Is Height A Factor ?

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-Lippy+Jan 23 2005, 06:34 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Lippy @ Jan 23 2005, 06:34 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I then, at 5 foot 6 inches cannot feasibly spin the flywheel as fast as someone 6 foot 2 inches per stroke, given the same power available to me. It seems to me that it is the overcoming of the inertia that is the biggest benefit to the long folk, they can overcome the inertia by a greater amount each pull. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Lippy,<br /><br />Sure, that is exactly correct.<br /><br />In the same manner, a 6'5 tall runner can take a longer "stride" than a runner who is 5'3.<br /><br />If runners were restricted to taking 160 strides per minute etc, then tall/er runners would typically "win" all of the races, the same as if rates are restricted with rowing.<br /><br />Note, however, that you can take "more strokes per minute" and more easily than can a rower who is 6'9. So YOU have the advantage as to stroke rates. And by taking more strokes, you overcome that inertia as well as a rower who can take a longer stroke but who cannot match your stroke rate.<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

By the way, the world record holder for the 5k and 10k on the track, and who is considered by many to be the best distance runner of all time, Kenenisa Bekele, is 5'3.<br /><br />The previous record holder, Haile Gebrselassie, is also 5'3.

[[old] PaulH]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 23 2005, 05:47 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 23 2005, 05:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->By the way, the world record holder for the 5k and 10k on the track, and who is considered by many to be the best distance runner of all time, Kenenisa Bekele, is 5'3.<br /><br />The previous record holder, Haile Gebrselassie, is also 5'3. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That's fascinating. What are their 2k erg times? Or could it be that their efforts, while almost defying comprehension by a wheezing slacker such as myself, don't have anything to do with erging?<br /><br />Cheers, Paul

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 23 2005, 02:43 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 23 2005, 02:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->a 6'5 tall runner can take a longer "stride" than a runner who is 5'3.<br /><br />If runners were restricted to taking 160 strides per minute etc, then tall/er runners would typically "win" all of the races, the same as if rates are restricted with rowing.<br /><br />Note, however, that you can take "more strokes per minute" and more easily than can a rower who is 6'9.  So YOU have the advantage as to stroke rates.  And by taking more strokes, you overcome that inertia as well as a rower who can take a longer stroke but who cannot match your stroke rate.<br /> </td></tr></table><br />Kenenisa Bekele<br /><br />5k/track: 12:37 -- 4:03 mile pace<br /><br />10/track: 26:20 -- 4:14 mile pace<br />

[[old] Lippy]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 23 2005, 05:43 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 23 2005, 05:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Lippy+Jan 23 2005, 06:34 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Lippy @ Jan 23 2005, 06:34 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I then, at 5 foot 6 inches cannot feasibly spin the flywheel as fast as someone 6 foot 2 inches per stroke, given the same power available to me. It seems to me that it is the overcoming of the inertia that is the biggest benefit to the long folk, they can overcome the inertia by a greater amount each pull. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Lippy,<br /><br />Sure, that is exactly correct.<br /><br />In the same manner, a 6'5 tall runner can take a longer "stride" than a runner who is 5'3.<br /><br />If runners were restricted to taking 160 strides per minute etc, then tall/er runners would typically "win" all of the races, the same as if rates are restricted with rowing.<br /><br />Note, however, that you can take "more strokes per minute" and more easily than can a rower who is 6'9. So YOU have the advantage as to stroke rates. And by taking more strokes, you overcome that inertia as well as a rower who can take a longer stroke but who cannot match your stroke rate. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I may have AN advantage regarding stroke rate, but I have to agree (I assume) with Paul that the bigger advantage would be to the long chaps. This does seem to be born out by the fact that the tall people do seem to excel at competitions, although I'm sure that there is a limit where height may be a benefit.

[[old] John Rupp]

Libby,<br /><br />Of course -- because most less tall rowers take the "advice" of the taller ones to restrict the rating.<br /><br />Which, by the way, is an absolutely FANTASTIC competitive tactic.<br /><br />There is no way that a short/er rower will be able to keep up with a tall/er one when the rating is restricted, conditioning and all other things being equal.<br /><br /><b>The ones who do NOT restrict their ratings just happen to be the best rowers in the world</b>, Elia Luini, Eskild Ebbesen, Wolfgang Siegl, Leonardo Pettinari, etc.<br /><br />Note 3 of these are from very small countries, and all of them from much smaller countries than the U.S. and Australia, yet all of them are likewise much faster.

[[old] PaulH]

Two points:<br /><br />1. Most less tall rowers take this advice? I know perhaps 50-60 'less tall' rowers directly, and none of them takes this advice. Where did you pull this fact from?<br /><br />2. Your 'best' rowers, who all seem to be the best lightweights, but we'll let that slide for now:<br /><br />Elia Luini - 6'1"<br />Eskild Ebbesen - 6'1"<br />Wolfgang Siegl - unknown<br />Leonardo Pettinari - 5'11.25" (positively dwarven!)<br /><br />Of course you missed the very best rowers (or rather, ergers)<br />Matthias Siejkowski - 6'10"<br />Rob Waddell - 6'6.75"<br />Pavel Shurmei - 6'7"<br /><br />So light or heavy all of these rowers are significantly taller than the average man, despite being lighter than average in the case of the lightweights. So how, then, is height not a factor?<br /><br />Cheers, Paul

[[old] Dickie]

Paul<br /><br />You're beating a dead horse here. John Rupp reminds me of one of my best friends. He might get it in his head that the sky is green with purple polka dots and no argument would change his mind. you could take him outside and point out that the sky is blue and it would make no difference. He just refuses to back down from a position he has taken. While I have never met John, he seems to be one of those feel good people who can not fathom how height (in this case) might make someones time inferior to anothers.<br /><br />Fred Dickie<br /><br />PS. I found something I really like with the new forum format. I have 'ignored' one poster from my viewing results. i thought I would never do this, but this one person is just not worth my time.

[[old] Canoeist]

As I get older, I am getting shorter. (This is because the arches in my feet flatten, the cartilidge in my spine wears out, and I develop a bit of a hunchback from rowing too much.) As I get older, my erg times are getting slower. I conclude that there is a direct correlation between shortness and slow times.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Paul Flack<br /><br />

[[old] Mark Keating]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulH+Jan 25 2005, 02:28 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulH @ Jan 25 2005, 02:28 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />So light or heavy all of these rowers are significantly taller than the average man, despite being lighter than average in the case of the lightweights.  So how, then, is height not a factor?<br /><br />Cheers, Paul <br /> </td></tr></table><br />You know, I've been giving this height thing a lot of thought lately and I'm starting to think John's right. I'm very close to taking him off my ignore list in fact.<br /><br />Because if height is indeed a factor in erging, why are the most successful jockeys in the world so short? <br /><br />And those midget wrestlers, they're all very good at what they do and look how short they are! When was the last time you saw a tall world champion midget wrestler anyways?

[[old] Canoeist]

<!--QuoteBegin-Dickie+Jan 25 2005, 03:55 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Dickie @ Jan 25 2005, 03:55 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I found something I really like with the new forum format.  I have 'ignored' one poster from my viewing results. [right] <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks for pointing out this new option Fred. (MyControls/Options/IgnoreUser) I will give it a go.<br /><br />Paul Flack

[[old] Canoeist]

[right] <br />[/quote]<br />You know, I've been giving this height thing a lot of thought lately and I'm starting to think John's right. I'm very close to taking him off my ignore list in fact. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Have you ever been to a pub where there is a dwarf tossing contest and the winner had thrown a sumo wrestler by mistake instead of a dwarf?<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Paul Flack

[[old] PaulH]

Oh why didn't I think of the jockeys! I'm sorry John, you're right and I'm wrong.<br /><br />But wait. Basketball players are almost all tall, and they're very good at what they do as well. So which do Ii choose?<br /><br />John, please help me to resolve my confusion!

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Of course -- because most less tall rowers take the "advice" of the taller ones to restrict the rating. </td></tr></table><br /><!--QuoteBegin-PaulH+Jan 25 2005, 06:28 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulH @ Jan 25 2005, 06:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. Most less tall rowers take this advice?  I know perhaps 50-60 'less tall' rowers directly, and none of them takes this advice.<br /> </td></tr></table><br />So all the less tall rowers you know go at 38-40 + spm for a 2k?<br /><br />Great!!!! Now we're getting somewhere.<br /><br />By the way, Elia Luini is 6' tall, not 6'1.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulH+Jan 25 2005, 09:49 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulH @ Jan 25 2005, 09:49 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm sorry John, you're right and I'm wrong.<br /> </td></tr></table><br />All is forgiven, Paul.