Wolverine Plan Discussion

[[old] H_2O]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mike Caviston+Dec 1 2005, 05:26 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Dec 1 2005, 05:26 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>The Myth of Lactate Tolerance...</b> <br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks.<br />

[[old] TomR/the elder]

Mike--<br /><br />All those facts in a single post. Is that allowed?<br /><br />Tom

[[old] Dickie]

Tom<br /><br />If the number of facts bothers you too much, you can always even things out by re-reading posts from John Rupp.

[[old] Polaco]

<b>Changing paces after a new PB</b><br /><br />Right now, my Level 4 sessions for 60 min. are 178-180-184-184-180-178 and it's quite tough for me.... <br /><br />Last Saturday during an e-row race I've made a quite significant improvement over my 2k going from 6:43.5 to 6:34.4. Yes, I'm very happy but....... do I have to change automatically my paces and change from 16spm @2:06 to 16spm @2:02???? I'ts going to be really hard...... Have any of you found yourself in this situation??<br /><br />Any advice will be very wellcome<br /><br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Polaco+Dec 4 2005, 06:44 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Polaco @ Dec 4 2005, 06:44 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Changing paces after a new PB</b><br /><br />Right now, my Level 4 sessions for 60 min. are  178-180-184-184-180-178 and it's quite tough for me.... <br /><br />Last Saturday during an e-row race I've made a quite significant improvement over my 2k going from 6:43.5 to 6:34.4. Yes, I'm very happy but....... do I have to change automatically my paces and change from 16spm @2:06 to 16spm @2:02????  I'ts going to be really hard...... Have any of you found yourself in this situation??<br /><br />Any advice will be very wellcome <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I've read through the WP a few times, so this is based only on what I recall, you would stay with the same 2k reference pace for a given season and then when that season is over and you have (hopefully) produced a new 2k PB, you would use that as the reference pace when beginning your training for the next season. Yes, it will be "hard", was there something about "progress being easy" in the WP?

[[old] Polaco]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 4 2005, 10:19 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 4 2005, 10:19 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, it will be "hard", was there something about "progress being easy" in the WP?  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Certainly not , thanks for the advice!!

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-Polaco+Dec 4 2005, 10:44 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Polaco @ Dec 4 2005, 10:44 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Changing paces after a new PB</b><br /><br />Right now, my Level 4 sessions for 60 min. are  178-180-184-184-180-178 and it's quite tough for me.... <br /><br />Last Saturday during an e-row race I've made a quite significant improvement over my 2k going from 6:43.5 to 6:34.4. Yes, I'm very happy but....... do I have to change automatically my paces and change from 16spm @2:06 to 16spm @2:02????  I'ts going to be really hard...... Have any of you found yourself in this situation??<br /><br />Any advice will be very wellcome <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />From the WP:<br /><br />"As with all the workouts in the Plan, its okay to exceed your goals if it comes naturally, but don’t feel obligated to force the pace beyond the goal. Baby steps, baby steps. If this is your first year on varsity and you are following the Plan for the first time, your rate of improvement will probably be greater than that of a senior. <b><span style='color:blue'>If you reach a point where your totals are exceeding the goal of the next 2K pace on the Pace Chart, you will be reassigned a new 2K pace for reference. Otherwise, you will probably keep the same 2K reference pace you use at the start of the season, even if your actual 2K PR improves (as it will!) during winter testing. </span></b>But this will depend on the circumstances of the individual."<br /><br />

[[old] Polaco]

Thanks Mark, you are beginning to be an authority in WP

[[old] dougsurf]

<!--QuoteBegin-Polaco+Dec 4 2005, 07:44 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Polaco @ Dec 4 2005, 07:44 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Changing paces after a new PB</b><br /><br />Right now, my Level 4 sessions for 60 min. are  178-180-184-184-180-178 and it's quite tough for me.... <br /><br />Last Saturday during an e-row race I've made a quite significant improvement over my 2k going from 6:43.5 to 6:34.4. Yes, I'm very happy but....... do I have to change automatically my paces and change from 16spm @2:06 to 16spm @2:02????  I'ts going to be really hard...... Have any of you found yourself in this situation??<br /><br />Any advice will be very wellcome <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Polaco,<br /><br />From the PaceVsRate table, 2:02 would apply to you if your 2K were a solid 6:32. It may sound like nitpicking to some, but I would hit that mark first before graduating other levels beyond it, and meanwhile feel more than adequate graduating to "only" 2:04 on the Level 4 16spm. <br /><br />I'm new at Wolverine, but I don't think the core principle of gradual progression means that you fix paces across the board only once per year. I like its toning down of the whole periodization theory in favor of steady ongoing growth. Something like 0.1 split seconds per week on average, if I recall correctly. Between now and my next competition, I will not be doing any trials, but will regard my 4x1Ks as my 2K trials, and adjust everything across the board to line up with them, whenever they improve. Anything sound wrong with that, to anyone?<br />

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-dougsurf+Dec 4 2005, 07:08 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Dec 4 2005, 07:08 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Polaco+Dec 4 2005, 07:44 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Polaco @ Dec 4 2005, 07:44 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Changing paces after a new PB</b><br /><br />Right now, my Level 4 sessions for 60 min. are  178-180-184-184-180-178 and it's quite tough for me.... <br /><br />Last Saturday during an e-row race I've made a quite significant improvement over my 2k going from 6:43.5 to 6:34.4. Yes, I'm very happy but....... do I have to change automatically my paces and change from 16spm @2:06 to 16spm @2:02????   I'ts going to be really hard...... Have any of you found yourself in this situation??<br /><br />Any advice will be very wellcome <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Polaco,<br /><br />From the PaceVsRate table, 2:02 would apply to you if your 2K were a solid 6:32. It may sound like nitpicking to some, but I would hit that mark first before graduating other levels beyond it, and meanwhile feel more than adequate graduating to "only" 2:04 on the Level 4 16spm. <br /><br />I'm new at Wolverine, but I don't think the core principle of gradual progression means that you fix paces across the board only once per year. I like its toning down of the whole periodization theory in favor of steady ongoing growth. Something like 0.1 split seconds per week on average, if I recall correctly. Between now and my next competition, I will not be doing any trials, but will regard my 4x1Ks as my 2K trials, and adjust everything across the board to line up with them, whenever they improve. Anything sound wrong with that, to anyone? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Doug:<br /><br />I'm certainly not an expert on the plan, but here's another perspective:<br /><br />I *think* Mike would say that if you wanted to move up your reference pace during the season for reasons mentioned above, you'd likely go back "down" the table in terms of the sequences, to get actual work performed during an L4 workout (for the current level of fitness & performance) in line with all of the new paces (faster pace + less distance = similar work). Otherwise, too much of an increase in performance at one time which is contrary to slow, solid progression ("baby steps, baby steps"). <br /><br />The only thing I don't understand is when Mike says: <br /><br />"If you reach a point where your totals are exceeding the goal of the next 2K pace on the Pace Chart, you will be reassigned a new 2K pace for reference."<br /><br />I'm not sure how this could happen, unless you did not stick to the rates and paces for the plan but rather "pushed" them.<br /><br />Unless one is "off the chart" (no more sequences to add to add more meters for a workout), I believe Mike would say keep the same reference pace and keep going.<br /><br />Regards -- Mark

[[old] Mike Caviston]

Remember that the WP was originally designed for people with an established 2K history. That means people who have already undergone some period of structured training and have on record a 2K score that represents their best effort to date. These people should begin a season of WP training with a Level 4 Ref Pace based on the best 2K from the previous training cycle, and I also have ballpark starting recommendations for the other (L1-L3) training levels. For true novices (those without a training history based on 2K performance), figuring out exactly where to begin and how quickly to proceed is a little trickier, as I have discussed previously. I think beginners are definitely better off beginning their training with some sort of structured format (as opposed to randomly jumping from one workout to the next without any thought of cause and effect or planning for the future). Perhaps for some beginners the Wolverine Plan requires too much structure; that will be for each individual to decide. I think a beginner’s initial focus with the WP should be to learn the formats, master the basic skills required (i.e., consistent stroke rates and paces; negative splitting; etc.), and establish a baseline from which to proceed towards more serious and goal-oriented training in the future. And of course, gradually improve fitness. I can never stress enough that the WP is designed to provide slow steady improvement for a long time. It is definitely <b>not</b> a “get fast overnight – instant result or your money back!” type of training plan. Also remember that beginners don’t necessarily need the WP to improve their erg scores; just sitting down on that sucker a few times a week is enough to get the job done. You’ll pretty much get faster in spite of yourself. But once the honeymoon is over, and your times stop improving even though it seems like you’re sweating and puffing even more than ever – then you will appreciate the structure of a well-balanced training plan.<br /><br />To repeat a piece of advice I’ve given to beginners before: don’t become too obsessed with rapid improvement and with getting it all right now. Take the long view. Just enjoy the ride for a while and develop good habits to use when the going starts to get a little tougher. Specifically for Level 4 workouts, if you can follow your current Ref Pace without hitting the 20spm-average before the end of the season, then just stick with what you’ve been doing. Next year plan to start with a faster Ref Pace based on your best 2K this year, and spend some time in the off-season getting comfortable with doing some sequences using the faster Ref Pace so you can begin your next competitive training period as smoothly as possible.<br /><br />And one other point for people following a certain rate of progression over the course of a season. There should be a certain amount of proportion between intensities for the different levels (L1-L4). But the proportions won’t always be exact, and sometimes the paces for one Level will be a little out of phase with the others. I always have a final pace in mind for the end of the season (i.e., the paces I want to achieve for each Level within 1-2 weeks of CRASH-Bs). If I get ahead in one area I ease up a bit (currently my strategy regarding Level 4), and if I’ve fallen behind in one area for whatever reason I map out a rate of improvement that is a little more aggressive just for that Level (currently my strategy for Level 2). But don’t over think the relationship between Levels. In the short term I treat each Level (and each workout) independently and just work on gradually improving my paces for each Level from one week to the next.<br /><br />Let me know if I’m making myself clearer or just more confusing. Happy training.<br /><br />Mike Caviston<br />

[[old] Mike Caviston]

<!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Dec 4 2005, 07:46 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 4 2005, 07:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only thing I don't understand is when Mike says: <br />"If you reach a point where your totals are exceeding the goal of the next 2K pace on the Pace Chart, you will be reassigned a new 2K pace for reference."<br /> </td></tr></table><br />This was in reference to the specific situation where a rower moves from the novice to the varsity level and really begins to bloom as an athlete as a result of maturity, greater training volume, the inspiration of training with older/more experienced teammates, forming more ambitious personal goals, etc. – they were improving so rapidly they would rack up large totals even while trying to hold back. Giving them a new Ref Pace didn’t really change the way they did the workouts, it just brought their goals more in line with their abilities. As I’ve said again and again and again – setting Ref Paces for beginners is not an exact science.<br /><br />Mike Caviston<br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-Delilah+Nov 29 2005, 02:05 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Delilah @ Nov 29 2005, 02:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Does restricted rate work improve endurance faster than a similar volume of unrestricted work?<br />D.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Nov 29 2005, 11:30 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 29 2005, 11:30 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Unrestricted rate rowing develops your endurance more quickly and more thoroughly. </td></tr></table><br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-Delilah+Nov 30 2005, 12:55 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Delilah @ Nov 30 2005, 12:55 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On what evidence do you base this rather bold assertion?[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />With an unrestricted rating, you row faster, and faster for longer, thus developing more quickly and thoroughly, reaching stages of fitness that you would never reach with low ratings.

[[old] mpukita]

Coach Rupp:<br /><br />Please go back to your own thread.<br /><br />-- Mark

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mike Caviston+Dec 4 2005, 08:06 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Dec 4 2005, 08:06 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Dec 4 2005, 07:46 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 4 2005, 07:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only thing I don't understand is when Mike says: <br />"If you reach a point where your totals are exceeding the goal of the next 2K pace on the Pace Chart, you will be reassigned a new 2K pace for reference."<br /> </td></tr></table><br />This was in reference to the specific situation where a rower moves from the novice to the varsity level and really begins to bloom as an athlete as a result of maturity, greater training volume, the inspiration of training with older/more experienced teammates, forming more ambitious personal goals, etc. – they were improving so rapidly they would rack up large totals even while trying to hold back. Giving them a new Ref Pace didn’t really change the way they did the workouts, it just brought their goals more in line with their abilities. As I’ve said again and again and again – setting Ref Paces for beginners is not an exact science.<br /><br />Mike Caviston <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Mike:<br /><br />Thanks.<br /><br />Would it be safe to say that if one could do 70' to 90' at the top (or bottom depending how you view it) of the sequence charts (longest distances), that resetting reference pace would be good to do? If so, how would you suggest one go about this?<br /><br />Regards -- Mark<br />