Wolverine Plan Discussion

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 4th, 2005, 8:59 pm

Mark,<br /><br />I'll get to your questions, just be patient.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 4th, 2005, 9:00 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 4 2005, 04:57 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Would it be safe to say that ... resetting reference pace would be good to do? If so, how would you suggest one go about this?<br /><br />Regards -- Mark[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />You take one pace, and replace it with another one. <br />

[old] Polaco · Post by **[old] Polaco** » December 5th, 2005, 4:38 am

Mike:<br /><br />Thanks for your explanations, I will try to adjust my paces to my new 2k times and see what happens, it's going to be hard but this is the point, isn't it?<br /><br />Anyway I tended to row at faster paces for a given spm than the stated at the charts and for me that was a clear indication that I had the potential to improve my 2k as I have recently done.<br /><br />Apart of this I want to thank you very much for your advice to all the people at the forum, I'm not new in rowing, and last season I trained fairly hard, actually I'm Spanish Champion in 8+ ( Vet Category ) but the improvement I've had during the last four months following the WP has been very good for me. Thank you very much Mike, I will follow the plan in the future, it's hard but it pays. I want to go to the Fisa Masters World Championship at Princetown next September and I'll be prepared!!! (I will have lots of money in my account to pay for a medal as you like to say)<br /><br />Cheers!!

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 5th, 2005, 11:55 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 4 2005, 05:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You take one pace, and replace it with another one. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Polaco @ Dec 5 2005, 12:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Thanks for your explanations, I will try to adjust my paces to my new 2k times and see what happens, it's going to be hard but this is the point, isn't it?<br /><br />Apart of this I want to thank you very much for your advice to all the people at the forum[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />You are quite welcome, Polaco! <br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 5th, 2005, 12:05 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Polaco @ Dec 5 2005, 12:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I will have lots of money in my account to pay for a medal as you like to say<br /><br />Cheers!![right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Keep saving, and I will send you a tshirt! <br />

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » December 5th, 2005, 12:27 pm

John:<br /><br />Dwayne was kind enough to establish, just for you, your own thread. Please go use it.<br /><br />-- Mark

[old] ragiarn · Post by **[old] ragiarn** » December 5th, 2005, 1:47 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 4 2005, 08:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Delilah @ Nov 29 2005, 02:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Does restricted rate work improve endurance faster than a similar volume of unrestricted work?<br />D.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 29 2005, 11:30 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Unrestricted rate rowing develops your endurance more quickly and more thoroughly. </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Delilah @ Nov 30 2005, 12:55 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>On what evidence do you base this rather bold assertion?[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />With an unrestricted rating, you row faster, and faster for longer, thus developing more quickly and thoroughly, reaching stages of fitness that you would never reach with low ratings. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />

[old] ragiarn · Post by **[old] ragiarn** » December 5th, 2005, 1:48 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ragiarn @ Dec 5 2005, 01:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 4 2005, 08:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Delilah @ Nov 29 2005, 02:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Does restricted rate work improve endurance faster than a similar volume of unrestricted work?<br />D.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 29 2005, 11:30 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Unrestricted rate rowing develops your endurance more quickly and more thoroughly. </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Delilah @ Nov 30 2005, 12:55 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>On what evidence do you base this rather bold assertion?[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />With an unrestricted rating, you row faster, and faster for longer, thus developing more quickly and thoroughly, reaching stages of fitness that you would never reach with low ratings. <br /> </td></tr></table> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />On what evidence do you base your affirmations? If you want anecdoctal evidence to the contrary, I can cite my recent experience. Prior to embarking on the WP program I routinely trained at unrestricted rates in the range of 28-40. My personal best last year was accomplished at a spm in the 40+spm range. I started training again seriously in August with the same unrestricted pace and after 1 million meters improved my PB 2k (6 weeks ago - at 36-40 spm) by less than 0.5 sec. <br /><br />Since starting the WP less than 3 weeks ago, (with another 250k under my belt), and following as best I can the guidelines of the WP, especially the restricted pacing of L4 I broke my PB (without trying during a 4x2k L2) by 0.6 at avg spm of 28. <br /> <br />My personal take on this is that before I was going nowhere fast but now I am quickly improving by going "slower". There is an old Italian saying " Piano, piano, si va lontano!- (slowly, slowly you go a long distance).<br /><br />Ralph Giarnella<br /><br />PS: Sorry I think I accidently posted the above quotes before putting in my 2 cents worth. I am still trying to get used to the format.<br /><br />Ralph Giarnella

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » December 5th, 2005, 2:36 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ragiarn @ Dec 5 2005, 01:48 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ragiarn @ Dec 5 2005, 01:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 4 2005, 08:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Delilah @ Nov 29 2005, 02:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Does restricted rate work improve endurance faster than a similar volume of unrestricted work?<br />D.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 29 2005, 11:30 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Unrestricted rate rowing develops your endurance more quickly and more thoroughly. </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Delilah @ Nov 30 2005, 12:55 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>On what evidence do you base this rather bold assertion?[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />With an unrestricted rating, you row faster, and faster for longer, thus developing more quickly and thoroughly, reaching stages of fitness that you would never reach with low ratings. <br /> </td></tr></table> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />On what evidence do you base your affirmations? If you want anecdoctal evidence to the contrary, I can cite my recent experience. Prior to embarking on the WP program I routinely trained at unrestricted rates in the range of 28-40. My personal best last year was accomplished at a spm in the 40+spm range. I started training again seriously in August with the same unrestricted pace and after 1 million meters improved my PB 2k (6 weeks ago - at 36-40 spm) by less than 0.5 sec. <br /><br />Since starting the WP less than 3 weeks ago, (with another 250k under my belt), and following as best I can the guidelines of the WP, especially the restricted pacing of L4 I broke my PB (without trying during a 4x2k L2) by 0.6 at avg spm of 28. <br /> <br />My personal take on this is that before I was going nowhere fast but now I am quickly improving by going "slower". There is an old Italian saying " Piano, piano, si va lontano!- (slowly, slowly you go a long distance).<br /><br />Ralph Giarnella<br /><br />PS: Sorry I think I accidently posted the above quotes before putting in my 2 cents worth. I am still trying to get used to the format.<br /><br />Ralph Giarnella <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Gentile Ralph:<br /><br />Va benne ...<br /><br />Io penso che John Rupp è pazzo (o matto).<br /><br />La testa di John Rupp è molto, molto dura!<br /><br />:-)<br /><br />Ciao ... Mark<br /><br /><br />

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » December 5th, 2005, 2:38 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ragiarn @ Dec 5 2005, 01:48 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ragiarn @ Dec 5 2005, 01:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 4 2005, 08:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Delilah @ Nov 29 2005, 02:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Does restricted rate work improve endurance faster than a similar volume of unrestricted work?<br />D.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 29 2005, 11:30 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Unrestricted rate rowing develops your endurance more quickly and more thoroughly. </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Delilah @ Nov 30 2005, 12:55 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>On what evidence do you base this rather bold assertion?[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />With an unrestricted rating, you row faster, and faster for longer, thus developing more quickly and thoroughly, reaching stages of fitness that you would never reach with low ratings. <br /> </td></tr></table> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />On what evidence do you base your affirmations? If you want anecdoctal evidence to the contrary, I can cite my recent experience. Prior to embarking on the WP program I routinely trained at unrestricted rates in the range of 28-40. My personal best last year was accomplished at a spm in the 40+spm range. I started training again seriously in August with the same unrestricted pace and after 1 million meters improved my PB 2k (6 weeks ago - at 36-40 spm) by less than 0.5 sec. <br /><br />Since starting the WP less than 3 weeks ago, (with another 250k under my belt), and following as best I can the guidelines of the WP, especially the restricted pacing of L4 I broke my PB (without trying during a 4x2k L2) by 0.6 at avg spm of 28. <br /> <br />My personal take on this is that before I was going nowhere fast but now I am quickly improving by going "slower". There is an old Italian saying " Piano, piano, si va lontano!- (slowly, slowly you go a long distance).<br /><br />Ralph Giarnella<br /><br />PS: Sorry I think I accidently posted the above quotes before putting in my 2 cents worth. I am still trying to get used to the format.<br /><br />Ralph Giarnella <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ralph:<br /><br />I have had exactly the same experience, as, I believe, has Bill Moore.<br /><br />Regards -- Mark<br /><br />PS - Do you speak Italian?<br />

[old] Polaco · Post by **[old] Polaco** » December 5th, 2005, 5:05 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 5 2005, 01:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />I have had exactly the same experience, as, I believe, has Bill Moore.<br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes and, as I explained earlier,similar experience for me whilst other purslane eaters need Patt nonsenses to justify theirselves..... <br /><br />El poder de Cristo te obliga!!!! Abandona este forum satanás!!!

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » December 5th, 2005, 5:44 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 4 2005, 08:57 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Would it be safe to say that if one could do 70' to 90' at the top (or bottom depending how you view it) of the sequence charts (longest distances), that resetting reference pace would be good to do? If so, how would you suggest one go about this? <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hmm, let me think about this. 70’-90’ is probably a little more than most people could or should do continuously with the Level 4 format. Let’s use 60’ for the sake of discussion. I would say if someone progressed to 1200 strokes in 60’ (6 x 200 or the equivalent, i.e., an average of 20spm) it would be time to try a new Ref Pace. I think 1208 strokes are the most I’ve ever done in 60’, and that was almost five years ago. At my current pace I’ll probably make it to about 1190 strokes this year. If someone has reached 1200 strokes mid-season, they clearly have chosen the wrong Ref Pace – but what are you gonna do? I’d try to finish out the current season as well as possible and choose a Ref Pace more accurately next year. So, let’s say someone has reached 1200 strokes with a particular Ref Pace but there are till several weeks to go in the season. Two alternatives would be to 1) continue with the same Ref Pace and progress to faster sequences (the 202-210 range) or 2) go to the next fastest Ref Pace and go back to using slower sequences. Nether solution is perfect but I’d go with #2 (faster Ref Pace, back to slower sequences). How far back to go (which slower sequences to use)? Well, you’d cover about the same number of meters in 1170 strokes (19.5spm average) using the next fastest Ref Pace (vs. 1200 strokes with the slower Ref Pace). But to account for the greater intensity of more force per stroke, I’d probably drop back a little further, probably to about 19-19.2spm for 60’ with the faster Ref Pace. You'd be covering fewer meters than before but working harder to do it. It would also probably be necessary to set aside a few sessions just to practice with the new paces for the various stroke rates (i.e., get used to consistently hitting the faster paces for the various rates).<br /><br />Well, that’s what I’d do, but what the heck do I know? Oh, and to reiterate one other key point about the Level 4 sequences. The faster ones at the bottom of the table are almost theoretical ideals. If you have chosen your Ref Pace correctly, you won’t be able to do them in continuous formats. When I am fully trained, I can barely do the 220 sequence as an isolated 10’ piece (which I try to reach as part of the 4 x 10’ format).<br /><br />Mike Caviston<br />

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » December 5th, 2005, 7:07 pm

Beautiful Mike. <br /><br />Your response makes perfect sense, and gives a somewhat empirical way to calculate where to go on the charts to structure a new workout if the reference pace one used was too slow (or improvement came at such a fast pace) that one "blew off" the chart. Those of us just starting the WP and also (really) just starting to row (like 6 months ago) *may* run into this before the season ends.<br /><br />Thanks!

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 5th, 2005, 7:34 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 4 2005, 04:57 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Would it be safe to say that ... resetting reference pace would be good to do? If so, how would you suggest one go about this?<br /><br />Regards -- Mark[right] </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 4 2005, 05:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You take one pace, and replace it with another one. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 5 2005, 03:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Your response makes perfect sense ... Thanks![right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />You're welcome! <br />

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » December 6th, 2005, 2:06 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 5 2005, 08:05 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Polaco @ Dec 5 2005, 12:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I will have lots of money in my account to pay for a medal as you like to say<br /><br />Cheers!![right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Keep saving, and I will send you a tshirt! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I actually did that in the spring of 2003. I was so impressed with the results of the Wolverine Plan, I sent Mike Caviston a sweat shirt from my college alamater in an effort to show my appreciation. <br /><br />John, I think that is an excellent idea. I would also suggest for anyone to send Mike Caviston a t-shirt of your college or high school alamater to show your own appreciaton for the Wolverine Plan. <br /><br />

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