Rod Freed

[[old] H_2O]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 11 2005, 01:28 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 11 2005, 01:28 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->my argument is soley based on the relationship between times </td></tr></table><br /><br />......<br />His rowing must be a technical disaster: a weak stroke due to poor leverage, or whatever. No top end speed.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You can't extrapolate from 6K down to 2K for rowers that don't put their main emphasis on the 2K.<br /><br />A while ago I was able to split 1:42.5 for 6K but nearly blew up on a 6:35 2K.<br />Somewhat later I got down to 1:40.7 for a 5K and past 17K for the hour but am pretty sure that I could not have gone faster than 6:28 (if that) for 2K.<br /><br />This despite the fact that I am 6'4" weighing 230 lbs.<br />2K takes a lot of specialized training.<br /><br />We also should not conclude from inconsistent times that these are necessarily a fraud. On occasion someone might post a time for a distance when not in best shape. Like Andreas van Tonder posted a 1:28 500m but has delivered a 6:07 2K in a public race. So I don't think 1:28 is his best effort for 500.<br /><br />Still some of the posted times seem to be to good to be true.<br />We need to lure these guys out to a public race. Maybe we should start a fund to be donated to the delivery of such times. I'll start a separate thread to this effect.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] joanvb]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think that Freed's distance rows are at all impossible for a 50s lwt. In fact, I assume someone will best them--pretty soon. What is bizarre is how slow he is in the 2K, given his distance times. That is, just as you say, what is bizarre is the the _relationship_ between his times: distance times vs. 500m/1K/2K times.<br /><br />ranger<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-Mike Caviston+Dec 11 2005, 05:57 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Dec 11 2005, 05:57 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...But it seems if the people who care enough about public recognition to rank such fantastic times could really perform so well, they’d go to a public race and really get some respect. <br /><br />Mike Caviston <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />These observations make sense to me. From what I know, I just find the times hard to believe (particularly the 5K and 6K) without public evidence of a fast 2K. Ranking one's times implies a desire for public recognition. Are there many on the "all time best" lists who haven't demonstrated comparable performances at a race or two (machine or on the water)? <br />Joan

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-H_2O+Dec 11 2005, 04:13 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(H_2O @ Dec 11 2005, 04:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You can't extrapolate from 6K down to 2K for rowers that don't put their main emphasis on the 2K.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Agreed.<br /><br />With all his distance times, Freed has never entered a 2k time in the rankings.<br /><br />He is obviously not interested in the 2k, and more power to him for that.<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

Ralph Earle posted this thread in May, 2005, of the rowers who have most lead the rankings in their divisions through the end of the 2005 season.<br /><br /><a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2018' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... 018</a><br /><br />The most #1 rankings have been as follows:<br /><br />26 Kent Timm<br />24 Mary Perrot<br />23 Anna Bailey<br />21 Roger Burrell<br />19 Rod Freed<br />19 Dwayne Adams<br />18 Duncan Patterson<br />17 Marianne Gramm<br />17 Nik Fleming<br />16 Malcolm Fawcett<br />16 Birgit Juel-Hansen<br />14 Luanne Mills<br />13 Ann Irish<br />12 Janet Kennedy<br />12 Denis Melody<br />11 Hilary Weeks<br />10 Graham Benton<br />10 Donald Alden<br />10 Jostein Vadla <br /><br />The most #1's have been by Kent Timm, with Rod Freed in 5th position, though he has certainly been the most dominant rower as to times.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With all his distance times, Freed has never entered a 2k time in the rankings.<br />He is obviously not interested in the 2k, and more power to him for that. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Given his background (in OTW rowing) and comments, I suspect that Freed is _very_ interested in the 2K. On the other hand, he also seems well aware of his problems ("no top end speed," etc.) with the shorter distance, including the 2K. I would suspect that _that_ is why he doesn't train for the 2K, rank his 2Ks, or go to public races. Relative to his other achievements, he is just not very good at 2Ks.<br /><br />BTW, he hasn't ranked _anything_ for a couple of years. Has he given up rowing?<br /><br />ranger

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 12 2005, 12:41 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 12 2005, 12:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />BTW, he hasn't ranked _anything_ for a couple of years. Has he given up rowing?<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Have you?

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 12 2005, 12:41 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 12 2005, 12:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Given his background (in OTW rowing) and comments, I suspect that Freed is _very_ interested in the 2K. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />According to Joan, he usually did 4k loops on the water, which is very similar to his training on the erg.<br /><br />If he was so interested in the 2k, he would have entered times for it.<br /><br />Freed has the fastest times for the 50+ lightweights for the following events:<br /><br />5k<br />6k<br />30 minutes<br />10k<br />60 minutes<br />half marathon<br /><br />Obviously, Freed is interested in the distance events, and not in the 2k.<br />

[[old] TomR/the elder]

Early in this thread, Big Paul listed Prof Freed's email. Why doesn't someone jot him a note and ask him who witnessed his times? Or send a note to C2, which lists his records, to ask them what verification they used?<br /><br />I'm inclined to do just that, but it would end the speculation and spoil everyone's fun. <br /><br />Tom

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-TomR/the elder+Dec 12 2005, 07:39 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ Dec 12 2005, 07:39 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Early in this thread, Big Paul listed Prof Freed's email. Why doesn't someone jot him a note and ask him who witnessed his times? Or send a note to C2, which lists his records, to ask them what verification they used?<br /><br />I'm inclined to do just that, but it would end the speculation and spoil everyone's fun. <br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Tom--<br /><br />I did this. I wrote to Freed and asked about these things. He didn't reply.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 12 2005, 03:54 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 12 2005, 03:54 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 12 2005, 12:41 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 12 2005, 12:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />BTW, he hasn't ranked _anything_ for a couple of years. Has he given up rowing?<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Have you? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />No, but I have certainly been chatting about how things are going. Freed hasn't. I have also raced at many public venues in the past. Freed hasn't.<br /><br />I'll be racing at public venues this winter, too, maybe as many as six or seven times. Races are automatically verified and ranked.<br /><br />My case is not very parallel to Freed's. I have just been training up a new stroke.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

Rich,<br /><br />How many public 5k to half marathon races have you done?<br /><br />Freed leads the all time lists in 6 events.<br /><br />Thus it appears that his stroke is already developed.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thus it appears that his stroke is already developed.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, it does appear to be developed, as far as it goes.<br /><br />Freed has been rowing a lot longer than I have. I am still a novice. I have only been out in my 1x for a couple of seasons now, and I have never raced on the water.<br /><br />I have just learned proper technique.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How many public 5k to half marathon races have you done? </td></tr></table><br /><br />If you are fully prepared for a 2K, racing all of the other distances, both sprints and distance rows, follows as a matter of course, usually during the sharpening period, when you are concerned with lightening up your stroke and trading rate for pace.<br /><br />IMHO, racing the other distances as a training plan for trying to row your best 2K is not at all smart or effective, though. <br /><br />Thus, the asymmetry.<br /><br />The best way to improve your 2K is to increase your stroking power and your endurance with that increased stroking power. This is best done by rowing at low rates and high stroking power over long distances. Lightening up your stroke and trading rate for pace, which is advantageious in racing, works directly _against_ this goal.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] gw1]

[QUOTE]IMHO, racing the other distances as a training plan for trying to row your best 2K is not at all smart or effective, though. [QUOTE]<br /><br />This was my thought yesterday re your 2/+ hrs of 300-305 watt stepping! <br /><br />GW

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-gw1+Dec 13 2005, 09:18 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Dec 13 2005, 09:18 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IMHO, racing the other distances as a training plan for trying to row your best 2K is not at all smart or effective, though. </td></tr></table><br /><br />This was my thought yesterday re your 2/+ hrs of 300-305 watt stepping! <br /><br />GW <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />My stepping is not racing; it isn't even rowing. Yesterday, my finishing heart rate at the end of 100 minutes of stepping at 295 watts was 137 bpm. This is just UT2 work.<br /><br />I assume that as the winter goes along, I will be racing many, if not all, of the distances, just as a natural product of a return to focussing on pace rather than power.<br /><br />At the moment, in my rowing, I am just making the transition back from trudging at 14 SPI to some lighter, more normal stroking. When I get the normal stroking going smoothly again, I can start to race various distances.<br /><br />The work done trudging at 14 SPI is not reflected in pace over set distances, at least it isn't for me. I just like to do this work as hard as I can with whatever energy I can muster from day to day. In this work, I don't care about what happens with pace.<br /><br />To get respectable racing times, over whatever distances, you need to use a maximally light, quick stroke, given your normal application of power in the drive. Or, at least, this is how _I_ go about racing.<br /><br />ranger<br />