Team Row Pain, Row Gain

[old] Meri Goehring · Post by **[old] Meri Goehring** » September 19th, 2005, 10:44 pm

Thanks. What a great group. I received lots of encouragement and helpful tips! I wasn't planning on rowing at all today as my schedule was packed, but after reading all the responses, felt I could easily get in a 2000 meter row. Thanks for explaining things so well! Meri <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(copywriter @ Sep 18 2005, 05:54 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Meri Goehring @ Sep 18 2005, 04:19 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>By the way, what does it mean when you say RowProw and WISE are ahead? </td></tr></table> Meri, a bunch of us are in a team called Row Pain, Row Gain. There are many other teams, including RowPro and WISE (Welsh Irish Scots and English). Those nice folx at Concept have provided a facility for rowers to log their metres and times online. Sounds like you know about this. By joining a team, your metres are added to the team's, so that teams can 'compete' against each other. What's more, you can see* how all your other team members are doing, so you're motivated to try and catch up, or try and stay ahead. You join a team by nominating one on your personal details. On your log page, click 'profile'. On your profile page click 'edit profile'. As you scroll down the resulting screen, you'll find the opportunity to enter a 'University/Club Standings Affiliation'. There is a scrolling option under that in which you'll find "Row Pain, Row Gain". Please do join us - we need 10k-a-day members. Best, Ken *When you look at 'University/Club Standings' on your log page, click on the team ranking number and a new page will open showing you team members and their cumulative kilometrage for the season. </td></tr></table>

[old] deppe4 · Post by **[old] deppe4** » September 20th, 2005, 8:34 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Normsthename @ Sep 6 2005, 11:19 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Congrats Norm!! I just logged my first in 100,000 meters (in 4 weeks) too. Now we have to try to catch the 400k club

The goal for this month is 6,000 meters every row (6 days a week). I'm trying for a million meters before my first year of rowing ends, which will be next August. Keep up the great work Norm! -deppe4 </td></tr></table> Good work on your first 100,000! You must be the one and same deppe on the list I keep overtaking, and then find the next day you have took the lead again! Its good motivation trying to keep ahead, heres to the next 100,000 I am sure I will easily clock another 100,000 this month, I spent the first two weeks rowing for just 10-15 minutes maximum, it was all I could do at the time! I am also sure you will clock a million in the first year, on my current distances, it should take 10 months...... Andy </td></tr></table> Hi Andy, I just wanted you to know that having someone to try to stay ahead of has helped keep me going. I felt guilty last week - I only rowed twice because I caught my daughter's tummy bug. But I kept checking out the standings to see how you were doing. So last night was a very slow take it easy row. Hopefully by the end of the week I'll be back to where I was two weeks ago. Anyways - thank you for the motivation. -deppe4

[old] Steelhead · Post by **[old] Steelhead** » September 20th, 2005, 2:52 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(cnapier @ Sep 19 2005, 06:46 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Howdy Mike, Good deal on the WW. When I was younger (from 23 on, before that I was a really fat child/teen) I could maintain my weight with the amount of working out I did regardless of the amount of food I consumed. Once I passed about 35 it became harder to maintain and really a losing battle taking me above 210 because well...I like to eat and viewed the working out as a free license to do so. Then - lay-off...bang 254. I had never been good at restricting my intake (chosing to do something rather than not do something) but on two occasions I did follow a program and one of those was the WW points which I found rather easy to stick to until another issue came up with side effects to the medication for an old injury (broken back). On June 27th I gave in and accepted that if I want to be at my proper weight I was going to have to reduce my intake below my output, weighing and recording everything I consume so as to not to allow extra points to sneak in. We are lucky in that it appears we enjoy the active life and working out as part of it. So many that can master the food reduction fail due to their not working out on a regular basis. Now on your flying past me in the standings...that distant splash you hear... Charles 254/204/158 </td></tr></table> I hear you. I think the age caught up with me vis-a-vis my old approach to getting back in shape: 90 days of exercise and reduced eating and I was in top shape. I just don't have the discipline I had as a youngster vis-a-vis what I eat. I eat healthy but I eat too much. WW should help when I weigh in each week -- I actually signed up this time instead of just using my wife's information. The only thing I am doing differently this time is using the erg exclusively (except for my hiking trips). If the erg doesn't give me the results I need, then I'll slow down on the meters, increase my walking, and weight training. It is an interesting experiment for me to just use the erg. Now that I finally learned the proper method of rowing -- using the legs -- I can row longer distances, feel my legs, and don't have the same upper body workout that I used to get (when I mostly used my upper body (this is where weight training really helps) instead of my legs), but I'm pleased with the results so far. I suspect that I am gaining a lot of muscle mass in my legs which is reducing the amount of pounds I am losing, but I am more interested in the inches coming off; which is slowing happening now. Alright, I hear more splashing behind me so I had better get back on the erg. Thanks for the motivation. I'm going for 2,000,000 meters this fiscal year ASAP. Mike

[old] Normsthename · Post by **[old] Normsthename** » September 21st, 2005, 7:33 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Hi Andy, I just wanted you to know that having someone to try to stay ahead of has helped keep me going. I felt guilty last week - I only rowed twice because I caught my daughter's tummy bug. But I kept checking out the standings to see how you were doing. So last night was a very slow take it easy row. Hopefully by the end of the week I'll be back to where I was two weeks ago. Anyways - thank you for the motivation. -deppe4 </td></tr></table> Deppe4 It was good of you to let me get within spitting distance of you again! I must admit to not doing as much as I wanted to do lately, what with 'other' things happening. I want to try and up my daily distance, now I have a TV & DVD player in the garage along with the Concept, that should help! Andy

[old] Sleepy_Floyd · Post by **[old] Sleepy_Floyd** » September 21st, 2005, 5:55 pm

Interesting (well maybe) Geographic Demographic about Team Row Pain, Row Gain: I was just looking at our membership list one day and was wondering where everyone was from.. So I took a few minutes and figured this out.. On 21 Sept 2005, Team Row Pain, Row Gain consists of 71 members from 10 Countries: USA (57) Canada (3) GBR (4) France (1) Australia (1) Russia (1) Denmark (1) Germany (1) New Zealand (1) Netherlands (1) ZAF (1) Of the 57 living in the USA: Virginia (6) California (6) Texas (4) New York (4) Illinois (4) Arkansas (3) Colorado (2) Connecticut (2) Indiana (2) New Jersey (2) Ohio (2) Oklahoma (2) Oregon (2) Pennsylvania (2) Washington State (1) Wisconsin (1) Nevada (1) Rhode Island (1) Tennesee (1) Nebraska (1) North Carolina (1) Michigan (1) Maine (1) Florida (1) Alabama (1) Iowa (1) Unknown (1) Of the 6 that live in VA, 3 live in the same county and 2 others live in the same city. My US Locations are off by 1 person.. not sure which one I missed. I"m not sure what good all that information is, if any.. but I just thought it was interesting.. SF

[old] RockinRobin · Post by **[old] RockinRobin** » September 21st, 2005, 10:37 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Sleepy_Floyd @ Sep 21 2005, 04:55 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Interesting (well maybe) Geographic Demographic about Team Row Pain, Row Gain: Arizona (3) SF </td></tr></table> Ya'll, I believe that's Arkansas (3)

[old] Sleepy_Floyd · Post by **[old] Sleepy_Floyd** » September 22nd, 2005, 1:50 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(RockinRobin @ Sep 21 2005, 10:37 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Sleepy_Floyd @ Sep 21 2005, 04:55 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Interesting (well maybe) Geographic Demographic about Team Row Pain, Row Gain: Arizona (3) SF </td></tr></table> Ya'll, I believe that's Arkansas (3) </td></tr></table> oops.. my bad.. i fixed it. thanks picking that up for me..

[old] RockinRobin · Post by **[old] RockinRobin** » September 22nd, 2005, 8:00 am

No problem. Interesting stats between US vs. Other countries. Of course this is a US site but: When I traveled to Russia a couple years ago, I thought it was very revealing that I only saw 1 overweight person (age=70+). Their life style was much more active. People walking everywhere, to stores, to the metro instead of using personal cars. Their cities were meant for easy access using mass transit. Also in trying the local cuisine, the diet used much less sugar than North Americans use. Even their cakes were much less sweet or rich. And due to economics they ate out on rare occasions. That made an impression on me, someone who used to drive 2 blocks to work, and drank 1-2 Mnt Dews a day. When I came back from that trip, I started walking, cut out all soda, and was able to loose 20 lbs fairly easily with very little adjustment to diet. A year later when I fell back into old habits those lbs came back. This is one of the reasons I think the C2 forum, team interactions, rowing partners, are very important...it helps motivate us to be more active when the will power to do it on our own wanes. Keep up the good work everybody!

[old] cnapier · Post by **[old] cnapier** » September 22nd, 2005, 11:48 am

Howdy Mike, Just looked at the standings and you are racking up the meters, you'll make that end of fiscal year goal I'm sure. (isn't a fiscal year arbitrary? ) Taking me a little bit to ramp back up to where I was pre-illness but I'll get there so no slacking off on your part. Are you adding your activity points to your daliy intake? I count each 100 cal burned as 1 point. Charles [And you made me look up how a bucktail relates to fish...]

[old] Steelhead · Post by **[old] Steelhead** » September 22nd, 2005, 2:50 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(RockinRobin @ Sep 22 2005, 05:00 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> No problem. Interesting stats between US vs. Other countries. Of course this is a US site but: When I traveled to Russia a couple years ago, I thought it was very revealing that I only saw 1 overweight person (age=70+). Their life style was much more active. People walking everywhere, to stores, to the metro instead of using personal cars. Their cities were meant for easy access using mass transit. Also in trying the local cuisine, the diet used much less sugar than North Americans use. Even their cakes were much less sweet or rich. And due to economics they ate out on rare occasions. That made an impression on me, someone who used to drive 2 blocks to work, and drank 1-2 Mnt Dews a day. When I came back from that trip, I started walking, cut out all soda, and was able to loose 20 lbs fairly easily with very little adjustment to diet. A year later when I fell back into old habits those lbs came back. This is one of the reasons I think the C2 forum, team interactions, rowing partners, are very important...it helps motivate us to be more active when the will power to do it on our own wanes. Keep up the good work everybody! </td></tr></table> I second this observation. I lived in Japan for 2 1/2 years (19 to 22 years old), and when I arrived I could not eat the cakes, cookies, and ice cream because they were not sweet; when I returned to the US after eating a Japanese diet for those 2 1/2 years, I could not eat cake, cookies, or ice cream in the US because they were too sweet. In order to drink a soft drink, I had to dilute it with 50% water. Even after all these years, I still find US cakes, cookies, ice cream, and soft drinks too sweet. I stopped drinking soft drinks several years ago. The last thing I need is a heavy dose of high fructose corn syrup. Yuck. Mike

[old] Steelhead · Post by **[old] Steelhead** » September 22nd, 2005, 3:11 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(cnapier @ Sep 22 2005, 08:48 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Howdy Mike, Just looked at the standings and you are racking up the meters, you'll make that end of fiscal year goal I'm sure. (isn't a fiscal year arbitrary? ) Taking me a little bit to ramp back up to where I was pre-illness but I'll get there so no slacking off on your part. Are you adding your activity points to your daliy intake? I count each 100 cal burned as 1 point. Charles [And you made me look up how a bucktail relates to fish...] </td></tr></table> Hi Charles, I'm doing some long rows to reach 2,000,000 this fiscal year (May 1st to April 30th) to see if I drop any inches around the waist and some poundage. This will correspond to the WW flex program that I just started. In a typical day, I burn about 1900 to 2500 calories showing on the erg on a 35,000 to 50,000 meter day (50,000 being only twice and probably never again (broken down into a 12,000 meter morning row on my Model B, and a 38,000 meter evening row on the Y's Model C)). Even with this number of calories being expended I am not losing any weight yet, but I'll keep up this expenditure of calories as long as I can physically keep doing it (it is hard to row three hours plus each day, and it's taking a toll on my body) until I reach the 2,000,000 mark. If I haven't lost 10 pounds, then I'm going to switch from long rows to the Concept weight loss program of using sprints; if I have lost 10 pounds then I'll reduce my erging to 1 hour a day and add 1 hour of weight lifting and 1 hour of walking each day. So either way, if I can survive the next few weeks 'til I reach the 2,000,000 meter mark, I will be cutting back on the long rows. Which means that if you haven't caught me before I reach that mark, you should shortly thereafter. In December of 2003 to January of 2004, I climbed Gokkyo Ri, crossed the Cho La, and trekked up to the Base Camp on Mt. Everest in Nepal, and I was completely out of shape. I thought I was going to die, but by sheer will power and stamina I finished this 21 day trek. I lost 20 pounds, but it was mostly upper body muscle. My goal is to go to Tibet and climb the North Side of Mt. Everest to the Advanced Base Camp (about 22,000 feet above sea level) but I am not going to do it unless I lose 50 pounds first. Hence, my motivation. The long rows are for stamina and weight loss, but I've only lost about 6 pounds since May 1st, although on one occasion it looked like I had lost about 13 pounds but I bounced back up so it must have just been dehydration, so I haven't had the success you've had. I haven't even lost an inch around the waist either. I have though increased my stamina. I do have to admit though that after my Model B had to be repaired and I started using the Model C at the Y, that I notice that the minimum drag factor on my B is about 180 and I row on the Model C at the Y at around 115 to 125, so I suspect that by using the Y's Model C I am getting less of a work out -- but it is so easy to row on the C than my Model B. I suppose I could increase the drag on the Model C to equal my B, but I doubt that I could row as far. Although today I'm going to increase the drag on the C and see how far I can go up to my stated objective. Anyway, I have to keep reminding myself that my goal is increase in stamina, strength, and a decrease in inches and weight rather than being in the number 1 position on our team. Being by nature aggressive, I do like racing to the top, as a motivator, but I have to keep my priorities straight: getting in the best physical condition possible for my age. "What is the use of running when we are not on the right way?" (Was hilft laufen, wenn man nicht auf den rechten Weg ist?) German proverb Mike

[old] Meri Goehring · Post by **[old] Meri Goehring** » September 22nd, 2005, 9:10 pm

Wow! When I felt tired today, I decided to ignore the iron maiden altogether. Next time I think I feel tired, I'll think of you for inspiration! Meri <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Steelhead @ Sep 22 2005, 02:11 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(cnapier @ Sep 22 2005, 08:48 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Howdy Mike, Just looked at the standings and you are racking up the meters, you'll make that end of fiscal year goal I'm sure. (isn't a fiscal year arbitrary? ) Taking me a little bit to ramp back up to where I was pre-illness but I'll get there so no slacking off on your part. Are you adding your activity points to your daliy intake? I count each 100 cal burned as 1 point. Charles [And you made me look up how a bucktail relates to fish...] </td></tr></table> Hi Charles, I'm doing some long rows to reach 2,000,000 this fiscal year (May 1st to April 30th) to see if I drop any inches around the waist and some poundage. This will correspond to the WW flex program that I just started. In a typical day, I burn about 1900 to 2500 calories showing on the erg on a 35,000 to 50,000 meter day (50,000 being only twice and probably never again (broken down into a 12,000 meter morning row on my Model B, and a 38,000 meter evening row on the Y's Model C)). Even with this number of calories being expended I am not losing any weight yet, but I'll keep up this expenditure of calories as long as I can physically keep doing it (it is hard to row three hours plus each day, and it's taking a toll on my body) until I reach the 2,000,000 mark. If I haven't lost 10 pounds, then I'm going to switch from long rows to the Concept weight loss program of using sprints; if I have lost 10 pounds then I'll reduce my erging to 1 hour a day and add 1 hour of weight lifting and 1 hour of walking each day. So either way, if I can survive the next few weeks 'til I reach the 2,000,000 meter mark, I will be cutting back on the long rows. Which means that if you haven't caught me before I reach that mark, you should shortly thereafter. In December of 2003 to January of 2004, I climbed Gokkyo Ri, crossed the Cho La, and trekked up to the Base Camp on Mt. Everest in Nepal, and I was completely out of shape. I thought I was going to die, but by sheer will power and stamina I finished this 21 day trek. I lost 20 pounds, but it was mostly upper body muscle. My goal is to go to Tibet and climb the North Side of Mt. Everest to the Advanced Base Camp (about 22,000 feet above sea level) but I am not going to do it unless I lose 50 pounds first. Hence, my motivation. The long rows are for stamina and weight loss, but I've only lost about 6 pounds since May 1st, although on one occasion it looked like I had lost about 13 pounds but I bounced back up so it must have just been dehydration, so I haven't had the success you've had. I haven't even lost an inch around the waist either. I have though increased my stamina. I do have to admit though that after my Model B had to be repaired and I started using the Model C at the Y, that I notice that the minimum drag factor on my B is about 180 and I row on the Model C at the Y at around 115 to 125, so I suspect that by using the Y's Model C I am getting less of a work out -- but it is so easy to row on the C than my Model B. I suppose I could increase the drag on the Model C to equal my B, but I doubt that I could row as far. Although today I'm going to increase the drag on the C and see how far I can go up to my stated objective. Anyway, I have to keep reminding myself that my goal is increase in stamina, strength, and a decrease in inches and weight rather than being in the number 1 position on our team. Being by nature aggressive, I do like racing to the top, as a motivator, but I have to keep my priorities straight: getting in the best physical condition possible for my age. "What is the use of running when we are not on the right way?" (Was hilft laufen, wenn man nicht auf den rechten Weg ist?) German proverb Mike </td></tr></table>

[old] jimjayhawk · Post by **[old] jimjayhawk** » September 23rd, 2005, 7:43 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Steelhead @ Sep 22 2005, 02:11 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(cnapier @ Sep 22 2005, 08:48 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Howdy Mike, Just looked at the standings and you are racking up the meters, you'll make that end of fiscal year goal I'm sure. (isn't a fiscal year arbitrary? ) Taking me a little bit to ramp back up to where I was pre-illness but I'll get there so no slacking off on your part. Are you adding your activity points to your daliy intake? I count each 100 cal burned as 1 point. Charles [And you made me look up how a bucktail relates to fish...] </td></tr></table> Hi Charles, I'm doing some long rows to reach 2,000,000 this fiscal year (May 1st to April 30th) to see if I drop any inches around the waist and some poundage. This will correspond to the WW flex program that I just started. In a typical day, I burn about 1900 to 2500 calories showing on the erg on a 35,000 to 50,000 meter day (50,000 being only twice and probably never again (broken down into a 12,000 meter morning row on my Model B, and a 38,000 meter evening row on the Y's Model C)). Even with this number of calories being expended I am not losing any weight yet, but I'll keep up this expenditure of calories as long as I can physically keep doing it (it is hard to row three hours plus each day, and it's taking a toll on my body) until I reach the 2,000,000 mark. If I haven't lost 10 pounds, then I'm going to switch from long rows to the Concept weight loss program of using sprints; if I have lost 10 pounds then I'll reduce my erging to 1 hour a day and add 1 hour of weight lifting and 1 hour of walking each day. So either way, if I can survive the next few weeks 'til I reach the 2,000,000 meter mark, I will be cutting back on the long rows. Which means that if you haven't caught me before I reach that mark, you should shortly thereafter. In December of 2003 to January of 2004, I climbed Gokkyo Ri, crossed the Cho La, and trekked up to the Base Camp on Mt. Everest in Nepal, and I was completely out of shape. I thought I was going to die, but by sheer will power and stamina I finished this 21 day trek. I lost 20 pounds, but it was mostly upper body muscle. My goal is to go to Tibet and climb the North Side of Mt. Everest to the Advanced Base Camp (about 22,000 feet above sea level) but I am not going to do it unless I lose 50 pounds first. Hence, my motivation. The long rows are for stamina and weight loss, but I've only lost about 6 pounds since May 1st, although on one occasion it looked like I had lost about 13 pounds but I bounced back up so it must have just been dehydration, so I haven't had the success you've had. I haven't even lost an inch around the waist either. I have though increased my stamina. I do have to admit though that after my Model B had to be repaired and I started using the Model C at the Y, that I notice that the minimum drag factor on my B is about 180 and I row on the Model C at the Y at around 115 to 125, so I suspect that by using the Y's Model C I am getting less of a work out -- but it is so easy to row on the C than my Model B. I suppose I could increase the drag on the Model C to equal my B, but I doubt that I could row as far. Although today I'm going to increase the drag on the C and see how far I can go up to my stated objective. Anyway, I have to keep reminding myself that my goal is increase in stamina, strength, and a decrease in inches and weight rather than being in the number 1 position on our team. Being by nature aggressive, I do like racing to the top, as a motivator, but I have to keep my priorities straight: getting in the best physical condition possible for my age. "What is the use of running when we are not on the right way?" (Was hilft laufen, wenn man nicht auf den rechten Weg ist?) German proverb Mike </td></tr></table> Mike, Not that I would wish discomfort and pain upon anyone, but it was very reassuring to see you write "it's taking a toll on my body".... I've been pushing to do 250k this month and my body is not at all happy with me... as a result I've had many slower workouts and my knees and back are both making it well known that I'd better not try and do this pace again anytime soon. Jim S.

[old] Steelhead · Post by **[old] Steelhead** » September 23rd, 2005, 11:12 am

Mike, Not that I would wish discomfort and pain upon anyone, but it was very reassuring to see you write "it's taking a toll on my body".... I've been pushing to do 250k this month and my body is not at all happy with me... as a result I've had many slower workouts and my knees and back are both making it well known that I'd better not try and do this pace again anytime soon. Jim S. Jim, I hear you. Congratulations on your 250K goal for this month though! Excellent. Mike

[old] Steelhead · Post by **[old] Steelhead** » September 24th, 2005, 12:32 pm

Hi Everyone: Even when we think we're too tired or busy to row, we might want to just row four 30-second bursts of all-out effort with four-minute rests in between each sprint. Six sessions of sprint interval training increased students' endurance capacity by 100%. And tests showed that their muscles were burning oxygen much more efficiently. According to this study, six minutes of intense exercise a week can keep people as fit as three hour-long jogs. This "sprint interval training" [of just four 30-second bursts of all-out effort with 4 minute rests in between] adds up to [the equivalent of] three 20-minute sessions a week, says Martin J. Gibala, PhD, associate professor of kinesiology at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario. <a href='http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/ ... ekey=47463' target='_blank'>http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/ ... 463</a> So, let's see at least six minutes of rowing each week from those who aren't rowing. Or more. Mike

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