Ranger - News To Shock

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I really believe that your ability to maintain a regimen such as this requires an equal amount of mental discipline as well as physical expenditure. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sure, it requires discipline. But I like both the work and the challenge, so it isn't at all a burden.<br /><br />The long physical routines, especially when they are rhythmic activities like skipping and stepping, are especially good for learning to relax, both mentally and physically, while working at pretty high levels. And all of these supplementary routines (skipping, stepping, sit ups), at some point, require you to work through various difficulties, find a second wind, etc.<br /><br />As I have mentioned several times, to me, if it is done pretty hard (305 watts?), the long stepping routine is especially good as a kind of slow-motion model for the 2K. The first quarter of the routine is a breeze; you start to feel the burden of the work about half way through; in the third fourth of the routine, you have to reset your mind and body to steady state in order to work through to some vision of the end; and then the end can be very hard work indeed. <br /><br />I often step for 2000 calories, which comes out close to two hours. Watching the calories tick by is a bit like watching the meters tick by in a 2K.<br /><br />In 100 minutes, I stepped for 1900 calories this morning, so I am approching this standard.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The Equating of "Stepper Watts" to "Erg Pace" is very far fetched. </td></tr></table><br /><br />This might be pretty easy to check. Get someone who can really run, like Rick Bayko, and have him step on a LifeFitness stepper at 300 watts for an hour or so and see how it goes; or at least, have him find some comfortable pace that he can keep for an hour and see what it is. Then compare that pace to what he can do on the erg for the same time.<br /><br />Both tasks burn about 2000 calories.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Both tasks burn about 2000 calories. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry, an hour would be 1000 calories. <br /><br />I usually step two hours, 2000 calories.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 13 2005, 12:57 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 13 2005, 12:57 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The Equating of "Stepper Watts" to "Erg Pace" is very far fetched. </td></tr></table><br /><br />This might be pretty easy to check. Get someone who can really run, like Rick Bayko, and have him step on a LifeFitness stepper at 300 watts for an hour or so and see how it goes; or at least, have him find some comfortable pace that he can keep for an hour and see what it is. Then compare that pace to what he can do on the erg for the same time.<br /><br />Both tasks burn about 2000 calories.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'm fine with you doing it, go right ahead, but since you do 2 hours, why stop at 1? Just hop on the old Erg and hold a 1:45 for 2 hours, you should feel quite refreshed by the end if it's comparable to the Stepper.<br /><br />34200m in 120 minutes = 300.081Watts (1:45.26 Avg Pace)<br /><br />Have fun! <br />

[[old] ranger]

Hey, Paul. Check out my force curve. It has been posted on the British site. <br /><br />What do you think?<br /><br /><a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 2&start=90' target='_blank'>here</a><br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->'m fine with you doing it, go right ahead, but since you do 2 hours, why stop at 1? Just hop on the old Erg and hold a 1:45 for 2 hours, you should feel quite refreshed by the end if it's comparable to the Stepper. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Nice goal! I am working on it. <br /><br />My efficiency on the erg is getting better and better, although it not yet anything like my efficiency running.<br /><br />I suspect that those who don't run or haven't run a lot might have similar difficulties going from the erg to the stepper. <br /><br />For instance, why don't you get on a LifeFitness stepper for us and go for an hour or so and see what wattage you can maintain? Then try it on the erg.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />

[[old] NavigationHazard]

Can't resist posting this from the UK site:<br /><br /><img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/ ... ecurve.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><br /><br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 13 2005, 08:50 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 13 2005, 08:50 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->'m fine with you doing it, go right ahead, but since you do 2 hours, why stop at 1? Just hop on the old Erg and hold a 1:45 for 2 hours, you should feel quite refreshed by the end if it's comparable to the Stepper. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Nice goal! I am working on it. <br /><br />My efficiency on the erg is getting better and better, although it not yet anything like my efficiency running.<br /><br />I suspect that those who don't run or haven't run a lot might have similar difficulties going from the erg to the stepper. <br /><br />For instance, why don't you get on a LifeFitness stepper for us and go for an hour or so and see what wattage you can maintain? Then try it on the erg.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />What version of Firmware is on your PM3? It has changed a bit from the beginning as to how the Force curve would be interpretted, but overall it appears that you are doing quite well, especially for the Erg.<br /><br />However, if that is an "easy" stroke for you, you really should do some maximum power strokes and really show some amplitude. <br /><br />I've only been on a LifeStepper a few times, many years ago (~20), and it was a reasonable alternative to the Erg which I had to stay away from at the time. I have no idea what the watts were, they just had "levels" to choose from and workouts with names like "Pikes Peak". One thing was for sure, a slight change in how the support railings were held (or not held) makes a whole lot of difference in the workout.<br /><br />Anyway, this isn't about me, it's about you, and since you are equating the efforts, have no difficulty doing this on the stepper, and have practiced both the Stepper and the Erg for quite some time, you really are the most qualified to rise to my challenge.<br /><br />PS - Please clean off that PM3, the splatter is disgusting.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, if that is an "easy" stroke for you, you really should do some maximum power strokes and really show some amplitude. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Why?<br /><br />I don't need a stroke any stronger than 12.5 SPI--for _any_ purpose, other than to force things so that 12.5 SPI feels easy, which is indeed what I have been doing, rowing a lot at 15 SPI.<br /><br />12.5 SPI is a _very_ big stroke for a 55-year-old lwt. <br /><br />12.5 SPI at 32 spm is a 6:22 2K, almost 20 seconds under the 55-59 lwt WR and almost four seconds under the 50-54 lwt WR.<br /><br />Going along at 1:36 and 32 spm, my force curve looks just like the one I took the pic of going at 1:44 and 25 spm. <br /><br />At 40 spm, 12.5 SPI is 1:28.8 pace, which is as fast as I would need for most sprints.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One thing was for sure, a slight change in how the support railings were held (or not held) makes a whole lot of difference in the workout. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, I think you are right about this. You can push and pull the support railings, if you want. I don't tend to, but I do rest my hands on the railings. I don't step with my hands free.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 13 2005, 10:00 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 13 2005, 10:00 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, if that is an "easy" stroke for you, you really should do some maximum power strokes and really show some amplitude. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Why?<br /><br />I don't need a stroke any stronger than 12.5 SPI--for _any_ purpose, other than to force things so that 12.5 SPI feels easy, which is indeed what I have been doing, rowing a lot at 15 SPI.<br /><br />12.5 SPI is a _very_ big stroke for a 55-year-old lwt. <br /><br />12.5 SPI at 32 spm is a 6:22 2K, almost 20 seconds under the 55-59 lwt WR and almost four seconds under the 50-54 lwt WR.<br /><br />Going along at 1:36 and 32 spm, my force curve looks just like the one I took the pic of going at 1:44 and 25 spm. <br /><br />At 40 spm, 12.5 SPI is 1:28.8 pace, which is as fast as I would need for most sprints.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well... Because. <br /><br />I've already explained why SPI can't be used in the way you are attempting to. While I agree that maintaining SPI while increasing SR is a good thing, the froce profile is going to change when doing that.<br /><br />Regarding the Stepper, I found that extinding my arms and placing my hands on the Rails up and in front made it much more difficult, it's amazing how much weight we can support with our arms down at our sides without even seemingly trying to do so, or being aware that it is happening.<br /><br />Remember, you are the one drawing the equivalencies, I'm just stating that they are not what I interpret you to be saying about them, and offering you a way to confirm or deny my claim through direct experience. i.e. if you can lift 100lb 2x it does not mean that you can lift 200lbs once, though the reverse is an absolute given.<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Dec 13 2005, 08:59 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Dec 13 2005, 08:59 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Can't resist posting this from the UK site:<br /><br /><img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/ ... ecurve.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><br /><br />       <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Funny!

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've already explained why SPI can't be used in the way you are attempting to. While I agree that maintaining SPI while increasing SR is a good thing, the froce profile is going to change when doing that. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Why?<br /><br />In my case, at least, it doesn't. The force profile when I am rowing at 1:36 @ 32 spm looks pretty much like the force profile when I am rowing at 1:44 @ 25 spm. <br /><br />The drive is the same.<br /><br />This is also true at low stroke rates, e.g., 1:56 @ 18 spm.<br /><br />And so it goes, no matter what the rate.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Regarding the Stepper, I found that extinding my arms and placing my hands on the Rails up and in front made it much more difficult, it's amazing how much weight we can support with our arms down at our sides without even seemingly trying to do so, or being aware that it is happening. </td></tr></table><br /><br />True. <br /><br />ranger

[[old] george nz]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 11 2005, 10:44 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 11 2005, 10:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It is 10 weeks or so until the CRASH-Bs.<br /><br />ranger </td></tr></table><br /><br />When will you be starting your home testing, given that this will be pretty new for you with your new stroke<br /><br /><br /><br />ranger - 8/25/2002<br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->..... I need to suck it up and get over this avoidaance of at home 2K trials. As a lightweight, I need to practice doing 2K trials under standard race conditions..... </td></tr></table><br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I do indeed need to get my weight to a stable 160 rather than a fluctuating 165 so that all of my training rows are practiced at weight. I'll keep working on this ... </td></tr></table>