Dwyane Adams - Fake Or Real?

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » January 20th, 2006, 8:14 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 20 2006, 12:17 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />I am a real person. This can be verified by Paul Smith. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It can? I've never met you John, though a long time ago we did exchange some cordial email, then for some reason you became a rabid and contrary yappie yorkie with an axe to grind against me. To this day I have no idea why it is so, but have no problem with playing the games you like to play. They are kind of fun, though I really would like it if you stuck to the truth a bit more closely.<br /><br />All I know for sure is that there is someone who calls themself John Rupp, but verifying them as a "real person" would be impossible at this point. you certainly don't act like any real person that I am certain exists.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 20th, 2006, 9:04 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ancho @ Jan 20 2006, 03:40 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>BTW, I do NOT think Chad williams is John Rupp, although he has not proven it.<br />I feel John has some fine sense of humour and technical/statistical skills </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thank you, Ancho! <br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 20th, 2006, 9:06 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(michaelb @ Jan 20 2006, 03:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>JR ... is sometimes funny in an upside down sort of way. </td></tr></table><br /><br /> <br />

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » January 20th, 2006, 10:49 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 20 2006, 02:37 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 20 2006, 09:29 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Chad,<br />I must admit, you have some gonads. You bash the system and me for days. You not only insult me, but many others in the rowing community, and then try and come back with an apology in a PM to me. Go away little man....go away!! I'm done with any other responses to you.<br /><br />Dwayne <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ok that’s cool with me Dwayne, I started this and I tried to put a finish to it, I offered you an Olive branch and you refused.<br /><br />I shall not lose any sleep over it <br /> </td></tr></table><br />When one publicly offends, one ought to publicly apologize. I'm sure your apology would have met a different reception if offered properly.

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » January 20th, 2006, 11:08 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 20 2006, 03:23 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I am going to start taking bets on the outcome of Dwayne’s 2000m over this weekend.<br /><br />Will he slip in the shower before hand?<br />Will he hurt his back at 600m in?<br />Will he have Flu?<br />Will he have tummy ache?<br />Will the Erg break?<br />Will the batteries on the pm3 fail with 150m to go?<br />Will the verification code on the pm3 not work?<br />Will it be to cold?<br />Will it be to hot?<br />Will he forget his kit?<br />Will we hear “I thought it was your job to bring the camera”<br /><br />Anyone got anymore?<br /><br />If he had proved all his other rows then I would not be typing this right now!!!! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Will you have the common decency to publicly apologize to Dwayne and congratulate him Monday when he's posted his PM3 verified time, or will you come out with a whole new list of ways he could be cheating and insist it must have been 500m intervals and actually rowed by 4 different people and he paid people to lie and take photos of the results?<br /><br />If you were any sort of a sportsman or gentleman, now that you have goaded him into doing this, you would step back, shut up, and await the result with some sort of respect.<br /><br /><br />

[old] cbrock · Post by **[old] cbrock** » January 21st, 2006, 12:05 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 21 2006, 05:06 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 20 2006, 06:03 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Dwayne, you have just gone up 1000% in my estimations. <br /><br />I will now saying nothing else about the past. This is a MASSIVE step forward. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Except, as has been stated here -- and Dwayne has been reading this thread -- he could do 20x 100 and then count the total time for a 2k.<br /><br />So I will be satisfied when he races a competition in public, in the same time vicinity that he has in the rankings. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John,<br />My response is in respect to the verification process not Dwayne.<br /><br />The Log Card cannot be manipulated (I think!)<br /><br />As the Log Card always differentiates between an interval workout and a set distance row a person could always present the log card as proof of a time.<br /><br />Of course that does not substantiate that the time was rowed by that person however it is certainly better than none at all.<br /><br />In the distances 2k and shorter even if other people were involved in a changeover to "improve" the time, the loss of seconds in doing so would almost certainly negate any advantage.<br /><br />Also it is unlikely in the extreme that a group of athletes at world class level would want to combine simply to provide a false substantiaition of a fast time. <br /><br />I have always had an interest in the substantiation process and I believe the question should have been. "How can the process be improved for those people who wish to substantiate their own times", rather than the other way around, where we are asking for people who have no interest in such an exercise to justify any times they may have presented.<br /><br />The "Log Card" is the training and racing history of each athlete.<br /><br />Reference to Workouts performed over an extended period of time as displayed in their personal logcard would surely provide the answer to that persons bona-fides.<br /><br />I would doubt that anybody would bother to be involved in a daily deception over month's of training and racing simply to enhance another persons standing.<br /><br />Best Wishes,<br />Chris<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 21st, 2006, 12:48 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(cbrock @ Jan 20 2006, 08:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I would doubt that anybody would bother to be involved in a daily deception over month's of training and racing simply to enhance another persons standing.<br /><br />Best Wishes,<br />Chris </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Chris,<br /><br />I agree with all of these things you have stated.<br />

[old] Andreas · Post by **[old] Andreas** » January 21st, 2006, 1:19 am

A whole lot of movement since my last reply.I'm not going to wast time on giving my oppinion about all I have read.<br />At this stage I would just renew my offer of joining Dwayne on Rowpro for this long awaited piece.The evaluation copy can be downloaded free of charge and the verification code wont be lost either.I must just clarify that I wont be racing since I'm not any match for Dwayne's times but I would very much like to witness this spectical on Rowpro.Unfortunatly only 8 rower will be able to join.<br />Dwayne if you're willing to do this, please PM me so that I can shedule the race at your convenience(even if it means early morning for me!!!!)<br /><br />Regading on water races:I'm no match since I have never been in a boat before<br />I'm a canoeist(I thought we went through this last year)<br />

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 21st, 2006, 4:43 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(seat5 @ Jan 20 2006, 10:08 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Will you have the common decency to publicly apologize to Dwayne and congratulate him Monday when he's posted his PM3 verified time, or will you come out with a whole new list of ways he could be cheating and insist it must have been 500m intervals and actually rowed by 4 different people and he paid people to lie and take photos of the results?<br /><br />If you were any sort of a sportsman or gentleman, now that you have goaded him into doing this, you would step back, shut up, and await the result with some sort of respect. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Seat5<br /><br />When Dwayne does his 2000m this weekend and passes all the information onto C2, when C2 have posted on here confirming that everything is how it should be and there are no anomalies with the row in any way, then yes, I will make a publicly apology on this forum for saying anything that may have made Dwayne look like a liar and a cheat.<br /><br />Dwayne will no doubt not accept it though, but I always tidy any mess up I have made.<br /><br />On the other hand, if C2 confirm they are not happy with it in some way, then it should be all you lot that where against me making an apology to me.<br /><br />Let’s wait and see what happens.<br /><br />

[old] raymond botha · Post by **[old] raymond botha** » January 21st, 2006, 6:40 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Andreas @ Jan 21 2006, 12:19 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>A whole lot of movement since my last reply.I'm not going to wast time on giving my oppinion about all I have read.<br />At this stage I would just renew my offer of joining Dwayne on Rowpro for this long awaited piece.The evaluation copy can be downloaded free of charge and the verification code wont be lost either.I must just clarify that I wont be racing since I'm not any match for Dwayne's times but I would very much like to witness this spectical on Rowpro.Unfortunatly only 8 rower will be able to join.<br />Dwayne if you're willing to do this, please PM me so that I can shedule the race at your convenience(even if it means early morning for me!!!!)<br /><br />Regading on water races:I'm no match since I have never been in a boat before<br />I'm a canoeist(I thought we went through this last year) <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Andreas,<br /><br />Don't short change yourself, you'd be more than a pace boat , he may enjoy the company.<br /><br />Ray<br />

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 21st, 2006, 9:38 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 21 2006, 04:43 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(seat5 @ Jan 20 2006, 10:08 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Will you have the common decency to publicly apologize to Dwayne and congratulate him Monday when he's posted his PM3 verified time, or will you come out with a whole new list of ways he could be cheating and insist it must have been 500m intervals and actually rowed by 4 different people and he paid people to lie and take photos of the results?<br /><br />If you were any sort of a sportsman or gentleman, now that you have goaded him into doing this, you would step back, shut up, and await the result with some sort of respect. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Seat5<br /><br />When Dwayne does his 2000m this weekend and passes all the information onto C2, when C2 have posted on here confirming that everything is how it should be and there are no anomalies with the row in any way, then yes, I will make a publicly apology on this forum for saying anything that may have made Dwayne look like a liar and a cheat.<br /><br />Dwayne will no doubt not accept it though, but I always tidy any mess up I have made.<br /><br />On the other hand, if C2 confirm they are not happy with it in some way, then it should be all you lot that where against me making an apology to me.<br /><br />Let’s wait and see what happens. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Chad:<br /><br />You really <b>DON'T </b>get it, do you? Because of this, this posting is likely to be a king-size waste of time. But I'm just sitting on the porcelin throne getting ready to do an interval workout, so I'll use the time leisurely here ... sorry for any spelling errors ... a skill I am yet to master without a spell checker ...<br /><br />It is irrelavent if Dwayne does or does not row this piece, or whether C2 does or does not accept his witnesses or validation materials for the piece. Without evidence, just your <b>feelings</b>, you've accused someone of being a liar and a cheat. Since that time, you've been unwilling to give anything but a qualified apology, which, in my mind, is far worse than no apopolgy as all. What you've essentially said, is, "I apologize Dwayne, but not really." Like Dwayne, I'd also tell you to stuff an apology like that.<br /><br />Please try, as hard as you can, to understand that there is no way, unless Dwayne admits he's a cheat and a liar, or one of his witnesses comes forward and says they faked a verification, that there is any way anyone here is going to apologize to you. As I've said in another post, even if Dwayne doesn't break 8:00 for a 2K piece today, or for the rest of his life, it's of no consequence. What you've accused him of was cheating on pieces ranked in the past ... and we can't go back in time (well, who knows, maybe you can, I certainly can't). <br /><br />The <b>facts </b>are that you accused him of being a liar and a cheat, with nothing to go on but your <b>feeling </b>of same, which you then <b>feel </b>is validated by a group who also <b>feel </b>like you, and thus <b>FEELING </b>that someone is a cheat and a liar is now reason to accuse them of same ... publicly.<br /><br />I have no idea where you live, or where the others that have exhibited this bahaviour live, but if your justice system(s) there accuse(s), try/tries, convict(s), and sentence(s) for punishment your land's people(s) this way when someone else <b>feels </b>they've committed some crime, please do let me know. I <b>NEVER </b>want to vist there ... or visit there again.<br /><br />Here's a tid-bit I'll add, as a way of help for you. I have a 15.5-year-old daughter still at home. I use people who exhibit the behaviour you've exhibited as examples of how I <b>DON'T </b>want her to grow up. And it's a challenge, because your type are legion.<br /><br />I'm trying to have her understand that the day one takes responsibility for their own life, their own goals, their own philosophy of living ... and stops blaming everything and everyone else for their situation ... as well as stops questioning, "why the success of others?" ... but instead studies that success in great detail, and stops caring what all other people, except those they respect and love, care about what they do ... and then tries to emulate the good aspects that have contributed to that success (which, by the way, are usually a very short list of knowledge, hard work (over time), tenacity, self-confidence, and honesty with one's self) ... is the most freeing day of one's life.<br /><br />I truely hope you have such a day in your life.<br /><br />Wram regards -- Mark

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 21st, 2006, 10:14 am

Thanks for the lecture Mark.<br /><br />What you don’t understand is what I have said hundreds of times. Dwayne is not a liar or a cheat!! He just can’t prove the times he has done. This is why topics like this one have come up not once, twice, three times..........etc maybe even into double figures now.<br /><br />In the real world, not everyone has the same view of things as you do.<br /><br />I have never said Dwayne is a liar nor a cheat, so would you please stop saying I have as it is becoming rather boring.<br /><br />Have a good training session.

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 21st, 2006, 10:40 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 21 2006, 10:14 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Thanks for the lecture Mark.<br /><br />What you don’t understand is what I have said hundreds of times. Dwayne is not a liar or a cheat!! He just can’t prove the times he has done. This is why topics like this one have come up not once, twice, three times..........etc maybe even into double figures now.<br /><br />In the real world, not everyone has the same view of things as you do.<br /><br />I have never said Dwayne is a liar nor a cheat, so would you please stop saying I have as it is becoming rather boring.<br /><br />Have a good training session. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Chad:<br /><br />Thanks for validating my feelings in the first paragraph of my last posting. The facts speak for themselves.<br /><br />-- Mark

[old] Porkchop · Post by **[old] Porkchop** » January 21st, 2006, 10:46 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 08:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 21 2006, 04:43 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(seat5 @ Jan 20 2006, 10:08 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Will you have the common decency to publicly apologize to Dwayne and congratulate him Monday when he's posted his PM3 verified time, or will you come out with a whole new list of ways he could be cheating and insist it must have been 500m intervals and actually rowed by 4 different people and he paid people to lie and take photos of the results?<br /><br />If you were any sort of a sportsman or gentleman, now that you have goaded him into doing this, you would step back, shut up, and await the result with some sort of respect. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Seat5<br /><br />When Dwayne does his 2000m this weekend and passes all the information onto C2, when C2 have posted on here confirming that everything is how it should be and there are no anomalies with the row in any way, then yes, I will make a publicly apology on this forum for saying anything that may have made Dwayne look like a liar and a cheat.<br /><br />Dwayne will no doubt not accept it though, but I always tidy any mess up I have made.<br /><br />On the other hand, if C2 confirm they are not happy with it in some way, then it should be all you lot that where against me making an apology to me.<br /><br />Let’s wait and see what happens. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Chad:<br /><br />You really <b>DON'T </b>get it, do you? Because of this, this posting is likely to be a king-size waste of time. But I'm just sitting on the porcelin throne getting ready to do an interval workout, so I'll use the time leisurely here ... sorry for any spelling errors ... a skill I am yet to master without a spell checker ...<br /><br />It is irrelavent if Dwayne does or does not row this piece, or whether C2 does or does not accept his witnesses or validation materials for the piece. Without evidence, just your <b>feelings</b>, you've accused someone of being a liar and a cheat. Since that time, you've been unwilling to give anything but a qualified apology, which, in my mind, is far worse than no apopolgy as all. What you've essentially said, is, "I apologize Dwayne, but not really." Like Dwayne, I'd also tell you to stuff an apology like that.<br /><br />Please try, as hard as you can, to understand that there is no way, unless Dwayne admits he's a cheat and a liar, or one of his witnesses comes forward and says they faked a verification, that there is any way anyone here is going to apologize to you. As I've said in another post, even if Dwayne doesn't break 8:00 for a 2K piece today, or for the rest of his life, it's of no consequence. What you've accused him of was cheating on pieces ranked in the past ... and we can't go back in time (well, who knows, maybe you can, I certainly can't). <br /><br />The <b>facts </b>are that you accused him of being a liar and a cheat, with nothing to go on but your <b>feeling </b>of same, which you then <b>feel </b>is validated by a group who also <b>feel </b>like you, and thus <b>FEELING </b>that someone is a cheat and a liar is now reason to accuse them of same ... publicly.<br /><br />I have no idea where you live, or where the others that have exhibited this bahaviour live, but if your justice system(s) there accuse(s), try/tries, convict(s), and sentence(s) for punishment your land's people(s) this way when someone else <b>feels </b>they've committed some crime, please do let me know. I <b>NEVER </b>want to vist there ... or visit there again.<br /><br />Here's a tid-bit I'll add, as a way of help for you. I have a 15.5-year-old daughter still at home. I use people who exhibit the behaviour you've exhibited as examples of how I <b>DON'T </b>want her to grow up. And it's a challenge, because your type are legion.<br /><br />I'm trying to have her understand that the day one takes responsibility for their own life, their own goals, their own philosophy of living ... and stops blaming everything and everyone else for their situation ... as well as stops questioning, "why the success of others?" ... but instead studies that success in great detail, and stops caring what all other people, except those they respect and love, care about what they do ... and then tries to emulate the good aspects that have contributed to that success (which, by the way, are usually a very short list of knowledge, hard work (over time), tenacity, self-confidence, and honesty with one's self) ... is the most freeing day of one's life.<br /><br />I truely hope you have such a day in your life.<br /><br />Wram regards -- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br />If I may add to this, Mark: <br /><br />Chad, you don't seem to understand that when you say publicly to anyone, "I don't believe what you have said," that necessarily implies the statement, "I think you are a liar." (The only exceptions would be where there could have been a mistake in observation or recollection, which is not the case here.) Perhaps you don't think calling someone a liar is a serious matter, but a significant number of people still do. Your private thoughts are your own business, your public comments are not. If you have no proof, then you have no business making such an allegation. <br /><br />Second, it is incredibly arrogant for you to demand proof of achievement from anyone. C2 is the governing body of this "sport"; you are not. C2 has accepted Mr. Adams times with the verification codes and all. Now, it may well be that the system is imperfect, but this thread has never been about the system; rather, it has been about character assassination, backbiting, and innuendo about someone you have apparently never met, but who was an easy target on an internet forum. <br /><br />Some of us have had the unfortunate experience of seeing lives ruined by the sort of conduct you have displayed here. Once an accusation is made, it will always linger: "Wasn''t he the guy that someone said cheated at . . .. I don't really know if I should trust him to . . .." What you have done is reprehensible.

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » January 21st, 2006, 10:50 am

Mark--<br /><br />I think this dispute is about facts, not feelings. There are of course lots of strong feelings thrown in, because it is such a contentious, serious, and personal dispute. And because Chad has been undiplomatic. <br /><br />The evidence regarding Dwayne's performances is not perfectly clear, alas. Follow the thread and you will see discrepancies that have been pointed out, problems w/ verification that remain. (I tracked down one witness, and his reply to me appears to confirm Dwayne's score, but ambiguity remains.) It is this murky evidence--uncertainty regarding facts--that is at question.<br /><br />Dwayne sits atop many of the sports' leaderboards. His achievements are remarkable, and he has been warm and supportive to many on this Forum. We all like him and want to believe. Ours is a unique sport, however, in that one can achieve the top-ranking position in his or her class w/out ever performing successfully in public.<br /><br />Chad is not the sole doubter, only the most vociferous and determined. (I have even wondered a time or two whether "Chad" is a single individual.) He (and others) argue that Dwayne owes it to other top-ranking ergers--to the sport, if you will--to demonstrate what he can do. Dwayne, encourged by Graham Benton, has graciously agreed. Soon, some facts will no longer be in dispute--we can hope.<br /><br />The residue of bad feelings may remain for a long time, but I have come to see this extended exchange as an effort to determine what the facts are in a particular case, but perhaps more essentially, what the performance requirements will be for a elite performer in general. It's a sort of a tribal reckoning.<br /><br />Tom

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Dwyane Adams - Fake Or Real?

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