Not Losing

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 30 2005, 07:38 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 30 2005, 07:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Dec 30 2005, 08:47 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Dec 30 2005, 08:47 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the 13 times more energie is an average. So take 100 people let them jog 100 meter and than run a full blast 100 meter. This has nothing to do with bodyweight. <br /><br />And don't ask questions for which you know the answer already. </td></tr></table><br /> <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You also know that a top marathonrunner has the same % of bodyfat as a sprinter or a jumper. </td></tr></table><br />I would say that is not the case, and marathoners have much less body fat. The higher muscle mass of sprinters tends to greatly underestimate their percentage of body fat.<br /><br />More importantly for performance, distance athletes have a far greater percentage of their fat IN the muscle fibers, where this energy can be used for the exercise. Sprinters have their fat outside the muscles, around them and elsewhere, the same as those who are sedentary.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't believe you are even something which is so obvious like this are trying to turn and bent in your favor.     [right] </td></tr></table><br />Why not. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />You're such an ignorant man it's almost unbelievebel. I could explain how the energie is recruted for a marathonrun but I won't, if someone tells you snow is white or blood is red you will still quistion that.<br /><br />By the way I read you row a lot at 2.25 pace rate 26. I tried this today, I couldn't no matter how softly I pulled the splits kept on going below 2.25 Rowing at such a pace has nothing to do with training. My hartrate kept below 100 <br /> <br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Dec 30 2005, 01:10 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Dec 30 2005, 01:10 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I could explain how the energie is recruted for a marathonrun but I won't[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />How many marathons have you run?<br />

[[old] anthonys]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 30 2005, 06:02 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 30 2005, 06:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Dec 30 2005, 01:10 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Dec 30 2005, 01:10 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I could explain how the energie is recruted for a marathonrun but I won't[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />How many marathons have you run? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I've run 26 marathons, john, and 6 ultras and have PB at the 50 mile distance of 7 hrs 42 minutesor thereabouts. weight at the time was 142 and BF% 7.8 (water weighed). I couldn't bench press shit unless I had a hoist attached. The "lean" look of marathoners is most probably from muscle wasting. <br /><br />I don't run at all now This AM I weighed 165.8 w/ 9.9% BF (caliper measured). I exercise (in the true meaning of the team) once per week using a HIT strength training protocol on an A and B routine (which is machine specific for rowing) w/ a 5"pos and 5"neg movement cycle, one set to complete failure; total workout time 18 minutes for each routine. I row when I feel moved to do so, and that's not very often, though I expect that will change soon as I get back my Polar monitor from the service repair center.<br /><br />Last and most important, I manage my energy intake using a hybrid combination of Sears' Zone Diet and the Eades' Protein Power diet. Actually, I don't "diet" at all, I just simply construct my energy intake based upon a ratio of 60% protein, 20% low glycemic load COH, and 20% "good fat." I restrict my intake to my Basal Metabolic Rate of 1960, hence, any activity above that number goes into the weight maintenance column. I know all this because I log my intake on balance log software and calculate my glycemic load using software dedicated to that purpose. Whenever I feel like it, I eat and drink whatever the h*** I feel like in amounts that suit the celebratory occasion. Good source of info on all this is www.seriousstrength.com; www.nutritionandmetabolism.com. /><br />Just like I have a lot of trainees who are damn strong and also damn fat, I have a whole bunch of friends who are fat runners and who complain that they cannot fit into their daily life the 7 hours of activity they believe is necessary to "lose weight." <br /><br />tony<br /><br />[/COLOR][/B]

[[old] John Rupp]

Hi Tony,<br /><br />26 marathons is very good.<br /><br />That's too bad you don't run any more.<br /><br />20% of calories from fat is a lot.<br /><br />I don't quite understand your HIT routine. It would be interesting to hear what you do. If I remember correctly, the HIT idea is working to failure each session? What kinds of strength gains are you seeing from this?<br /><br />Everyone has 24 hours in a day. <br /><br />It is no different for you or me then for anyone else, and exercise is NOT a criteria to lose weight.

[[old] Yoda1]

<!--QuoteBegin-anthonys+Dec 30 2005, 06:33 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(anthonys @ Dec 30 2005, 06:33 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 30 2005, 06:02 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 30 2005, 06:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Dec 30 2005, 01:10 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Dec 30 2005, 01:10 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I could explain how the energie is recruted for a marathonrun but I won't[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />How many marathons have you run? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I've run 26 marathons, john, and 6 ultras and have PB at the 50 mile distance of 7 hrs 42 minutesor thereabouts. weight at the time was 142 and BF% 7.8 (water weighed). I couldn't bench press shit unless I had a hoist attached. The "lean" look of marathoners is most probably from muscle wasting. <br /><br />I don't run at all now This AM I weighed 165.8 w/ 9.9% BF (caliper measured). I exercise (in the true meaning of the team) once per week using a HIT strength training protocol on an A and B routine (which is machine specific for rowing) w/ a 5"pos and 5"neg movement cycle, one set to complete failure; total workout time 18 minutes for each routine. I row when I feel moved to do so, and that's not very often, though I expect that will change soon as I get back my Polar monitor from the service repair center.<br /><br />Last and most important, I manage my energy intake using a hybrid combination of Sears' Zone Diet and the Eades' Protein Power diet. Actually, I don't "diet" at all, I just simply construct my energy intake based upon a ratio of 60% protein, 20% low glycemic load COH, and 20% "good fat." I restrict my intake to my Basal Metabolic Rate of 1960, hence, any activity above that number goes into the weight maintenance column. I know all this because I log my intake on balance log software and calculate my glycemic load using software dedicated to that purpose. Whenever I feel like it, I eat and drink whatever the h*** I feel like in amounts that suit the celebratory occasion. Good source of info on all this is www.seriousstrength.com; www.nutritionandmetabolism.com. /><br />Just like I have a lot of trainees who are damn strong and also damn fat, I have a whole bunch of friends who are fat runners and who complain that they cannot fit into their daily life the 7 hours of activity they believe is necessary to "lose weight." <br /><br />tony<br /><br />[/COLOR][/B] <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Tony,<br />I don't mean to interupt you and John, but could you please explain your second paragraph in your last post? Thanks.<br /><br />Yoda

[[old] anthonys]

Hi Yoda,<br /><br />I'm not sure what part of it you'd like me to explain, so I apologize if I'm off the mark. I only meant to say that my energy fuel is simply taking in about 60% protein, 20% carbs (low glycemic load value - see www.glycemic.com) and the other 20% in good quality fats. Also, since BMR (basal metabolic rate) accounts for about 75% caloric demand during a 24 hour period, and activity the remainder, if I restrict my intake to the value of my BMR, I will lose weight simply because there is another 25% attributable to activity level that has no caloric support, as it were. If I take in my BMR plus the calories required to support my activity level, then I maintain my weight.<br /><br />HTH,<br /><br />tony

[[old] anthonys]

Hey John,<br /><br />yep, exercise is not a pre-requisite to weight loss for sure. <br /><br />Nope, running just sucks for me having done so much of it for so long - shucks I began "running" in 1970 - argh; that's when my running shoes were Converse high tops Backpacking, however, is still on my list, and especially trail walking w/ my pack and my golden retriever. Now that's living!!!<br /><br />My HIT routine is an outgrowth of what has been popularized as "Slow Burn," or, "Power of Ten," or "Super Slow." Presently I'm doing a variation on the SS protocol in which I have an A and a B routine, 7 different machines, some of which compliment each other between A & B, some of which are the same, e.g., A I do a calf raise on a Nautilus Multi-Ex machine; B I do a calf raise on a Nautilus XPLoad. <br /><br />Presently my A routine includes: Nautilus neck extension - 55#'s TUL 2 minutes for stretching purposes only; Nautilus XPLoad calf press - 110#'s; Hammer Strength MTS seated leg curl - 90#'s each leg; Nitro Leg Press - 370#'s; Nitro compound row - 155#'s; Nitro vertical pec fly 100#'s (Moved to that because I had maxed out on the Nitro decline fly at over 200#'s); 2nd Gen abdominal machine (women's version) with legs extended horizontally in front of me, slightly bent at hip w/ knees higher than waist and shins parallel to floor. (all TUL's are 60" or whenever complete failure occurs)<br /><br />My B routine consists of: Hammer Strength MTS leg extension 110#'s each leg; Life Fitness, hip extensions 45#'s each leg (my trainer engineered this ex, evil man that he is ); Multi-Ex calf raises, 245#'s; Nautilus Smith machine bent over row, back flat and parallel to bench I'm standing on w/ bar touching bench and raising bar to base of my sternum 70#'s (including bar); Smith machine seated vertical press 100#'s (I think I got that right); Nitro back extension 140#'s; 2nd Gen hip flexion/abdominal contraction - I don't remember the weight, it hurt too much .<br /><br />Each exercise is done to complete failure, i.e., I am no longer able to carry out the concentric phase of the movement cycle, or I am unable to prevent the eccentric movement from taking place. Each movement cycle is 5" positive and 5" negative. The critical measurement variable is not the number of repetitions, but rather the time under load (TUL). For me, my trainer has chosen weights, and increases them for each session, as a function of what ensures that I fail completely in 60". If I fail sooner, then the next session the weight stays the same; if I reach 60" or longer, then the weight was too light and so it is increased, usually by 5%, for the next session.<br /><br />How strong I am is difficult to quantify because of the lack of correspondence across the tools by which the weights are lifted. E.g., I can leg press 355# for 71" TUL (5/5 protocol) on my Nautilus XPLoad leg press, but only 290 on Nautilus 2nd Generation and that is because the cams of each machine (well, the XP does not have cams as such), but the ergonomics of each machine is different. <br /><br />One way that I assess the effectiveness of my HIT training is how easy/difficult it is for me to carry on an activity I enjoy w/o having trained specfically for it. In that context, I have been able to cycle 50 plus miles at about 17 mph at any time of my choosing and feel afterward as though I had just gone for a walk. Now, that distance and pace will not have Lance Armstrong worried I'm sure, but it's meaningful to me. The more meaningful measures, however, in combination w/ my diet, is that my blood pressure has dropped from 144/95 to 110/70 (lowest reading), with a more common 123/77; MAP generally in the high 80's to low 90's; pulse usually about 72 on waking. I haven't bothered to have my blood chemistry done.<br /><br />HTH,<br /><br />tony

[[old] Yoda1]

Ahhhaaaa,<br /><br />Finally, someone that has some experience of Super Slow. And likes it because it works. Thank you Tony for posting your workout. I just haven't been able to get my thoughts of SS across to our fellow posters regarding SS and it's value.<br /><br />Yoda

[[old] anthonys]

<!--QuoteBegin-Yoda1+Dec 31 2005, 06:41 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Yoda1 @ Dec 31 2005, 06:41 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ahhhaaaa,<br /><br />Finally, someone that has some experience of Super Slow.  And likes it because it works.  Thank you Tony for posting your workout.  I just haven't been able to get my thoughts of SS across to our fellow posters regarding SS and it's value.<br /><br />Yoda <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yoda,<br /><br />I have long since quit trying , rather taking the energy instead and applying it to a better workout for me. In fairness, though, part of the problem is that there are a limited number of really competent HIT/SS instructors about. Also, some who are are SS "nazi's," and by that I mean they will fire a client if the client does any cardiovascular metabolic work, e.g., running, cycling, rowing, etc. I think that's stupid. Last, there are some folks who have the luxury of the time required using conventional weight lifting protocols to spend 5 days in the gym, doing multiple sets, in exotic rep and weight schemes, risk a significant higher incidence of injury secondary to the momentum, etc. But, hey, whatever "floats their boat, eh?" Meanwhile I'm more than happy to share with you or anyone who's interested in my workout approach. Just PM me and it'll keep the information from deteriorating into a morass of claim/counterclaim, blah, blah. <br /><br />take care,<br /><br />tony

[[old] hjs]

How many marathons have you run?<br /><br /><br /><br />JR<br /><br />I have always been quit actif as a sportsman. More as a strengt and shorter distancerunner than the longer distance's. I competed not at worldclasslevel but reaced a reasenable level.<br />Coopertest (12m run) 3600 meters.<br />highjump 2 meters. <br />benchpress 154kg (340lbs) I weight 103 kg at that time<br /><br />During my career I used to be a trainer to.<br />In my prime my weight was between 82/90 kg (x 2,2 for lbs) my bodyfat % was al the time between 5/10%. <br /><br />At the moment I am a fat leazy heavyweight as you would call it bodyfat % around 10% 96kg. My abs are showing. Afcause this means nothing to you cause I don,t exercise for hours a day on a very low intensity. <br /><br />I eat fairly normal, don,t diet. I think you should eat a lot of protien, complex carbs and good Fats. And eat enough vegetables and fruit. Drink plenty to.<br /><br />For exercise, it's enough to train 3/4 times a week. focus on quality not on volume. Do 2/3 times a week 30/45 minutes weighttraining, train fairly heavy. keep the reps between 8/15 and reach failure. Train every musclegroep 2/3 times /2 weeks.<br />after each training do 20/25 minutes cardio, again not to slow, make it a good workout. ofcause don't go to failure on this one. Train firmly but not fullblast. <br /><br />What have you done John, I understand you ran marathons, what is your PB?<br />personaly I like a good marathonrun, people who run a 4 hour one shoukd do something else I think. Just making K's means not much to me. <br /><br />

[[old] mpukita]

Check out the New Year's Resolution URL in my signature ...

[[old] John Rupp]

Hi Tony,<br /><br />Sounds like a great program for you -- keep up the good work.

[[old] John Rupp]

My first official marathon was 4:17, and it was the hardest of the 36 that I ran.<br /><br />Little kids 2 feet tall kept blazing by me the last 10k and there was nothing I was able to do to keep up with them.<br /><br />I ran the same marathon in consecutive years in 4:17, 3:34, 3:07, 2:49, and 2:35.

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 31 2005, 06:18 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 31 2005, 06:18 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My first official marathon was 4:17, and it was the hardest of the 36 that I ran.<br /><br />Little kids 2 feet tall kept blazing by me the last 10k and there was nothing I was able to do to keep up with them.<br /><br />I ran the same marathon in consecutive years in 4:17, 3:34, 3:07, 2:49, and 2:35. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Ok john,<br /><br />Keep up producing posts like this. Although a 2.35 marathon is not elite level is it certainly no jog in the park, nice work.<br />There is no need to get a patt ajustment for this . It is just in itself good enough.<br /><br />At what age did you run that time?<br />Have you done Other sports in your life? <br />And what is your goal at the moment in rowing.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Jan 1 2006, 04:15 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 1 2006, 04:15 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->At what age did you run that time?<br />Have you done Other sports in your life? <br />And what is your goal at the moment in rowing.[right] </td></tr></table><br />Age 31.<br /><br />I played baseball to age 14 but have disliked it since then.<br /><br />Then I went out for track and ran the 880 and mile. There was nothing longer at that time. I ran my first marathon around a dirt track by myself at age 19 in 3:28:56. Then I got out of shape for a few years and ran a 440 in 51.7. In my mid 20's I did Olympic Weightlifting for 2 years and didn't run for 5 years. Then I went to a track one day and ran an 880 time trial. Expecting to run around 2 minutes, I was disappointed so stopped lifting weights and started running again. It took me a few years to keep getting back my speed and endurance.<br /><br />Mostly since then I have been just doing running for athletics, and more recently on the rowing machine.<br /><br />How about you?<br />