Ranger - News To Shock

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-george nz+Dec 18 2005, 02:51 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(george nz @ Dec 18 2005, 02:51 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 18 2005, 08:49 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 18 2005, 08:49 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But, heck, you are so right! I am just a 55-year-old English professor having some fun with a hobby. <br /><br />No big deal.<br /><br />ranger<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />A hobby you spend 5 hours a day on starting at 4 in the morning - sounds a little obsessive to me for a 'hobby' - thats going to be some tapestry you hang on the wall (if it ever gets finished)<br /><br />George <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The average American watches over 5 hours of T.V., mostly in the evening. I no longer watch any T.V., really. I just go to bed early and get up early and row. <br /><br />I have been getting up early since graduate school, first, to spend more time on my professional work and so that I could run every day, but now for rowing and other sorts of cross training. <br />The early morning hours are nothing new or specific to rowing. I have been getting up at 4-5 a.m. for over 30 years, since about 1975. I only started rowing in 2000.<br /><br />The long hours I spend with rowing now are because, at the moment, I am the best at it for my age and weight. Being the best at something is an interesting position. You are at the edge of an envelope, however minor, and have a chance to push that envelope, if but a little. So I am trying to do my best to do this. I find this sort of thing exciting and satisfying.<br /><br />I also have the time to do this now. My children are grown and my career is secure (if not winding down into retirement). I don't have to spend _extra_ time on either of these now, so I can spend some extra time on trying to push the envelope in my rowing.<br /><br />Yes, it's a lot of work, but it is a great challenge, I like it, and it makes me feel great, both physically and mentally.<br /><br />To each his own, George.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />

[[old] onethirtyfive]

Hi Ranger,<br /><br />I cant imagine anyone doing as much as you unless you either really enjoyed it (that it was just for fun) or you had a specific goal in mind. I would be keen to here what motivates you, is it one or the other or both.<br /><br />cheers

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 18 2005, 11:14 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 18 2005, 11:14 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The long hours I spend with rowing now are because, at the moment, I am the best at it for my age and weight. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Not any more. <br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-onethirtyfive+Dec 19 2005, 02:28 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(onethirtyfive @ Dec 19 2005, 02:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi Ranger,<br /><br />I cant imagine anyone doing as much as you unless you either really enjoyed it (that it was just for fun) or you had a specific goal in mind.  I would be keen to here what motivates you, is it one or the other or both.<br /><br />cheers <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, I enjoy it--a lot. I have always done a lot of physical work just for health and enjoyment.<br /><br />I have also done a lot of boating in my life, and I love the OTW rowing for other reasons--the water, the fresh air, the mornings (dawn, mist off the wate), the outdoors (woods, wildlife, etc.). <br /><br />Taking up another sport also involves you in a new institution, a new community, a new tradition, etc., and I enjoy that, too.<br /><br />Lately, I have enjoyed exploring the technical sides of the rowing stroke. When I get good enough in my 1x to race well on the water, these technical aspects of the sport will become even more interesting and challenging, I think.<br /><br />As I mentioned in my note above, the only goal I have in mind now is to try to be the best I can be. I am capable of _a lot_ of work, so this hasn't been a simple matter. I can row all day, etc. I am _very_ patient and durable. This means there is almost no limit to the effort I can put into my rowing, if I want to and it doesn't conflict with other things. <br /><br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

I am happy to say that I am finally getting the most of my stroke, so these technical matters are now pretty much settled. Now it is just a matter of piling up the meters to maximize habituation, etc. <br /><br />When I take a full, strong stroke--with good suspension on the handle and a good finish with both my legs and my arms--I now pull close to 15 SPI (1:46 @ 20 spm, 1:48 @ 19, 1:50 @ 18 spm, 1:52 @ 17 spm, 1:54 @ 16 spm, etc. On the PM3, the force curve of this stroke comes out a perfect semicircle. No more work to be done there. <br /><br />This is quite a transformation in my stroking power. When I started working on my stroke almost three years ago, using proper technique and rowing at low drag, I could only pull about 10 SPI. Anything more was a strain and I quickly tired if I tried to raise the stroking power.<br /><br />The biggest asset I take away from this work on technique is a new _foundation_ to my training. Given my age and weight, rowing at 15 SPI and 16-20 spm over long distances is wonderful training for leverage, timing, quickness, strength, endurance, relaxation, rhythmicity, and so forth. <br /><br />The contours of my UT2 rowing are now set. I can now do this quality low spm work without special concentration, effort, etc. <br /><br />On to other tasks.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 19 2005, 05:43 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 19 2005, 05:43 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The biggest asset I take away from this work on technique is a new _foundation_ to my training. Given my age and weight, rowing at 15 SPI and 16-20 spm over long distances is wonderful training for leverage, timing, quickness, strength, endurance, relaxation, rhythmicity, and so forth.... <br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />More like, "in irregular intervals that when added up work out to long distances." That's not quite the same thing as "over long distances," which to my mind implies constant effort without pauses. Or are you now actually rowing, say, 1:45 pace r20 (15 spi r20) for an entire hour (17,143m)? If I'm not mistaken, that would beat your old, unrestricted PB by a considerable margin. Heck, it would even beat Rod Freed's listed WR of 17,132m.<br /><br />Next erg session, how about sitting down and rowing at 1:45 r20 and seeing how far you get without pausing before any of the following: the rating rises, the pace drops, the force curve deteriorates. Then post the results here. That should settle any doubts.

[[old] FrancoisA]

Rich,<br /><br />I know that you have done a lot of running, and many marathons earlier in your life. You are clearly more successful at erging than you were at running, even though you probably put a lot of efforts trying to achieve your full potential in running. Personally, I don't think that the fact that running is more competitive than erging is the explanation. <br /><br />From your perspective, what are the reasons that made you so successful at erging and relatively less successful at running?<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Francois

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->More like, "in irregular intervals that when added up work out to long distances." That's not quite the same thing as "over long distances," which to my mind implies constant effort without pauses </td></tr></table><br /><br />Once you can execute a stroke smoothly and easily, it is just a matter of numbers of meters rowed and time spent habituating to the movement and effort until you can row continuously for long distances at low rates. As I interpret them, this is the most basic principle of the standard rowing plans: If you want to do your best, establish a strong efficient stroke first before you move on to other things.<br /><br />No, establishing a strong stroke does not give you immediately cashable results. Then again, the foundations of any significant gain are never immediately cashable. They yield their results over time, at whatever distance needed for them to mature.<br /><br />Training dominated by sharpening spends rather than saves, consumes rather than invests. Sure, it is both more fun and (seemingly) more substantial to consume rather than invest. But when all is said and done, no matter what the activity, for those who want to do their best at something, a strategy of disciplined investment is more powerful in the end than a strategy of showy consumption. <br /><br />In rowing, establishing maximal endurance with a strong, efficient stroke is the compound interest of training. As time goes on, it pays and pays. Earnings crescendo as you go up the rate ladder. <br /><br />Nice to see the new Women's Open record by the French single sculler Sophie Balmary: 6:28.4. She rowed the new record at 32 spm (12.1 SPI). <br /><br />Nice stroking.<br /><br />Splits: 1:36.6, 1:37.7, 1:37.3, 1:36.8<br /><br />BTW, Balmary is just my size: 6 feet tall, 165 lbs.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->are you now actually rowing, say, 1:45 pace r20 (15 spi r20) for an entire hour (17,143m)? </td></tr></table><br /><br />Of course not. But rowing a lot at 15 SPI, however discontinuously, is making 12.5 SPI feel very nice and continuous indeed. I am not going to race at 15 SPI. I am going to race at 12.5 SPI. <br /><br />IMHO, you want to do you low spm rowing 2-3 SPI higher than your target 2K SPI. So to be able to have a target of 12.5 SPI, I need to be able to row efficiently at 15 SPI. <br /><br />Sure, rowing with breaks is not as good as rowing continuously, but one tends to lead to the other. That's what interval training is all about.<br /><br />The other pertinent fact here is that most 55-59 lwts row at about 9 SPI. So relative to my competition, racing at 12.5 SPI is getting the wheel spinning pretty nicely. No need for me to race at 15 SPI, although _you_ might want to, given your age and size. 15 SPI at 32 spm is a 6:02 2K., which would put you under Andy Ripley's 50-54 hwt WR.<br /><br />12.5 SPI at 32 spm is a 6:22 2K. The lwt 55-59 WR is now 6:40.8.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

I have a _very_ strong core, back, and upper body (e.g., I was also a swimmer and canoeist). These assets are wasted in running; in fact, they are a liability. My natural assets in running (strong legs, etc.) are also factors in my rowing but not vice versa. That is, I have excellent _full body_ power, just what is needed in rowing. <br /><br />The unusual premium put on cardiovascular capacity in rowing (vs. other sports) might be another reason I seem to be a natural rower. Given my age, I seem to retain a freakishly full cardiovascular capacity (high thresholds, maximal heart rate, etc.).<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

Before I worked on my stroke, I used to race at 10.7 SPI.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] Ray79]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 19 2005, 12:05 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 19 2005, 12:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->12.5 SPI at 32 spm is a 6:22 2K. The lwt 55-59 WR is now 6:40.8.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />But you are not 55 yet. Irrelevant facts about the numbers. The WR for _your_ age division (not the one you will be in after our next birthday) is 6:25.8. You are still planning on racing before your 55th birthday arent you?? Or was that just all hot air as well??<br />

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 19 2005, 12:05 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 19 2005, 12:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />IMHO, you want to do you low spm rowing 2-3 SPI higher than your target 2K SPI. So to be able to have a target of 12.5 SPI, I need to be able to row efficiently at 15 SPI. <br /><br />Sure, rowing with breaks is not as good as rowing continuously, but one tends to your age and size. 15 SPI at 32 spm is a 6:02 2K., which would put you under Andy Ripley's 50-54 hwt WR.....<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Gee, that makes this morning's throwaway 8 x 500m r20, 1' rest @ an average 16.2 spi look pretty good, since 14.2 spi at 32 spm is a 6:08 2k. <br /><br />Of course the 17.7 spi I did on the last one looks even better: 15.7 spi at 32 spm would work out to a 5:54, if pigs grew wings, Hades froze solidly over, my mother-in-law voted socialist, and it became as easy as you think to carry over spi as you up the rating.

[[old] hjs]

<br />

More like, "in irregular intervals that when added up work out to long distances." That's not quite the same thing as "over long distances," which to my mind implies constant effort without pauses

<br /><br /><br />No, establishing a strong stroke does not give you immediately cashable results. Then again, the foundations of any significant gain are never immediately cashable. They yield their results over time, at whatever distance needed for them to mature.<br /><br />Training dominated by sharpening spends rather than saves, consumes rather than invests. Sure, it is both more fun and (seemingly) more substantial to consume rather than invest. But when all is said and done, no matter what the activity, for those who want to do their best at something, a strategy of disciplined investment is more powerful in the end than a strategy of showy consumption. <br /><br /><br /><br />Your not that young anymore ranger So the time has come to consume or you will be to old to consume!<br /><br />What will be your first race this season? and are you 100% certain you will race that race. Although you right about the need to invest, you also need moments make sure you invest the right way. And the only thing that really counts is a real time in a real race. <br />You got to do the walk after all the talk <br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gee, that makes this morning's throwaway 8 x 500m r20, 1' rest @ an average 16.2 spi look pretty good, since 14.2 spi at 32 spm is a 6:08 2k. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well, it's a start. But if you rowed 20-30K at 16.2 SPI @ 20 spm instead of 4K, tried to row as far as you could before you needed a break, instead of a set 500m, and took breaks of 15 seconds or so instead of 1', you would be further down the line.<br /><br /> <br /><br />If you want to catch Ripley, the target for you in terms of low rate rowing is pretty clear: 30'r20 @ 1:43. That's 15.6 SPI.<br /><br />To catch Watt, I need 13.7 SPI for 30'r20. That's 1:48.6<br /><br />The catch Hastings, I need 11.5 SPI for 30'r20. That's 1:54.5<br /><br />ranger