Training Program For Long Beach Sprints And Crashb

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » January 8th, 2006, 7:27 pm

My interpretation of Xeno's plan is that 4 times 1K at true 2K race pace is too much. The 3 times 7 mins are hard but not as hard because of the stroke rate restriction. These won't kill you. When speedwork gets me into trouble (rowing falls apart) I increase the volume of steady state work but keep it at a pleasant pace and break it up as Xeno suggested. For example in my case: 3 times 20 mins at 1:50, spm 22 with 3 minute breaks in between is a pleasant workout. Scrap the breaks and heart rate will drift very high and it won't be a workout that compensates speedwork any more. Of all the plans I have seen I like Xeno's best. But note that it is a plan for race preparation (the last 6-8 weeks before a race). The Wolverine plan is year round but I don' think I can handle it. My plan for the off season is to do lots of steady state rowing as above, once a week 20 mins at 10K pace and once a week two times 1K at 2K race pace to maintain speed.

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » January 8th, 2006, 9:44 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Jan 8 2006, 03:09 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Xeno @ Jan 7 2006, 09:46 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Jan 5 2006, 12:44 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Xeno @ Dec 30 2005, 05:22 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Training Program 2K sprint CRASH B LONG BEACH, CRASH B BOSTON on Feb 4th & 25th (XENO MULLER) </td></tr></table> Hi Xeno, A big thanks for the plan, and a few questions, if you will (or anyone else obviously). - I don't see any boldface dates that you mentioned for the workouts you would prioritize (for lower mileage people). - Are the steady states always the priority, like you mention for those feeling tired? - I have always heard that with a short time left to race day, that lower mileage and higher intensity was the proper strategy. Agree? - I have a particular problem, which has happened for a couple years now. I increase intensity and volume a few months ahead of race day (but I'm in good shape anyway from year round competitive rowing), and at paces not exceeding prior record pace, once or twice per week, with lots of other steady state. But after just two or three weeks, my performance craters. Obviously I'm overdoing it in some sense, but it seems too fast of a burnout to fit textbook "overtraining". So now I've cut and cut goal paces and taken lots of time off, but have also shot a whole month getting to a marginal position. Does this happen to anyone else? What's the best tip for recovery and race survival? My choices seem to be only to either overtrain or detrain, neither of which are the desired plan. Thanks, Doug </td></tr></table> Hi Doug Let me go back and work on the bold print. I pasted a word doc and it did not carry over. Steady state is crucial for either developing the aerobic capacity, OR compensating for a hard workout. Some national teams end up fizzling out by the world championship. Not necessarily because of overtraining, but by undertraining their aerobic capacity. Now reflecting back, opposition dropped off in stages. Those with lack of technique would drop after five hundred meters, using too much power to keep up. At a thousand meters it became a lack of aerobic conditiong (combinationof power to weight ratio). At 1500 meters it was the separation of the top people and the finalists, still a cause of who had lower lactic accumulation. In the final 250 it came down to whom had more left until the lacatate max levels. There is a bunch of psychological hurdles to deal with too, but that we can talk about some time in the future. Less volume more intensity in order to prepare for a final championship is right. At the Olympic level you still train around 2 to 2.5 hours per day in the final stages. I truely lucked out in 2000 by walking away with a medal. All week long I had cold symptoms. My heart rate would not cool down after the semi, two days before the final. The cause to my silver medal was due to the fact that I was the fittest I have ever been. Occasionally I think about the outcome had I been a solid 100% in health. Such is sport however. My challenge now is to develop indoor rowing so that i can go on vacation worry free. Man! of topic again. Your last question is interesting. Lactic acid cuts down your aerobic condition. It is the aerobic condition that slows the increase of lactic acid during a race. Are you going to compete this CRASH B? Are you following this plan? What do you mean with paces not exceeding other record pace? If you look at the program I do not push sprints regularly. I can help you further if I know more detail. All the best, XENO </td></tr></table> Hi Xeno, Thanks for taking interest. I can see the bold type now. Let me answer your questions at the end and fill in detail. - I am not planning on doing crash-b this year, but I do race at the satelite event in my area (San Francisco) on Feb 12. I took gold and silver in the last two years there. Next year when I turn 50, I am hoping to do something interesting in Boston. (Am actively pursuing the best one year plan to do that!!). Am presently 6:30ish. - I haven't followed your plan yet. Just saw it a few days ago. I have been doing my own plan, inspired by elements of Wolverine and Pete's plan that you might've seen on other boards here. Maybe we can cut to the chase by my asking you what you think of their once per week 4x1k (or equiv.) at race pace?? I see in your recent post, and in your plan, that you don't often go above half that in a single session. This last seasonal period, I "warmed up" the first week with a 4x1k@1:39, worked my way down to the same workout @1:38 over the next couple of weeks, failed then at 1:37.5, cut, cut, cut intensity the following weeks, and last week just managed one at 1:40 with notable effort. (the other 5 days/week are lower paced steady states or medium paced intervals. Total volume from 60k to 80k). - "Paces not exceeding prior records" meant that the high intensity pieces, described above, were never above my prior personal best 2k (6:28.7). So, my issue at hand is how to get back on track and optimize the last month I have. What sketchy information there is on "overtraining" suggests to me that volume is more of a danger than intensity, so I've been cutting back on the longer steady state stuff for the short term. The couch potato recovery plan. But maybe I've got it backward? Then again, now seeing your boldfaced training items, you favor the higher intensity stuff too for the most part. Right? And some of them (3x7', 100% effort, no rest indicated) don't sound much easier than a 4x1k. That one mentioned sounds a lot like 3 back to back 2k all out tests. One last question. Is there any feature in your plan that gives good feedback on what your 2k capability is? How you should set your race pace goal on race day? I've always thought that a 4x1k was a pretty good proxy for 2k capability. Hopefully enough and not too much detail. Thanks again. Doug </td></tr></table> Hello Doug I have not studied the other training plans. The plan that I wrote is pretty much how I was trained by Marty Aitken my former Olympic coach. The bold printed workouts are there so they stand out among the other long distance work. It does not mean that I would favor the short stuff. Training shorter at harder intensity gets you in a lactic acid shape. This type of training gets you to a plateau and then no farther. For someone who is out of shape, shorter more intense workouts will get them to a nice fitness level, building muscle, capilaries, stronger heart etc. BUT to go beyond and beating your own PB, the aerobic capacity needs to be built. So far science has shown us to train at 1.3 to 1.8 mmol of lactic acid. The 1.3 to 1.6 at 1:45 at stroke rate 22 was possible for me for longer durations when I was training full time no I am at 1:51 I am guesstimating. The 7 minutes are done at low stroke rates. I don't know what the other plans mention about stroke rates. The 7' pieces are there to build extreme torque per stroke without going into huge lactic acid. The fitter an individual is the lower the lactate levels will be EVEN though the effort is an absolute 100%. Over the long term, where is there to go when you push half the race distance several times per week. The time it requires to develop the aerobic engine is significant, which can be monitored over an entire year. We did step tests and it was nice how from September to June I was enjoying a steady progress of my aerobic capacity. The question you might ask is where was the perfromance limit in my case. Every year the training program had me peak around summer time or early Fall. I was able to reach my maximum performance, and then I took time off to recuperate. You just can't maintain super form for more than three weeks. I think this last statement is crucial when planning a training program. Our ability as atheltes is finite, but can be renewed on a yearly basis. XENO

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » January 8th, 2006, 9:54 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(H_2O @ Jan 8 2006, 04:27 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>My interpretation of Xeno's plan is that 4 times 1K at true 2K race pace is too much. The 3 times 7 mins are hard but not as hard because of the stroke rate restriction. These won't kill you. When speedwork gets me into trouble (rowing falls apart) I increase the volume of steady state work but keep it at a pleasant pace and break it up as Xeno suggested. For example in my case: 3 times 20 mins at 1:50, spm 22 with 3 minute breaks in between is a pleasant workout. Scrap the breaks and heart rate will drift very high and it won't be a workout that compensates speedwork any more. Of all the plans I have seen I like Xeno's best. But note that it is a plan for race preparation (the last 6-8 weeks before a race). The Wolverine plan is year round but I don' think I can handle it. My plan for the off season is to do lots of steady state rowing as above, once a week 20 mins at 10K pace and once a week two times 1K at 2K race pace to maintain speed. </td></tr></table> Hi H20 Thank you and yes on what you say. This is a plan is for the seven weeks before CRASHB. To plan an entire year I would combine a lot of cross training. I used to row once a day and as a second workout it was either lifting, kayaking, road bike. I was obsessed with training winning the single scull, so the large volume of training was not an issue. Maybe you all have heard of Scott Roop (my freshman coach at Brown in 1992). Scott and Marty (my Olympic coach) had cycling in common and a beautiful imagination on how to have fun while getting the aerobic base larger to destroy the opposition at 800 meters to go. IF you want to break records you must cross train to get the body as fit as possible. If I were to undertake another round in 2008, which would mean I don't have to worry about paying bills, I would A) Sleep more, get a massage once a week, C) spend time training endurance in the weight room, D) religiously watch what I eat, and Finally enjoy rowing the single scull. Anyhow! I hope this calirfies things further. Thank you again for being complimentary, it is a pleasure of mine to express what I so long had no outlet for. XENO

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » January 8th, 2006, 10:09 pm

Hi Doug I thought about you further. Depending on your rowing technique you can improve a bit on your 2k without training more. Has anybody coached your stroke? XENO

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » January 8th, 2006, 10:15 pm

Doug-- Xeno's 3x7' workouts are listed on a chart in the book Rowing Faster. That charts lists a recovery of 2,000 mtrs. I assume done at a paddle. Tom

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » January 9th, 2006, 1:19 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ Jan 8 2006, 07:15 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Doug-- Xeno's 3x7' workouts are listed on a chart in the book Rowing Faster. That charts lists a recovery of 2,000 mtrs. I assume done at a paddle. Tom </td></tr></table> Tom, Xeno, Thanks for the clarifications. I guess the bottom line is the obvious don't-overdo-it. But knowing what level that is for oneself, and pacing correctly is quite a trick. Knowing that must be one of the competitor's best held secrets. Tom, Looked all through "Rowing Faster" and couldn't find that reference. But your rest period sounds reasonable. Xeno, I row with a coached club all year and they are very fussy about technique, on ergs as well as the water. I don't think my technique is far off, but no assurance it is perfect. Doug

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » January 9th, 2006, 2:52 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Xeno @ Jan 8 2006)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Lactic acid breaks down muscle tissue in extreme cases </td></tr></table> Doesn't LA also stimulate hgh release? Isn't LA our friend usually because of this? <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Xeno @ Jan 8 2006)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> To compensate for high intensity trainings, aerobic steady state workouts are done, at aerobic target heart rate or lower. </td></tr></table> How does aerobic work "compensate" for high intensity training? Does easy steady state the day after really cure a lactate hangover? How so, more than just rest would?

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » January 9th, 2006, 6:21 am

Xeno, I have to thank you as your program pulled me out of a horrible slump. Doug, One month is very short but I was in a similar position as you. I started following Xeno's approach: once a week 3 times 7 mins (full recovery, as long as you want), once a week 2K race pace (not too much, follow Xeno's advice). It turned my downward spiral around and I just recently split 1500 below 1:35 for the first time. That took only 4 weeks.

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » January 9th, 2006, 1:28 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(H_2O @ Jan 9 2006, 03:21 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Xeno, I have to thank you as your program pulled me out of a horrible slump. Doug, One month is very short but I was in a similar position as you. I started following Xeno's approach: once a week 3 times 7 mins (full recovery, as long as you want), once a week 2K race pace (not too much, follow Xeno's advice). It turned my downward spiral around and I just recently split 1500 below 1:35 for the first time. That took only 4 weeks. </td></tr></table> H2O, Thanks a lot for your inputs and assistance. Didn't I see you over on the Wolverine board? Anyway, that's quite a split there. It is what I was DREAMING of a couple faded months back. Do you think you'd be able to hold that for a 2k anytime soon? So, I haven't memorized the plan yet, but have copied it, am reading through it, and may re-date the workouts to coincide the end with my Feb12 competition, jump into the middle and see what goes. Was that 1500m sprint in one of the workouts? Throughout this plan, how do you get feedback on what your 2k goal ought to be at your competition? Are there test pieces along the way? I didn't really see any, until the very end. And on that note, one week before crash-b Xeno asks for a 2k piece at race pace, which sounds a lot like the crash-b. He says not to go all out and PB, but to aim for 5 - 8 seconds longer. Does he mean in 500m splits, or out of the whole 2k time? Again, I think my biggest difficulty would be in knowing what to aim for.

[old] Byron Drachman · Post by **[old] Byron Drachman** » January 9th, 2006, 4:44 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Tue 10 60’ 3X20 minutes steady state. Look at your total meters rowed for each 20’ holding it at your right aerobic heart rate. Use these steady state rows to find your aerobic cruising speed. </td></tr></table> Hi Xeno, Would that be at 22 strokes per minute? Or is it just find how fast I can go with heart rate at the aerobic heart rate using whatever rate feels best? There might be some cardiac drift by the third 20', so just use the best one of the three 20' pieces? Along with the others, I want to thank you for posting the workout. Byron

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » January 10th, 2006, 12:43 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Jan 9 2006, 10:28 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(H_2O @ Jan 9 2006, 03:21 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Xeno, I have to thank you as your program pulled me out of a horrible slump. Doug, One month is very short but I was in a similar position as you. I started following Xeno's approach: once a week 3 times 7 mins (full recovery, as long as you want), once a week 2K race pace (not too much, follow Xeno's advice). It turned my downward spiral around and I just recently split 1500 below 1:35 for the first time. That took only 4 weeks. </td></tr></table> H2O, Thanks a lot for your inputs and assistance. Didn't I see you over on the Wolverine board? Anyway, that's quite a split there. It is what I was DREAMING of a couple faded months back. Do you think you'd be able to hold that for a 2k anytime soon? So, I haven't memorized the plan yet, but have copied it, am reading through it, and may re-date the workouts to coincide the end with my Feb12 competition, jump into the middle and see what goes. Was that 1500m sprint in one of the workouts? Throughout this plan, how do you get feedback on what your 2k goal ought to be at your competition? Are there test pieces along the way? I didn't really see any, until the very end. And on that note, one week before crash-b Xeno asks for a 2k piece at race pace, which sounds a lot like the crash-b. He says not to go all out and PB, but to aim for 5 - 8 seconds longer. Does he mean in 500m splits, or out of the whole 2k time? Again, I think my biggest difficulty would be in knowing what to aim for. </td></tr></table> The goal of the 2k before the main event is to get into race mode and create a final dress rehearsal of the actual distance and the pain it involves. On race day, your adrenaline level will greatly contribute to a faster start and a faster finish. Earlier I read a question on why "compensate" for a hard workout. It is important to balance work loads. Assuming the hard workout was taxing, it is beneficial to actively recuperate from the physical stress. I am glad to hear that the general steady state regime brings positive results. For everyone's information, the type of training I write about has been done by MANY national teams such as GB, CH, SLO, GER, TCH, NZ, AUS, FRA, to a certain degree CAN with the women in the 90ies, NOT Mike Spraklin.

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » January 10th, 2006, 4:17 am

[quote=Xeno,Jan 7 2006, 09:22 PM] [quote=H_2O,Jan 4 2006, 03:11 PM]Xeno, What's the purpose of the 15 seconds on, 15 seconds off workouts? The beauty about the 15 on and off is that you get to push high ratings without getting too much into oxygene deprivation. The lactate levels stay "low". [/quote] So what is the pace for these 15"OnOff? One here says "steady state", but they sound like hard core intervals. Race pace? 150%? Is this for lactate production or just a variation on steady state, or something in between?

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » January 10th, 2006, 11:33 am

[quote=dougsurf,Jan 10 2006, 01:17 AM] [quote=Xeno,Jan 7 2006, 09:22 PM] [quote=H_2O,Jan 4 2006, 03:11 PM]Xeno, What's the purpose of the 15 seconds on, 15 seconds off workouts? The beauty about the 15 on and off is that you get to push high ratings without getting too much into oxygene deprivation. The lactate levels stay "low". [/quote] So what is the pace for these 15"OnOff? One here says "steady state", but they sound like hard core intervals. Race pace? 150%? Is this for lactate production or just a variation on steady state, or something in between? [/quote] The 15 sec on and off, are there to train race and sprint stroke rates and their respective split times.

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » January 10th, 2006, 11:34 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Jan 9 2006, 12:28 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Was that 1500m sprint in one of the workouts? Throughout this plan, how do you get feedback on what your 2k goal ought to be at your competition? Are there test pieces along the way? I didn't really see any, until the very end. And on that note, one week before crash-b Xeno asks for a 2k piece at race pace, which sounds a lot like the crash-b. He says not to go all out and PB, but to aim for 5 - 8 seconds longer. Does he mean in 500m splits, or out of the whole 2k time? Again, I think my biggest difficulty would be in knowing what to aim for. </td></tr></table> Doug, Xeno's program has one 1500m or 2K as a race rehearsal. This wasn't it, I am creatively altering Xeno's program slightly. If you do the prerace rehearsal as a 2K you are supposed to be 6-8 secs slower on the whole 2K (1.5 - 2 secs slower on the splits but actually because you start very evenly and do not sprint to the finish). Myself I am using Mike Cavistons pacing protokol: First 800m: target split +1 next 600m: target split next 400m: target split -1 last 200m: target split -2 Being optimistic I'll try for 1:35 splits. This would have me do the segments in 1:36, 1:35, 1:34, 1:33. I have tested this succesfully on a 1200m piece (the last 1200 of a 2K) and get this acceleration by picking up the stroke rate by one stroke each time. The 1500 was supposed to be the finishing 1500 of the 2K also so pace should have been 1:36 for 300, 1:35 for 600, 1:34 for 400, 1:33 for 200. However I made the mistake of bypassing the 1:36 and going to 1:34 very quickly. That was a mistake as I was fighting for the pace pretty soon and was not able to accelerate as indicated. This shows that I definitely should not target a 1:34 split on the 2K. This way you can discover a realistic pace for the 2K. Mike Caviston's comment about NOT taking a few ("free") powerful strokes at the start is also really important. There are guys rowing 6:30 and hitting 1:25 at the start for a few strokes. If you look at the stroke graphs from BIRC you'll see that most guys row like that. Maybe this comes from on the water rowing where it's a huge advantage to see the competition. I used to do the same but have gotten rid of that habit and am doing much better now.

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » January 10th, 2006, 2:04 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The 15 sec on and off, are there to train race and sprint stroke rates and their respective split times. </td></tr></table> Xeno Thanks for this. I was overdoing it (again). I think I mentioned it, but I am in on this plan now, but two weeks ahead of everyone else since I'm just using it for our local race on Feb 12. So questions like this may come earlier than expected. Much thanks for the plan and all of your help.