Ranger - News To Shock

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dwaynne has every distance record except the official 2000 doesn't he? And he's done a witnessed 5:47/2000. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks, Gary.<br /><br />That's one right answer.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

Rowing is pretty strange.<br /><br />At the very top levels of performance (i.e., at levels where people work as hard as they can and try to do the very best that they can), there really only _needs_ to be one race: the 2K.<br /><br />Ideally, the rower who is best at the 2K is best at all of the other distances, too.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Dec 14 2005, 05:51 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Dec 14 2005, 05:51 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 14 2005, 05:11 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 14 2005, 05:11 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If I can do a marathon at 1:50, it will be about 10 minutes better than any 55-59 lwt has done. If I can still do 2K at 1:37 (or below), it will be about 13 seconds better than any 55-59 lwt has done.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />GLENDOWERANGER: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. <br /><br />HOTNAVHASPUR: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? <br /><br />GLENDOWERANGER: Why, I can teach you, cousin, to command the devil. <br /><br />HOTNAVHASPUR: And I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil by telling truth: tell truth and shame the devil. If thou have power to raise him, bring him hither, and I'll be sworn I have power to shame him hence. O, while you live, tell truth and shame the devil! <br /><br /> -- Henry IV Part 1 Act III Scene 1. Vermont, the Archdeacon's Virtual Room. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />MORTIMERPAULSMITH: Come, come, no more of this unprofitable chat. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 14 2005, 02:11 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 14 2005, 02:11 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was rowing at 200 df. with poor technique. </td></tr></table><br />Your technique was better then.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If my 2K is 1:37 </td></tr></table><br />But it isn't. <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"double the d, add 3" predicts 17K for an hour and 1:50 pace for a marathon. With my more efficient stroke, I think I will now hit both of those targets this winter </td></tr></table><br />You haven't done that this winter, or the winter before, or the winter before that. And you're still training the same, so you will get the same results as before. <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->as I lighten up my stroke </td></tr></table><br />We shall see. <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and start going for pace rather than power. </td></tr></table><br />Pace is calculated from watts, thus pace is the same thing as power. <br /><br />What you mean to say is that you will start rowing at a faster pace and thus more power than you were.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If so, my speed and distance times will be exactly balanced. </td></tr></table><br />Only if and when you break all of Rod Freed's records, and hold the 2k record at the same time, which I sincerely doubt that you will. However all best regards. <br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Dec 14 2005, 05:51 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Dec 14 2005, 05:51 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 14 2005, 05:11 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 14 2005, 05:11 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If I can do a marathon at 1:50, it will be about 10 minutes better than any 55-59 lwt has done. If I can still do 2K at 1:37 (or below), it will be about 13 seconds better than any 55-59 lwt has done.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />GLENDOWERANGER: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. <br /><br />HOTNAVHASPUR: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? <br /><br />GLENDOWERANGER: Why, I can teach you, cousin, to command the devil. <br /><br />HOTNAVHASPUR: And I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil by telling truth: tell truth and shame the devil. If thou have power to raise him, bring him hither, and I'll be sworn I have power to shame him hence. O, while you live, tell truth and shame the devil! <br /><br /> -- Henry IV Part 1 Act III Scene 1. Vermont, the Archdeacon's Virtual Room. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 14 2005, 06:40 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 14 2005, 06:40 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ideally, the rower who is best at the 2K for some age and weight is also best at the marathon.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Another totally false presumption.<br /><br />You have admitted yourself that you could not train like Freed and row your best times for the 2k.<br /><br />Thus you will never approach Freed's times for the distances.<br /><br />Even if you did train like Freed, the possibility is very great that you would still not better his times.<br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Dec 14 2005, 05:51 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Dec 14 2005, 05:51 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 14 2005, 05:11 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 14 2005, 05:11 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If I can do a marathon at 1:50, it will be about 10 minutes better than any 55-59 lwt has done. If I can still do 2K at 1:37 (or below), it will be about 13 seconds better than any 55-59 lwt has done.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />GLENDOWERANGER: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. <br /><br />HOTNAVHASPUR: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? <br /><br />GLENDOWERANGER: Why, I can teach you, cousin, to command the devil. <br /><br />HOTNAVHASPUR: And I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil by telling truth: tell truth and shame the devil. If thou have power to raise him, bring him hither, and I'll be sworn I have power to shame him hence. O, while you live, tell truth and shame the devil! <br /><br /> -- Henry IV Part 1 Act III Scene 1. Vermont, the Archdeacon's Virtual Room. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />HOTNAVHASPUR:<br /><br /> Sometimes he angers me<br />Wth telllng me of the moldwarp and the ant,<br />Of the dreamer Merlin and his prophecies,<br />And of a dragon and a finless fish,<br />A clip-winged griffin and a moulten raven,<br />A crouching lion and a ramping cat,<br />And such a deal of skimble-skamble stuff<br />As puts me from my faith. I tell you what--<br />He held me last night at least nine hours <br />In reckoning up the several devils names<br />That were his lackeys. I cried 'hum.' and 'well, go to!"<br />But marked him not a word. O, he is as tedious<br />As a tired horse, a railing wife;<br />Worse than a smoky house. I had rather live<br />With cheese and garlic in a windmill far<br />Than feed on cates and have him talk to me<br />In any summer house in Christendom.<br /><br />I had rather be a kitten and cry mew<br />Than one of these same metre ballet-mongters.<br />I had rather hear a brazen canstick turned<br />Or a dry wheel grate on the axletree,<br />And that would set my teeth nothing on edge,<br />Nothing so much as mincing poetry.<br />'Tis llike the forced gait of a shuffling nag.<br /><br />MORTIMERPAULSMITH:<br /><br />In faith, he is a worthy gentleman,<br />Exceedingly well read, and profited<br />In strange concealments, valiant as a lion,<br />And wondrous affable, and as bountiful<br />As mines of India. Shall I tell you, cousin?<br />He holds your temper in a high respect<br />And curbs himself even of his natural scope<br />When you come 'cross his humor. Faith, he does.<br />I warrant you that man is not alive<br />Might so have tempted him as you have done<br />Without the taste of danger and reproof.<br />But do not use it oft, let me entreat you.<br /><br /> <br /><br />See you at the races, NH!<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />P.S. Apologies to the Bard<br /> <br /><br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thus you will never approach Freed's times for the distances. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Tsk, tsk.<br /><br />Never say never.<br /><br />Especially in sports.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] John Rupp]

We shall see.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I would have thought that if you were entering a 'sharpening' phase you would be doing more 'Specific' type training i.e. erging rather than cross training. Presumably this cross training is to supplement your aerobic training on erg?<br /><br />A few questions:<br /><br />(1) At what stage before your next 2k race (third week in Jan 06?) will you commence sharpening. <br />(2) What will your 'sharpening' training consist of?<br />(3) Will you do a home trial 2k test prior to your next 2k race? If so, what do you predict?<br />(4) When was your last 'all-out' 2k (old stroke or new) and what was your time?<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I cross-train _more_ in racing season than at any other time. Cross-training is great for recovery, relaxation, weight control, agility, quickness, aeorobic capacity, and many other matters.<br /><br />I do pretty much what anyone does when they sharpen: fartleks, short intervals, long intervals, distance trials, etc. <br /><br />No, I won't do a home trial. But I will do 4 x 2K as much as possible. If I get to my goal, these will be done at 1:40, which is under the 55-59 lwt WR.<br /><br />My last 2Ks were in 2003: 6:30, 6:29, 6:28, 6:32.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We shall see </td></tr></table><br /><br />So what are Freed's times this year, which are the standards to beat?<br /><br />We are both 55.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 14 2005, 08:20 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 14 2005, 08:20 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->for me you say. For a 6 min race or a 2,5 hour race you wil have to do the same. And the winnaar of a 2 k should also win a marathon at the same time. <br />Everybody knows this can,t en is not true. strange strange strange the way you think. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, being sensible on this forum can seem strange!<br /><br />I sympathize with your response.<br /><br />So, some questions:<br /><br />Who has the best hwt 40s marathon this year?<br />Who has the best lwt 50s marathon ever?<br /><br />If you lined up a bunch of 30s lwt ergers, the best in the world, to row a marathon, who would you pick to win?<br /><br />And so forth.<br /><br /><br />If I look at other sports, then you wil never see a athlete winning a 6/7 minutes race and at the same time winning a 2,5 hour race. Competing at toplevel I mean.<br />A good example would the be cycling. Very developed.<br />Take the best longer time trialers. The one that can win the longer stages can't win the shorter proloogs. And the real fast racers don't even compete. They ride on the track.<br />The reasing I think is that doing a good 6/7 minutes race takes een good endurence but also good speed. For speed you need to have fast twitch muscle fibers.<br />A top marathoner doesn,t need real speed. So by nature you have to be different. This can't be altered, you are born that way. The only thing you can do is develop your talents.<br />And don't think rowing is different. No matter what sport you do. Running, rowing, cycling, swimming. It's the same by principle.<br /><br />But nevertheless. I wish you very good luck the upcomin races. <br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And don't think rowing is different. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I do indeed think rowing is different, and this belief is backed by quite a bit of evidence.<br /><br /> <br /><br />I think the oddness of rowing might be traced to the full body _power_ needed for the easy use of a quality rowing stroke. There is nothing comparable to this in the other sports that you mention. <br /><br />A big strong rower, if they develop their endurance, can row along easily at, say, 13 SPI and 24 spm (1:44), perhaps for as long as a marathon. A little guy, rowing easily at 9 SPI, would have to row 35 spm to keep up. This is possible but not very likely for as long as a marathon. <br /><br />Any sport that involves gravity, such as running, is also inappropriate in a comparison. Rowing is not weight bearing; therefore, big guys aren't penalized by their weight in the longer events.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

Another nice 80 minutes on the stepper after erging this morning, this time at a higher wattage, 305 watts, to keep my heart rate up. Finishing HR 150 bpm.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 15 2005, 06:53 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 15 2005, 06:53 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Another nice 80 minutes on the stepper after erging this morning, this time at a higher wattage, 305 watts, to keep my heart rate up. Finishing HR 150 bpm.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Shouldn't that be 80 minutes at a 1:44.7 on the Erg, as you suggest an equivalency existing between the two? Come on, why waste time stepping when you could be ingraining that technique at a "nice easy" level where the stress does not make concentration difficult.