Wolverine Plan Discussion

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » December 6th, 2005, 2:10 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Thomas @ Dec 6 2005, 02:06 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 5 2005, 08:05 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Polaco @ Dec 5 2005, 12:38 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I will have lots of money in my account to pay for a medal as you like to say Cheers!![right] </td></tr></table> Keep saving, and I will send you a tshirt! </td></tr></table> I actually did that in the spring of 2003. I was so impressed with the results of the Wolverine Plan, I sent Mike Caviston a sweat shirt from my college alamater in an effort to show my appreciation. John, I think that is an excellent idea. I would also suggest for anyone to send Mike Caviston a t-shirt of your college or high school alamater to show your own appreciaton for the Wolverine Plan. </td></tr></table> I had best not do this (being an Ohio State grad) since Mike teaches at "That School up North". Maybe I can get him a nice Roots sweatshirt on my next trip to Canada (in a few weeks). No conflict there. And great quality products. Mike, what size do you wear?

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » December 6th, 2005, 2:31 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Thomas @ Dec 6 2005, 02:06 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I actually did that in the spring of 2003. I was so impressed with the results of the Wolverine Plan, I sent Mike Caviston a sweat shirt from my college alamater in an effort to show my appreciation. </td></tr></table> Thomas, the sweatshirt you sent comes in handy as the inner layer during these blustery cold Michigan winter days! <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 6 2005, 02:10 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Mike, what size do you wear? </td></tr></table> I want to state for the record that the Wolverine Plan is strictly a non-profit endeavor and the author is happy to share whatever small amount of expertise he has with anyone who asks completely free of charge… …but I wear a large. Mike Caviston

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » December 6th, 2005, 3:45 pm

Hi Mike, I am glad to hear it. If you could provide an address for those who wish to partake in this, it would be appreciated. You do have addresses listed on the University of Michigan web site, but I don't know if they are up to date. Later, Thomas

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » December 6th, 2005, 3:46 pm

By the way, you deserve it.

[old] FrancoisA · Post by **[old] FrancoisA** » December 6th, 2005, 4:00 pm

As a show of our appreciation, and as a Christmas gift , we could use our collective purchase power and get Mike something like the Concept2 slides or the ErgMonitor. What do you think?

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » December 6th, 2005, 4:02 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Dec 6 2005, 04:00 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>As a show of our appreciation, and as a Christmas gift , we could use our collective purchase power and get Mike something like the Concept2 slides or the ErgMonitor. What do you think? </td></tr></table> Francois: Outstanding idea. Count me in, otherwise I need to get the Roots sweatshirt! -- Mark

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » December 6th, 2005, 4:05 pm

Quite frankly, I think any sort of gift would be nice. I think though that John's idea of a T-shirt would be a little more personal for each of us. Mike would actually physically see the appreciation on several different levels from a wide array of sources. It would also be more immediate and easier for anyone to do. I ordered that sweatshirt on-line, which made it quite simple.

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » December 6th, 2005, 4:45 pm

Well, let’s put this topic to bed. First of all, while I’m very appreciative of the positive sentiment, I’m not soliciting any gifts! But here’s something to think about. All the years I spent coaching, at the end of the season the athletes would all chip in and buy a gift or two. Sometimes the gifts would be embarrassingly expensive, coming from a bunch of cash-strapped students, and while I appreciated them I would feel pretty guilty. I finally got the message across that what I could really use was some sort of scrap book for the season. So the athletes began putting together scrap books with pictures, short notes, and little mementos of the season (press clippings, etc.) They cost almost nothing to put together but it became a really personal gift and I will always treasure them. So maybe somebody would want to take charge of gathering pictures of any WP-followers, maybe racing or training on the erg, with a short personal note saying who you are and where you’re from and stuff like that. Barring something unexpected, I plan to be racing in Boston in February, so that would be a good time and place for someone to deliver such a project. Now, let’s save the Wolverine Plan Discussion thread for discussing the Wolverine Plan! Thanks much, Mike Caviston

[old] ragiarn · Post by **[old] ragiarn** » December 6th, 2005, 8:55 pm

This morning I started on my second go around for the 3 week rotation of the Wolverine Plan. I spent much of the first 3 weeks experimenting and trying to find my way around. I have learned more about the proper training on the rower in these 3 weeks than I have in the past year searching through the various discussion groups on C2 training forums (USA and England) I picked up some good and some not so good information on the these forums. Probably the best information I received was when I was reading through the discussion on “Pete’s Plan” (an eviscerated imitation of the WP) and came across a references to the original Wolverine plan which brought me to this discussion group. The rest as they say is history. For the past 3-4 weeks I have read every posting on this discussion forum. I have downloaded the Wolverine plan from the website. I have the entire wolverine plan outlined and cataloqued for quick reference and have downloaded all of Mike Caviston’s posts with clarification of the finer points of the WP plan. As I stated in my original post my hobby for the past 20 years has been to study exercise physiology most specifically with regards to endurance exercise, physiology of the aging athlete, and exercise physiology and nutrition as it applies to bicycle racing. An excellent source on the web is Dr. Stephen Seiler’s website. Masters Athlete Physiology and Performance. <a href='http://home.hia.no/~stephens/index.html' target='_blank'>http://home.hia.no/~stephens/index.html</a> I came across this website about 5-6 years ago and found the authors explanation for the physiology behind training straight forward, on the point and very knowledgeable but in a form designed the help the non scientist understand the science behind it all. Dr. Seiler is an exercise physiologist with research in muscle physiology. He was originally from Texas but has moved to Norway. He written numerous articles on physiology of the endurance athlete, the aging athlete, and on physiology of rowing. His first sport is rowing and has a gold medal in the 4x at the Masters Nationals. While the website deals with several sports the best part is the area dealing with the physiology of rowing. The Wolverine Plan is based on very sound physiological principles and it is not just a bunch of exercises put together on a whim by Mike Caviston. If you understand exercise physiology you will understand the rationale behind all the details especially in the L4 workouts. I am not sure if anyone is interested in physiology of the WP but I find it very intriguing. Probably much like a CPA finds rows of numbers very intriguing. If you are interested in understanding Mike’s rationale in putting together this program I would suggest that you either go to the above cited website or wait for Mike Caviston to write his book or start his own website. If anyone is interested I plan to try explain my interpretation of physiological the basis of the WP plan. Ralph Giarnella PS: Mark, per quanto reguarda Giovanni, sonno d’accordo! Universita Di Pisa, Scuola Medica 1971.

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » December 6th, 2005, 8:57 pm

I got kind of excited with John Rupp's post. I just had to second the motion on the T-shirt idea. Out of Rupp's 2500 plus posts, he finally made good cents What comes to thought is the scene in the movie A Beautiful Mind where they show the Princeton falculty executing The Pens. The t-shirt idea is just a humble way of saying, "Hey," without going overboard.

[old] ragiarn · Post by **[old] ragiarn** » December 6th, 2005, 10:39 pm

I want to get back to describe my start of round 2 of WP. I did a Level 1 8x500. I started conservatively with the first 500 m at slightly above the average of my first attempt at the 8x500 Level. Each successive 500m was at a faster pace than the previous 500. The last two (#7, #8) 500 m intervals where successively new PB for me. I improved 1.1 seconds faster than my previous PB which was set at the end of October in my pre-WP rowing. I felt like I could probably have done 1-2 more at an even faster rate. Perhaps with my next try at the 500 m I will have a better feel for the right pace and will be able to keep all 8x500 m intervals roughly the same. For now I am still trying find my correct pace. I have used my known 2k pace as a reference pace, however that was done with very poor technique and therefore the numbers may not be reflective of the pace I should be using. Over the past two weeks I have spent a lot of time working on my stroke technique and feel that my stroke has become more efficient smooth and more powerful. An imortant part of this improvement has been rowing strapless- For the record I did my entire 4x2k Level 2 training strapless. The average pace for the entire series of 8 intervals was a full 4 seconds faster than the average pace which I had achieved the first time I tried the 8x500. My observed maximum Heart rate for rowing is 163- I use a HRM for all my workouts. I know that the Mike does not use HR as a measure and I fully understand and agree with his premises.. However since I have been using a HRM in my training since 1985 I am able to use HR to judge the effectiveness of my workout rather than as a focus of my workout. During this entire set of intervals my HR never exceeded 155. Of the accumulated 14+ minutes required to complete the 8 intervals 60% was spent in what is known as TR zone in the C2 interactive training program. That zone is from about 148-155 for me. The only time I reached my 100% VO2 max using WP was last week at the very end of my last 4x2k level 2 training session. I reached 163 in the last 100 meters. My average spm for the 8x500 was in the 34-36 range. I have found through experience that as long as I keep my HR at between 150-155 (90-93% of my VO2 max) I can continue for a fairly long time. However once I begin to get above 156 it won't be long before I reach a HR of 163 which I can probably sustain for at most another minute before my muscles begin to shut down due lactate accumulation. Both the Level 1 and 2 workouts, in my opinion, are pushing my aerobic capacity to its limits. It is only by pushing my aerobic capacity to its limits will I be able to increase my aerobic capacity. Ralph Giarnella Southington, CT

[old] Morning Wudi · Post by **[old] Morning Wudi** » December 7th, 2005, 1:30 am

I am interested in the physiological basis of the WP. I have read Seiler's pages (some of them have recently been updated too), but the connection between Seiler's pages and the WP aren't particularly clear to me. Seiler's favorite rowing workouts? "In the last two years, I found that a workout consisting of three 20 minute bouts at "friendly race pace" or just above my lactate threshold (my high lactate steady state), was my bread and butter workout in rowing. These sessions were performed once a week, always in the company of other single scullers. The duration keeps the intensity from getting too high. The competition with my partners kept it from getting too low! Other workouts were steady state rows at lower intensity for 60 to 90 minutes, with technical excellence (efficiency) being a primary objective along with aerobic conditioning." Source: <a href='http://home.hia.no/~stephens/interval.htm' target='_blank'>http://home.hia.no/~stephens/interval.htm</a> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ragiarn @ Dec 6 2005, 07:55 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> If anyone is interested I plan to try explain my interpretation of physiological the basis of the WP plan. Ralph Giarnella PS: Mark, per quanto reguarda Giovanni, sonno d’accordo! Universita Di Pisa, Scuola Medica 1971. </td></tr></table>

[old] ragiarn · Post by **[old] ragiarn** » December 7th, 2005, 8:17 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Morning Wudi @ Dec 7 2005, 01:30 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I am interested in the physiological basis of the WP. I have read Seiler's pages (some of them have recently been updated too), but the connection between Seiler's pages and the WP aren't particularly clear to me. Seiler's favorite rowing workouts? "In the last two years, I found that a workout consisting of three 20 minute bouts at "friendly race pace" or just above my lactate threshold (my high lactate steady state), was my bread and butter workout in rowing. These sessions were performed once a week, always in the company of other single scullers. The duration keeps the intensity from getting too high. The competition with my partners kept it from getting too low! Other workouts were steady state rows at lower intensity for 60 to 90 minutes, with technical excellence (efficiency) being a primary objective along with aerobic conditioning." Source: <a href='http://home.hia.no/~stephens/interval.htm' target='_blank'>http://home.hia.no/~stephens/interval.htm</a> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ragiarn @ Dec 6 2005, 07:55 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> If anyone is interested I plan to try explain my interpretation of physiological the basis of the WP plan. Ralph Giarnella PS: Mark, per quanto reguarda Giovanni, sonno d’accordo! Universita Di Pisa, Scuola Medica 1971. </td></tr></table> </td></tr></table> I am happy to read that someone else is interested in the physiology of the WP program. Let me clarify my previous post. First of all I am not pretending to be an expert in exercise physiology much less an expert in the WP program. I have all I can do to try to keep up with my chosen profession. Exercise physiology for me has been a hobby which I indulge in when I have the time or the inclination to study "why" a certain training regimen works or does not work. I am nothing more than an amateur exercise physiologist trying to understand the "why it works" part of the WP plan. I am not pretending to usurp Mike Caviston's explanation of his WP plan. I enjoy each and every one Mike's posts, and I find them to be very thorough and precise as well as very informative. By putting my thinking on paper (electronic paper) it forces me to clarify my thoughts. By posting it in this discussion forum it opens my thinking up to criticism and correction and therefore hopefully we all learn. I am looking forward to Mike's book and I will be the first in line to buy the book and add it to my library. A lot of electronic ink has been expended explaining the "How to do it" part of the WP. I just think that it is also important to understand the "why we do it" part of the program. With regards to the Seiler website. I did not mean to imply that he is any way connected to the WP program nor that he endorses the WP program. I find that he has covered the topic of exercise physiology as it pertains to endurance sports, with emphasis on the rowing, rather thoroughly. He covers every topic from the basic make up of the muscle fibers, adaptations that take place during training, the rationale behind intervals, etc, to specifics of rowing and competing. If you read his topics from the beginning to the end you will find many of the answers to the "why we do it" questions of the WP program. His website does not cover the topics as thoroughly as a text book however, in my opinion, he brings together all the elements in an easily readable format. Ralph Giarnella Southington, CT

[old] ragiarn · Post by **[old] ragiarn** » December 7th, 2005, 8:55 am

Today’s training. Today I attempted a level 4 60’ training session. I did well for the first 45 minutes. I was hitting my pace well, and for the most part getting my spm correct and in sequence for the first 45 minutes. However at about the 45 minute mark I hit the proverbial wall. I just ran out of gas. My form rapidly deteriorated, I had trouble keeping my pace and finally my spm sequences began to go haywire. What happened? I simply have not recovered from my great Level 1 workout from yesterday. Yesterday I did a level 1 8x500 at the upper limits of my aerobic capacity and probably used up most of the glycogen stored in my rowing muscles. My glucose intake in the past 24 hours was not enough to refill my glycogen stores. This is probably most especially true for the type IIa muscle fibers which are thoroughly stressed in a Level 1 training session. So today when I attempted my level 4 training session I was probably starting out with my glycogen storage only about half full. When my type IIa fiber ran out of glycogen all I had left were my type I fibers (purely endurance and fat burning-slow twitch fibers) to work with and towards the end they were probably running out of their limited stores of glycogen. I barely made it to the 60’ mark. I now have a few choices to make before next week. The logical thing to do is to take in more glucose in the 24 hours after a hard level 1 training session. However I am trying to make weight (lightweight) for the crash B and I would rather try to lose the weight now rather than to wait until February. I can shorten my continuous level 4 workout to 45 minutes. I don’t think that is a good idea because it defeats the whole purpose of a continuous workout. I can change the sequence of my training schedule. At present I plan a level one following a rest day so that my glycogen stores are filled and ready for the task at hand. If I put in the level 1 training session anywhere else during the week I will probably be starting at a less than ideal situation and therefore not get maximum intensity in the workout. That defeats the whole purpose of the level 1 workout. I could try doing a 2x40 level 4. I tried that last week and did great for the first 40’ but the second 40 minutes I petered out after about 15 minutes and could not finish the whole 2nd 40’. Same reason as above- not enough glycogen. I could try the 4x10. Or I could back down on my pace and stroke rate. I think I may have advanced my stroke rate too quickly. I am now trying a 180-184 sequence. At the moment I am more inclined to back down my stroke sequence and pace and get a stroke sequence and pace that I can handle for a full 60’ and then build from there. I am just a novice at this rowing thing and I am trying to find my level. My stroke mechanics are slowly improving however that also began to break down after 45 minutes. Looking forward to your comments and ideas. Ralph Giarnella Southington, CT

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » December 7th, 2005, 11:46 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ragiarn @ Dec 6 2005, 08:55 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>PS: Mark, per quanto reguarda Giovanni, sonno d’accordo! Universita Di Pisa, Scuola Medica 1971. </td></tr></table> Bravo Ralph! Lei e americano o italiano? Forse un americano ... ma ha studiato in Italia? (excuse my spelling ... I speak Italian about 99% better than spell!) I am an Italophile, although 100% Russian (Mom & Dad). Just bought a tiny apartment over there in a beach town on the Adriatic (Fano) as a small step toward preparing for retirement. I'm 47 and my wife is 51 -- she's more ready to pack it in than I. She's been working since 16 ... without a break ... except for maternity leave ... even working through university at night. She's tired, and I don't blame her!

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