Strengths Or Weakness

[old] cjh · Post by **[old] cjh** » March 4th, 2006, 6:36 pm

Tom- Gave a whole new meaning to "fly and die" when I posted that.

Chris

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » March 5th, 2006, 12:42 pm

Chris-- Looking at the stroke rates for the pieces you posted, they seem fine for a workout, but low for a test. Have you done a 60-minute piece at 23-25 SPM? Do you get your rate up to 30 for the 2k? Tom

[old] cjh · Post by **[old] cjh** » March 5th, 2006, 1:05 pm

Weakness Training Week 1- Improve 2k time through longer rows and improve cardiovascular fitness. Did the most meters ever this week. 48,590 was the total. Next week I want to stay closer to 40k as I'm sure all meters were not in the best of form. Any comments about quantity v. quality appreciated or any other suggestions as well. Thinking about a 10 week plan and reassess from there. Thoughts?

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » March 5th, 2006, 3:55 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(cjh @ Mar 6 2006, 06:05 AM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Weakness Training Week 1- Improve 2k time through longer rows and improve cardiovascular fitness. Did the most meters ever this week. 48,590 was the total. Next week I want to stay closer to 40k as I'm sure all meters were not in the best of form. Any comments about quantity v. quality appreciated or any other suggestions as well. Thinking about a 10 week plan and reassess from there. Thoughts?

</td></tr></table> Chris the question over quantity and quality is a good one. In terms of technique, stroking with poor technique is 2 steps backwards and 1 step backwards - there is no benefit. BUT in terms of pace there would be some interesting discussion take place but for most of us any rowing at about 60% HRR (which many would consider to slow) would be beneficial as long as it was continuous, with good form, and of a reasonable duration. For someone starting from a 'low base' in terms of fitness I would say that anything above 50% HRR is beneficial, it is all relative. Aerobic fitness development does not require 'heavy breathing' workouts just extended ones. Drop me a PM with your email address and I will send you some articles to have a look at that might explain it better than I ever could. George

[old] FrankJ · Post by **[old] FrankJ** » March 5th, 2006, 5:05 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(cjh @ Mar 5 2006, 05:05 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Weakness Training Week 1- Improve 2k time through longer rows and improve cardiovascular fitness. Did the most meters ever this week. 48,590 was the total. Next week I want to stay closer to 40k as I'm sure all meters were not in the best of form. Any comments about quantity v. quality appreciated or any other suggestions as well. Thinking about a 10 week plan and reassess from there. Thoughts?

</td></tr></table> Chris, I had whooping cough a couple of years ago. It was really hard to train as whenever my HR went over about 115 I would start to cough. This condition lasted for a couple of months so I made the best of it. My training consisted of rowing as fast as I could without letting my HR go over 115. It was a game of trying little things to improve stroke efficiency. Once I recovered and was able to do longer rows the improved technique really paid off with many new PBs. Rowing slow helps as long as you do it with good technique. Frank

[old] cjh · Post by **[old] cjh** » March 6th, 2006, 9:17 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ Mar 5 2006, 11:42 AM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Chris-- Looking at the stroke rates for the pieces you posted, they seem fine for a workout, but low for a test. Have you done a 60-minute piece at 23-25 SPM? Do you get your rate up to 30 for the 2k? Tom </td></tr></table> Tom- I have not done a 60 minute@23-25 spm. The time I posted earlier was @ 17spm so I could keep my HR below 140bpm, if I picked up the pace to say 20spm during the test I would move out of the my aerobic training bpm. This was a session to see my numbers for a 1hr row and could I create a sustainable training plan that consisted of longer rows. My last 2k was in 2004. 7:32.7 @ 26spm.

Comments and corrections appreciated. Chris George I will pm.

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » March 6th, 2006, 10:01 am

Chris-- For purposes of comparison. My 2k (done just over a week ago) is 7.29. This week I did an "aerobic" 60 min piece at 2.15.7. 21 SPM. Max HR 135. This year my fastest 60 min piece so far was 2.05.5. Max HR 170+. 23-24 SPM. Both the training piece and the test are more than 6 sec/500 faster than I could do when I started the training season late last spring. I do a fair amount of moderately paced rowing--fewer than 15% of my annual meters are at AT pace or faster. The most important thing is to find an approach you are comfortable w/.

[old] cjh · Post by **[old] cjh** » March 6th, 2006, 11:26 am

Tom- Nice improvement! Care to share any particulars of your training plan? Chris

[old] TabbRows · Post by **[old] TabbRows** » March 6th, 2006, 1:45 pm

I agree with the need for a goal or goals before setting out on any fitness program. The reason I erg is to help improve my strength and technique on the water. I do have an interest in reducing my 2K times and keeping my other times reasonably in the middle of the pack for my age group. However, even with a "B" model at home now, sitting on an erg for an hour plus straight isn't something I'm drooling at the mouth to do every day ( once a week is plenty--and some of us have a life beyond the slide

). So I've adapted the WP workouts to fit into shorter 40-45 minute times. And I've use the random workouts on the C2 sight to fill in for those days when even 45 minutes is too long or if I'm at the gym, would conflict with other activites-like pilates for core flexibility. I like this forum for the average Joe/Joan because while I can glean a lot from the experienced Crash B -marathon rowers, their level of ability is so far above mine it's like when I was running and would try to follow Bill Rogers' training regime. It just didn't fit. Keep up the posts. 8)

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » March 6th, 2006, 8:08 pm

Chris-- My improvement is largely illusory. My training dropped off for a bit, so I was coming back after a notable decline in my times. That said, I'll offer a couple of thoughts about how I approach the erg. First, my goal is to peak for the CrashBs and row a 2k. My training is geared toward that. There is no good reason to row a 2k race, but I nonetheless do. Second, I follow the principles of the Wolverine Plan (also of Peter Coe, father of Seb Coe, the middle distance runner). By that I mean I row all paces (train all energy systems) year-round, as opposed to "building a base" for the greater part of the year, then doing race prep. (One reason I do faster work all year is that somewhere I read Fritz Hagerman, physiologist for US Rowing, say that we begin to lose substantial strength as we get older if we don't work to maintain it. To combat that loss, Hagerman said he does short, fast intervals every week. At least this is my recollection.) I try to row 6 says a week. Three or four workouts are long--60 min or more and moderately paced. One workout is either a 60 min or a 10k at a faster pace, and one workout is either a brisk 5k or 6k or some race-pace intervals. To keep things mildly interesting, I try to make each piece faster than the previous time I rowed it. This year I started out way down in the rankings and crawled up a little ever so slowly. The progress provided small and fleeting satisfaction and some motivation. Eventually I reached a point where setting a new season's best for a piece was daunting. So I began doing intervals. Psychologically, it was just easier to break the work into segments. Generally speaking my approach worked. It's basically a lazy-man's version of the Wolverine Plan. There's no counting level 4 workouts, and little pulling at level 4 paces, which I find v. demanding. You do a mix of pieces and start out at comfortable paces and increase them gradually. If hour-long sessions are too much, do shorter sessions. Sounds like TabbRows may do something along these lines. For excitement, you can always throw in a hard session to rank, just to see where you stand relative to others. When you start looking forward to these, you know it's time to get a new life. Tom

[old] cjh · Post by **[old] cjh** » March 7th, 2006, 6:16 pm

Tom- I'll take illusory improvement like yours.

After reading all the great information provided here I think my plan will be something like this. Weekly for 10 weeks 2 - 1 hr rows w/ 140max bpm 1 - Interval session similar to WPL4 1 - 30'@20-22spm AT This gives me around 40k per week. Includes 1 hour rows that are my perceived weakness and I think my numbers prove me right. Seems to have variety. I think I can maintain this when my work schedule changes in 5 weeks. Has the right amount of rest days. I have work outs like these for comparison. Serious radio is playing, "I Got The World On A String" by Frank Sinatra. I need to get a life because I see an erg at the end of the string.....or chain.

Anybody? Chris

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » March 8th, 2006, 1:04 pm

Chris-- Two quick observations: 1) I'm not sure I understand how the L4 intervals fit in the plan. Although no expert on the WP, I thought L4 work was typically continuous and designed to build endurance. 2) The stroke rate for the AT work (20-22) looks low to me. Different people mean different things by AT, but I usually think of AT work being 23-24 SPM and higher. Tom