Dwayne

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 6th, 2005, 7:06 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ranger launched himself into the indoor rowing scene, in what might be interpretted as a fairly brash way, but so what, he's shown quite a capacity to take as good as he gives, and some off the cuff psychobabble about the inner workings of a competitors mind, who has showed up and "proved it" already, is out of line.  </td></tr></table> Well said, Paul. That's all I meant by my comment that Roland's musings about my psychological state are "sophomoric." I expect such comments from many people who haven't been around competitive sports very much, or if they have been around them, haven't accomplished much. But I don't expect such comments from Roland. He is a very experienced and accomplished rower (and athlete more generally), one that I respect enormously. I have also explained several times why I didn't row, so I don't see any point in claiming something that I haven't said and then asking me what I think about it! What am I supposed to say? Yes, you are right about what I think and I am wrong? Yikes. At BIRC, I didn't feel physically ready to race. I _tried_ to get ready, but it just didn't come together. At that time, I hadn't done various things that I need to do to get my new stroke ready to race. I lost 30 lbs. I broke the 50s lwt world record on three straight races. I still hold every major championship record in my age and weight division and I am now turning 54. I still have something to prove? If so, what? As I have explained (and here it goes again), I am not trying to get better, not just win races. At least for me at the moment, t is harder to get better than to win races. And if Graham Watt is around, it seems clear that unless I get better I won't even win races. Thus the work on my technique. ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 6th, 2005, 7:10 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I am [not] trying to get better </td></tr></table> Nice typo! Must be some deep psychological significance in this typo, too. Eh, Thomas? ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 6th, 2005, 7:53 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Roland, I have gone back a couple of times to re-read your post and it just occurred to me there is a hint of, be it intentional or unintentional, "Ranger, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."  </td></tr></table> Yep, I am really foolish, Thomas. From Feb. 2002 to Dec. 2003, I rowed 6:33, 6:30, 6:32, 6:29, 6:28, and 6:32 on successive rows in competition. All of these rows were the best in my division by some margin and in and around (or under) the WR in my division at the time (6:31.6). All of these rows demanded some travel to get to the venues; three of these rows demanded significant travel; two required cross-Atlantic flights. This is pretty consistent, gutsy rowing, no? Stage fright? Who is being "fooled", Thomas? What you say is happening, is just not happening, despite your expectations, worries, suppositions, and other "fan-like" musings. Just get on an erg and row. If you are doing, you don't have to be watching and speculating. I am happy to be entertaining, if my rowing happens to be so. But I am not an entertainer. I am not a paid professional athlete. As a result, I am not (primarily) rowing for you (and Mariliyn, and...). I am just rowing to enjoy myself and see how good I might be able to get, both on the erg and in the water. I assume you are doing the same. ranger

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » January 6th, 2005, 9:23 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (german answer @ Jan 6 2005, 04:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Hi Dwayne, Now some information: There are two guys in Germany which are going sub 6 as well (over 40). So I think it is not so unbelievable to do these times. On the other hand: They have no good results in water rowing. We say in Germany: You can row circles around them (especially over 2 k´s). Where is the problem? You can row your races on the erg with a very high lactate acid level, no wrong movements, no uncontroled catch, no brutal finish can give you a bad result. You need only one thing: Watt. Normaly you see a great difference in Erg rowing between good racers on the water and non rowers (or leisure rowers). The experienced water rower, tries to keep out all negative aspects of boat movement, and normally he keeps his technique on the erg. The training of the guys is more aerobic training, because with a too high lactate acid level, it is nearly impossibel to keep a proper technique and this is absolut necessary in the race on water. So what is the result: With a specific erg training, that combines a lot of power work, more anaerobic aspects (in comparison to water work), you can reach extreme good results on the erg. Whether you can use this training as a water exercise form, I have my doubts (and not only me). This is the great advantage for a non water rower on the erg and why the C2 rower is an excellent cross training machine for all sports. Jürgen Schwab  </td></tr></table> Juergen, Hallo, Gross Gott, und alles. Good to hear there are other over fourty ergers out there going sub 6. See folks...I'm not the only one. I totally agree with you concerning the conversion from erg to water. There needs to be some technical merit involved, but for the most part, you can do things on the erg that would never translate to the boat. I personally have never seen (or heard of) someone who has a faster water time than they do erg time. To many additional variables involved with the boat. All the best. Tschuss. Dwayne

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » January 6th, 2005, 9:28 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jan 6 2005, 06:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> As a result, I am not (primarily) rowing for you (and Mariliyn, and...). I am just rowing to enjoy myself and see how good I might be able to get, both on the erg and in the water. I assume you are doing the same. ranger  </td></tr></table> Here...here!! Well said. Shut up and row people!!! Dwayne

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » January 6th, 2005, 11:08 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (dadams @ Jan 6 2005, 05:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jan 6 2005, 06:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> As a result, I am not (primarily) rowing for you (and Mariliyn, and...). I am just rowing to enjoy myself and see how good I might be able to get, both on the erg and in the water. I assume you are doing the same. ranger  </td></tr></table> Here...here!! Well said. Shut up and row people!!! Dwayne  </td></tr></table> I can't help but notice the irony of Dwayne saying this following a quote of Ranger.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » January 6th, 2005, 12:16 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Coach Gus @ Jan 6 2005, 07:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I can't help but notice the irony of Dwayne saying this following a quote of Ranger.  </td></tr></table> Really? What irony is that? I don't see it at all.

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » January 8th, 2005, 5:06 am

Hello, The "fool" part has to do with your explanation of why you did not row the 2k at the BIRC and not your 2k time for your age and weight group. The guy who rows all out, to eek out, in absolute agony a X:XX.X for 2k is just as gutsy if not more than the guy who rows all out, to eek out, in absolute agony a 5:37.0 for 2k. They (X:XX.X) are truly the unsung heroes of indoor rowing races. If you respect Roland so much, why did you take his advice in a negative way? There is nothing wrong with the way it is typed. I only took my current prospective based on your response which included the word "sophmoric" followed by several_lines_of_pure_crap. The erg is forgiving for poor technique because it is not complicated and there are not to many variables. If your new stroke wasn't ready, why not be the athlete and use what has worked for you in the past? There is a psychological significance to the typo in light of that you typed so much before you typed that sentence. The truth will set you free.

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » January 8th, 2005, 1:17 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (PaulS @ Jan 6 2005, 08:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Coach Gus @ Jan 6 2005, 07:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I can't help but notice the irony of Dwayne saying this following a quote of Ranger.  </td></tr></table> Really? What irony is that? I don't see it at all.  </td></tr></table> First, was thinking how difficult it seems it would be for Ranger to "shut up." Second was picturing Dwayne at BIRC saying the same thing to Ranger...."shut up and row..."

[old] Kudos · Post by **[old] Kudos** » January 8th, 2005, 2:58 pm

honestly, what is wrong with you people on this thread? Would you like it if ranger and dwayne came into your house and asked to see you row a 2k? If you are not a world champion you have no idea what it is like ot be one or the mental or psychological pressures of being one. You have no idea how fragile their place is or how lucky they are to pull those scores when they pull them. If they aer off, they are off and will be wasting time. Those who compete against them would have no satisfaction in beating them if they don't pull a PB so what the point of them racing? It is unfourtunate that ranger could not particapate and leave it at that. They have an ability of which you can not comprehend. Your X:XX score has no bearing on theirs. You have no idea what it took to get there just as he/she has no idea how much or little effort you have put into yours. He/she is letting no one down but themselves. You did not pay to see him row, he gave you no promise to row, and you are not on his team or in his boat. You all need to get over yourselves and realize that you are no where in his league so you have foundation to judge him or his dedication or courage. ranger and dwayne are the ones who suffer all the risks and consequences of not rowing or rowing so they get to make all the decisions and those are final. They are not under any contract so do anything for anyone. If I was ranger or dwayne, I would tell all of you to do some very nasty things to yourself and when you beat my score you can come back and talk to me. I am very surprised at their kindness to some fools who give them nothing but grief for thier actions. How about a little support for champions who need it from time to time?

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » January 8th, 2005, 3:20 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Kudos @ Jan 8 2005, 10:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> How about a little support for champions who need it from time to time?  </td></tr></table> Guess they/we are too busy doing "some very nasty things to" ourselves.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 8th, 2005, 3:35 pm

Kudos, Very well said.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 8th, 2005, 4:47 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The "fool" part has to do with your explanation of why you did not row the 2k at the BIRC and not your 2k time for your age and weight group. </td></tr></table> Obviously. That is why I responded as I did. Only a fool could miss the connection between the two. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The guy who rows all out, to eek out, in absolute agony a X:XX.X for 2k is just as gutsy if not more than the guy who rows all out, to eek out, in absolute agony a 5:37.0 for 2k. They (X:XX.X) are truly the unsung heroes of indoor rowing races. </td></tr></table> Yes, just as gutsy, perhaps. But in a somewhat different situation. That you do not recognize these differences is astonishing. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The erg is forgiving for poor technique because it is not complicated and there are not too many variables. </td></tr></table> You say this as though it were some sort of truism. It isn't. It is just your opinion. I don't believe this at all. That is why I am working on my technique. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>If your new stroke wasn't ready, why not be the athlete and use what has worked for you in the past? </td></tr></table> Because I had been doing all of my training with my new stroke. My old stroke "worked in the past" because I trained with it. Again, your assumptions are astonishing. Do you assume that those who row well do it without unusual labor, commitment, care, etc.? Yes, I have a lot of potential as a rower, but by and large, like everyone/anyone else, when I row, I only row well because I am well prepared. ranger

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » January 9th, 2005, 3:46 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Do you assume that those who row well do it without unusual labor, commitment, care, etc.?  </td></tr></table> I assume a person's effort may not be reflected in their time.

[old] Roland Baltutis · Post by **[old] Roland Baltutis** » January 9th, 2005, 6:48 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jan 8 2005, 03:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> but by and large, like everyone/anyone else, when I row, I only row well because I am well prepared. ranger </td></tr></table> Ranger, My original post to you on this thread, before all this jumbled mess, was a serious sports psychology question to you, with a bit of Aussie humour attached (Although the cultures of all the English speaking nations are similar, each nation has it's own distinct form of humour that others may fail to comprehend). There was no malice intended. Although many of us believe you should have rowed BIRC. I can understand why you didn't. High achievers like Dwayne and yourself have very high standards and do not want to perform in a public arena, unless you are sure you can reproduce the same race winning/ record breaking form that you are famed for. Both of you have quite a fan base of which would have certain high expectations from you if you both raced. And neither of you would want to disappoint them. Dwayne says he won't race at Boston because his focus is now on water. That's fair enough. Ranger if you were an unkown first timer at BIRC you could have jumped on that machine and rowed. However because you are the very accomplished Rich Cureton and things weren't right, for whatever reason , you could not. That's fair enough also. However, let's get back to the sports psychology of all this, which is what I'm interested in and the theme of my original post. Because you didn't race at Boston and BIRC, regardless of the reasons, I honestly believe you need a major race such as Toronto, to have under your belt before Crash Bs 2005. Mental preparation is an important part of any sport and too many people fail to recognise that. Just look at the Australian womens' eight with the Sally Robbins debacle in Athens. They said they didn't need a sports psychologist before going to Athens. Famous last words for them. What worries me Ranger, and I'm trying to be helpful here, is that you said that psychology has no bearing on your racing as long as you have form. If you have form you can just jump on the machine and race. I think that there is more to it than that. Without it you are denying yourself vital preparation for the big event. Keep it smooth, keep it relaxed Roland Baltutis

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