in Peace John<br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Dickie+Apr 21 2005, 11:20 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Dickie @ Apr 21 2005, 11:20 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, after reading the above quote, I can honestly say things have changed, he is much worse now and I see no hope for recovery.<br /><br />Rest in Peace John <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Fred, Now yer cracking me up! <br /><br />Remember, "ignor-ance" is bliss.....

[[old] John Rupp]

"The centipede was happy, quite,<br /> Until a toad in fun<br /> Said, 'Pray, which leg goes after which?'<br /> This worked his mind to such a pitch,<br /> He lay distracted in a ditch,<br /> Considering how to run."<br /><br />"You can't make a centipede by gluing ants together." -- Greg Titus [1985]

[[old] bw1099]

I kind of wish this thread would just go away. It started out with an interesting premise, and degraded into ... well, we all know what it degraded into. Yet it is so fascinating.<br /><br />Anyway, I started reading it and gave up when it seemed to be stating that the the line of force you apply to row a boat is somehow even with the runners, which I interpret to mean that you have to scrape your fingernails against the runners during the stroke (and somehow punch your hands through the deck so they are even lower during the recovery). <br /><br />Then when I was trying to improve my stroke on the water, I started thinking about the position of my hands in relation to my center of mass, and compared that to the erg, and thought that this thread might be on to something. So I came back and read the whole thing. It did (although indirectly) help me to understand the problem with my stroke. (The problem is not with my center of mass, as much as it is with the amount of mass. My boat sits low enough in the water that maybe I should be be scraping my fingernails against the runners to have the blades in the correct position.) So maybe if I had a "Model J" I could perfect this awkward rowing posture at home off the water.<br /><br />bw

[[old] holm188]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Apr 20 2005, 03:24 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Apr 20 2005, 03:24 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Another thing about having a high axle (rigging) is that it rewards those who not only have tall torsos, but also who have high center of gravities!<br /><br />For example a tall torso'd rower with heavy shoulders and chest, and with light legs would have a higher center of gravity.<br /><br />However, in a boat it is more desirable to have a lower center of gravity!<br /><br />This is showing more and more reasons why using the C2 to determine seat placings in a boat is not wise. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />WOW, we have come a long way from selection of a crew based on technique, erg score, SPI (okay only for those who like it ).... it's easy now just get their center of gravity and that's it..... <br /><br />nice to see that communication with the moon (or is it Mars) is up.