Training Program For Long Beach Sprints And Crashb

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » January 29th, 2006, 10:48 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(H_2O @ Jan 29 2006, 02:31 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The Austrian IRC took place today and I raced in the 40-49 age group.<br />I took second in 6:20.7.<br />It was a good competition as the winner in my age group pulled 6:08.8 and third place was 6:25.<br />The winner is a truly outstanding athlete as he is at most 6 feet tall. It is a pity I could not watch him row.<br /><br />The company was also quite illustrious as one of the participants was a multiple world champion in the lightweight single scull. The lightweights had to compete with the heavyweights in all Masters divisions.<br /><br />I completely credit Xeno's plan for my time. Just before he published his plan I was in such dreadful shape that I seriously thought about not taking part in the competition, unsure wether I would be able to go under 6:30.<br /><br />I am now hooked on this approach to training and will stick with it.<br /><br />Thanks Xeno! <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Go H2O!! Much congratulations. May I ask what your previous PB was and in what time frame you got to 6:20? It's fascinating that the Xeno emphasis on long low lactate would have such an impact in less than two months. Conventional thinking (maybe just mine) was that the "base" was more of a long term (years) kind of endeavor. You've demonstrated quick results. I am feeling much better than I did a month ago myself, but not quite at your level. We'll see in a couple weeks.<br /><br />Do you actually measure lactate? I am close to taking the plunge for one of those little meters and daggers. I did a pretty thorough search and comparison and posted my thoughts on Xeno's blog, if anyone's interested.<br /><br />Congrats again,<br />Doug

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » January 29th, 2006, 11:30 pm

Great stuff H2O, big effort, be proud !!!!!<br /><br />George

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 29th, 2006, 11:40 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(H_2O @ Jan 29 2006, 05:31 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The Austrian IRC took place today and I raced in the 40-49 age group.<br />I took second in 6:20.7.<br />It was a good competition as the winner in my age group pulled 6:08.8 and third place was 6:25.<br />The winner is a truly outstanding athlete as he is at most 6 feet tall. It is a pity I could not watch him row.<br /><br />The company was also quite illustrious as one of the participants was a multiple world champion in the lightweight single scull. The lightweights had to compete with the heavyweights in all Masters divisions.<br /><br />I completely credit Xeno's plan for my time. Just before he published his plan I was in such dreadful shape that I seriously thought about not taking part in the competition, unsure wether I would be able to go under 6:30.<br /><br />I am now hooked on this approach to training and will stick with it.<br /><br />Thanks Xeno! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />H20 ... sweet row!<br />

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » January 30th, 2006, 12:14 am

Hi Doug and H20<br /><br />Good job H20 for your 620 that is great.<br /><br />My approach to training is very conventional.<br /><br />It is NEVER too late to aerobic kilometers rows. <br /><br />I credit my former coaches for their physiological understanding and gentle approach to conditioning.<br /><br />When you train full time the distances rowed are approximately 200-240 KMS per week in winter/spring, less towards 2k racing. Fall is an easier workload.<br /><br />Thank you again for giving me compliments they are very important to me, now that I am riding the coaching horse.<br /><br />All the very best,<br /><br />XENO

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » January 30th, 2006, 3:05 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Jan 29 2006, 09:48 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>May I ask what your previous PB was and in what time frame you got to 6:20? It's fascinating that the Xeno emphasis on long low lactate would have such an impact in less than two months. Conventional thinking (maybe just mine) was that the "base" was more of a long term (years) kind of endeavor. You've demonstrated quick results. I am feeling much better than I did a month ago myself, but not quite at your level. We'll see in a couple weeks.<br /><br />Do you actually measure lactate? I am close to taking the plunge for one of those little meters and daggers. I did a pretty thorough search and comparison and posted my thoughts on Xeno's blog, if anyone's interested.<br /><br />Congrats again,<br />Doug<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />My previous PB was 6:25 from 2001.<br />This year I was in good shape till the middle of June for 5K - 10K doing lots of TR workouts and some internet races. Then the TR workouts started wearing me down and I switched to long steady rows as a training for a marathon for about two months.<br />All these rows were too fast. <br />Maybe I built some sort of base during the marathon training anyway but it was not the right way as after the marathon (which went well) I was in dreadful shape<br />and unable to pull myself out of it.<br /><br />I cannot do lactate testing since I do not have the equipment.<br />However from Xeno's comments and suggestions about heart rates I can tell that all my steady state rowing was too fast (1:49 - 1:52). I also did not take any breaks and so my heart rate used to drift much too high.<br /><br />My estimate now is that it is good enough if I do 1:56 - 2:00 in stready state rowing.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » January 30th, 2006, 3:36 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(H_2O @ Jan 30 2006, 12:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Jan 29 2006, 09:48 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>May I ask what your previous PB was and in what time frame you got to 6:20? It's fascinating that the Xeno emphasis on long low lactate would have such an impact in less than two months. Conventional thinking (maybe just mine) was that the "base" was more of a long term (years) kind of endeavor. You've demonstrated quick results. I am feeling much better than I did a month ago myself, but not quite at your level. We'll see in a couple weeks.<br /><br />Do you actually measure lactate? I am close to taking the plunge for one of those little meters and daggers. I did a pretty thorough search and comparison and posted my thoughts on Xeno's blog, if anyone's interested.<br /><br />Congrats again,<br />Doug<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />My previous PB was 6:25 from 2001.<br />This year I was in good shape till the middle of June for 5K - 10K doing lots of TR workouts and some internet races. Then the TR workouts started wearing me down and I switched to long steady rows as a training for a marathon for about two months.<br />All these rows were too fast. <br />Maybe I built some sort of base during the marathon training anyway but it was not the right way as after the marathon (which went well) I was in dreadful shape<br />and unable to pull myself out of it.<br /><br />I cannot do lactate testing since I do not have the equipment.<br />However from Xeno's comments and suggestions about heart rates I can tell that all my steady state rowing was too fast (1:49 - 1:52). I also did not take any breaks and so my heart rate used to drift much too high.<br /><br />My estimate now is that it is good enough if I do 1:56 - 2:00 in stready state rowing. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Thanks. This all greatly helps me make sense of my situation. Two years ago my PB was 6:28.7. A year ago my PIRC score drifted up to 6:33. Last Fall I thought I was getting great base building in by rowing head races with the club. But in hindsight it was mostly repeated bouts of attempts to break 4k times at paces you mention, all well under 1:50. Recovery rows more the exception. Then head races were done and I thought it time to "throttle up" for 2k season. A weekly 4x1k and an additional mini-test per week between 1k and 1250m, all aiming at 1:35. And lots of less but still hard volume the other four days. Took about 3 weeks for the death spiral to really take hold.<br /><br />Many mistakes there. Tough lessons. But all the same flavor. I think/hope 6:28 still a reasonable goal. Like yourself, without the lactate equipment (yet), I've estimated my 2mmol pace to be somewhere from 1:58 to 2:00, HR near 150. My 20k pieces are really 4x5k with 2 or 3 minute rests.<br /><br />Many thanks again to you and Xeno. Now I'm especially itching to see what a whole year of corrected mistakes and lactate awareness will do. Next year I enter the 50+ bracket. Could be interesting.<br /><br />- Doug

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » January 30th, 2006, 4:13 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Jan 31 2006, 08:36 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Thanks. This all greatly helps me make sense of my situation. Two years ago my PB was 6:28.7. A year ago my PIRC score drifted up to 6:33. Last Fall I thought I was getting great base building in by rowing head races with the club. But in hindsight it was mostly repeated bouts of attempts to break 4k times at paces you mention, all well under 1:50. Recovery rows more the exception. Then head races were done and I thought it time to "throttle up" for 2k season. A weekly 4x1k and an additional mini-test per week between 1k and 1250m, all aiming at 1:35. And lots of less but still hard volume the other four days. Took about 3 weeks for the death spiral to really take hold.<br /><br />Many mistakes there. Tough lessons. But all the same flavor. I think/hope 6:28 still a reasonable goal. Like yourself, without the lactate equipment (yet), I've estimated my 2mmol pace to be somewhere from 1:58 to 2:00, HR near 150. My 20k pieces are really 4x5k with 2 or 3 minute rests.<br /><br />Many thanks again to you and Xeno. Now I'm especially itching to see what a whole year of corrected mistakes and lactate awareness will do. Next year I enter the 50+ bracket. Could be interesting.<br /><br />- Doug<br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Tks to you as well Doug, it seems that hitting 50 is not going to be such a bad thing after all. 2004 my first year I went sub 6:30 (just) then last year lost the plot and never really got close. I am 49 in May and my goal is to get back down there again and maybe push 6:25 with a long term goal for when I turn 50 of a sub 6:20 (why not )<br /><br />My first race this year is 16 weeks away and having been following this thread the basis of my rowing is going to be LSD with HR below 75%HRR, with nothing approaching AT till 8 weeks to go and then race pace in the last 3 - 4 weeks. So a gradual building of intensity and rates but never completely stopping the LSD work.<br /><br />I think this sort of approach would suit most but I also think that as I have gotten older the body would just not stand the grind of high intensity work for that duration or that I could maintain a peak that long.<br /><br />George<br />

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » January 30th, 2006, 6:25 pm

Doug/H2O<br /><br />How does your "steady state" (75% HRR/2 mmol) pace compare to your half-marathon pace, or 60-minute pace? I'm curious to see how the paces you use compare to some common benchmark.<br /><br />Thanx.<br /><br />Tom

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » January 30th, 2006, 10:36 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ Jan 30 2006, 03:25 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Doug/H2O<br /><br />How does your "steady state" (75% HRR/2 mmol) pace compare to your half-marathon pace, or 60-minute pace? I'm curious to see how the paces you use compare to some common benchmark.<br /><br />Thanx.<br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Just a wild guess, since I haven't done a HM or hour test in ages, but based upon my FM last year at 1:57.3, my steady state is somewhere from 1 to 3 split seconds slower. So it might be HM + 7 or so, 10k + 13, etc.

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » January 31st, 2006, 3:56 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ Jan 31 2006, 11:25 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Doug/H2O<br /><br />How does your "steady state" (75% HRR/2 mmol) pace compare to your half-marathon pace, or 60-minute pace? I'm curious to see how the paces you use compare to some common benchmark.<br /><br />Thanx.<br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Tom this was the session I did after work today, from my diary:<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Intensity: LO/LO<br />HR Range: 122 - 140 (60%-75%)<br />Duration: 60 min<br />Stroke Rate: 20spm<br /><br />Actual: 60 min / 1:59.6 / 15074m / HRAvg 134(70%) / TinZ 58:13<br /><br />Comments: nice smooth row, kept it steady around the eventual average, 15sec water stop to re-hydrate after 30min but HR stayed in zone. Nice session<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I would describe this as conversational pace and felt that I could have kept going indefinitely tho the butt and the knees might have objected. I dont know what I could do for 60min at the moment but did just over 8k for 30min @ 20 the other day but no idea on HR<br /><br />George

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » January 31st, 2006, 12:56 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ Jan 30 2006, 05:25 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Doug/H2O<br /><br />How does your "steady state" (75% HRR/2 mmol) pace compare to your half-marathon pace, or 60-minute pace? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'll be doing steady state at about HM+6, 60mins+7 where HM anfd 60mins are the currently estimated times for a hard effort (not the PBs).<br />

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » January 31st, 2006, 6:43 pm

Doug/H2O/George--<br /><br />thanx.<br /><br />I used to do my long rows in the range you are describing, but got away from it for lower rate work. I'm not sure it was a good decision, although lots of folks seem to like the r18 stuff.<br /><br />Tom

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » January 31st, 2006, 8:24 pm

I feel pretty good rating between 19-21.

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » January 31st, 2006, 10:10 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Xeno @ Feb 1 2006, 01:24 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I feel pretty good rating between 19-21. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That would be me to, I find 18 just a little slow.<br /><br />George<br />

[old] JaapR · Post by **[old] JaapR** » February 1st, 2006, 5:40 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(H_2O @ Jan 29 2006, 04:31 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The Austrian IRC took place today and I raced in the 40-49 age group.<br />I took second in 6:20.7.<br />It was a good competition as the winner in my age group pulled 6:08.8 and third place was 6:25.<br />The winner is a truly outstanding athlete as he is at most 6 feet tall. It is a pity I could not watch him row.<br /><br />The company was also quite illustrious as one of the participants was a multiple world champion in the lightweight single scull. The lightweights had to compete with the heavyweights in all Masters divisions.<br /><br />I completely credit Xeno's plan for my time. Just before he published his plan I was in such dreadful shape that I seriously thought about not taking part in the competition, unsure wether I would be able to go under 6:30.<br /><br />I am now hooked on this approach to training and will stick with it.<br /><br />Thanks Xeno! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Michael,<br />Congratulations with the PB. So, after all the discussion about negative splitting, flat race and fly/die, which has it become? Did you take the first 18 strokes at -3 (1:32) as in Xeno's strategy, or did you race a flat 1:35?<br />Are there any other indoor rowing events you are training for, or will we see you online with RowPro soon? <br /><br />I just read through all the pages in this thread, and realize that I may have done too much interval at high intensity this season. Or maybe just not enough steady state. Most of the 65k/week (5 sessions) were done in online races and AT/TR/AN intervals. Maybe once a week a UT1 (e.g. 3x15 at 1:47), but almost never UT2. Problem is that since I don't like doing the UT2, get bored. But reading through this thread it really seems I just have to if I want to get faster. <br /><br />Thanks for all the input Xeno, Michael and others!<br /><br />Jaap<br /><br /><br />