Weight Vs Length

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 17th, 2005, 3:58 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Byron Drachman @ Nov 17 2005, 11:30 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>there are certainly very athletic individuals in the NBA that should be able to monopolize the WR's at least on the Erg if not in Boats? Hmmm? </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Paul,<br /><br />I agree that taller doesn't always mean faster. I'm constantly passed by shorter rowers on the water. I don't remember, but isn't the 2K world record holder on the C2 very tall? I think that the point was that if everything else is equal and both rowers can apply the same force at the handles and footboards, the taller rower has the advantage. <br /><br />This takes us back to an earlier thread where the discussion was about recruiting basketball, volleyball, etc. players. <br /><br />Byron <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Mathias Siejkowski is certainly quite tall (6'10" or something like that I think), however we can't point to much success for him on the water.<br /><br />Same force over a longer distance (or time) will end up being more power, seems straight forward enough. But then everything is not equal. <br /><br />Take two rowers, 6' and 6'6", make them the same weight, strength, skill and fitness, make them row the same DF on the Erg, and it's quite likely that they would be tough to distinguish. <br /><br />As for John's "observations of top rowers", I have no idea what he is talking about. Long arms and legs are certainly characteristic, torsos seem to be anyones guess, but hip strength has been shown to make a difference, so whatever torso you have it's important to be able to use it to connect your legs to your arms.<br /><br />Kind of reminds me of something I heard about leg length - "They need to be long enough to reach the ground."

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 17th, 2005, 4:33 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Nov 17 2005, 11:53 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Porkchop @ Nov 17 2005, 01:26 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>"Discuss among yourselves." "Linda Richman" (SNL 1991). <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><b>Completely</b> off subject, but did anyone ever answer the discussion:<br /><br />'Rhode Island is neither a road nor an island...discuss' <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />No, they didn't.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 17th, 2005, 4:35 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 17 2005, 11:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>As for John's "observations of top rowers", I have no idea what he is talking about. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />As compared to supposition, observation is more accurate, meaningful, and useful.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 17th, 2005, 4:50 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 17 2005, 12:35 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 17 2005, 11:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>As for John's "observations of top rowers", I have no idea what he is talking about. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />As compared to supposition, observation is more accurate, meaningful, and useful. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Then show us these long torso, long armed, short legged "top rowers".<br /><br />I'm quite certain I've met more rowers than you, and some of them might even be considered "top". Not to mention the ones that I review from Olympic and World Cup competitions, definitely considered "top".<br /><br />I know you fancy yourself long legged, short torso'd, and short overall, so just want to reinforce another excuse as to why you need some sort of handicap or factorial adjustment to compare with others. I'm letting you know that you do not need to do that, you do what you can do, with what you got, and then try to make improvements from there, simple.<br /><br />So please bring on the facts, data, photos, and illustrations that back you up.<br /><br />I'll offer this link to a lot of photos of "Top Rowers"<br /><a href='http://www.nlroei.nl/index.php?module=Fotoboek&meid=23' target='_blank'>NLRoei</a>

[old] afolpe · Post by **[old] afolpe** » November 17th, 2005, 5:38 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Nov 17 2005, 02:53 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Porkchop @ Nov 17 2005, 01:26 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>"Discuss among yourselves." "Linda Richman" (SNL 1991). <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><b>Completely</b> off subject, but did anyone ever answer the discussion:<br /><br />'Rhode Island is neither a road nor an island...discuss' <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I think the "island" is the island that Jamestown is on. The full name is actually "Rhode Island and Providence Plantation"- Providence plantation is the on land part of the state.<br /><br />andrew

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 17th, 2005, 6:28 pm

PaulS,<br /><br />Being a long time distance runner, I am over 90% of the WR for my AWG.<br /><br />You are a long time rower and only at 73%. <br /><br />Whatever I am doing, it is working much better than what you are.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 17th, 2005, 7:17 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 17 2005, 02:28 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>PaulS,<br /><br />Being a long time distance runner, I am over 90% of the WR for my AWG.<br /><br />You are a long time rower and only at 73%. <br /><br />Whatever I am doing, it is working much better than what you are. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'd suggest that you have already diminished your own position on this one by telling us that the number of competitors in your age group are relatively sparse.<br /><br />Yet for some reason you are not able to be in the 90th percentile for your age category, however I am for mine. The only category tougher than M40-49 is M30-39, and low and behold, I'm even in the 90th percentile in that group, how about that. Whereas it looks like you are not quite able to make the 75th percentile in your category. If you can hang on until you are 60 and not lose too much performance you may finally get to the 90th percentile, but as you have told GeorgeNZ, "there are no guarantees".<br /><br />You mistake PATT for something other than a Pitiful Attempt To Talk yourself up.<br />I have no need for such manipulations, and am happy to stick with objective figures of relative performance within the established classes.<br /><br />You get youself to the 90th percentile and then we'll talk. Until then you've got nothing to base your claims of "doing better" than me on.<br /><br />How about those slides, Spanky?<br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 17th, 2005, 7:36 pm

PaulS,<br /><br />All the percentages of the WR's for my times are in my signature file.<br /><br />Where are yours?

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 17th, 2005, 7:48 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 17 2005, 03:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>PaulS,<br /><br />All the percentages of the WR's for my times are in my signature file.<br /><br />Where are yours? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Those aren't percentages in your signature line, it's well clear they are meaningless.<br /><br />Show your percentiles of World wide ranked times. But I suppose that wouldn't make you "feel" as good.<br /><br />I wouldn't want to embarass you too much, and anyway you are not in my class and therefore no competition whatsoever.<br /><br />Let's just say that you are going down a very wrong road, and it will only lead to your ruin.<br /><br />What is that saying about pride coming before the fall? <br /><br />Don't you cover problems like yours in Life Coaching Seminars?

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 17th, 2005, 7:51 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 17 2005, 03:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>PaulS,<br /><br />All the percentages of the WR's for my times are in my signature file.<br /><br />Where are yours? [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />I knew you wouldn't be able to answer that.

[old] Porkchop · Post by **[old] Porkchop** » November 17th, 2005, 8:13 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Nov 17 2005, 01:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Porkchop @ Nov 17 2005, 06:26 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Perhaps I am being overtechnical here (what me? ), but rather than discussing height <i>per se</i>, shouldn't we be considering bodypart length. It seems to me that the contibution of "height" to stroke-length has 3 components: (1) arm-length (<i>i.e.</i>, how far past the knees can the rower reach at the catch); (2) leg-length (<i>i.e.</i>, how far the rower can pull from the initial catch before beginning the arm pull); and (3) to a much smaller degree, torso-length, which may have a small effect on the additional stroke-length to be gained from layback. (Since the angle of the layback is usually recommended to be relatively low, the contribution of torso-length to the overall length of stroke would seem to be relatively small.) Handicapping by height alone would assume some degree of uniformity in arm-, leg-, and torso-length among rowers of the same height.<br /><br />"Discuss among yourselves." "Linda Richman" (SNL 1991). <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'm a little verklempt . <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Me, too -- not least because the discussion seems to have gone irreparably off course in fewer than 10 posts.<br /><br />Afolpe, that really threw cold water on a fascinating faux discussion. <br />

[old] jamesg · Post by **[old] jamesg** » November 18th, 2005, 4:46 am

For oarsmen, it seems to me quite obvious that weight defines the amount of power we can produce, and height defines how efficiently we can get that power to the blade. <br /><br />No doubt there are ideal levels for both, and there's an ideal ratio between them too. If we recorded in the on-line log not only our paces, but also heights and weights, some future guru could analyse the data and no doubt work out some magic number that indicates how fast any particular specimen would be if he bothered to train and had any athletic ability.<br /><br />In any case it's a pity that so much data is getting lost; and not least to show how well the human frame can stay alive kicking and equally able to work for many years, just by keeping fit.<br /><br />This year the P to M do was won by that Oxford lot weighing average 98 kg; Cambridge were 88 kg av, and unsurprisingly came second. In my day on that stretch of the Thames we weighed av 82 kg, no doubt being half starved war babies.<br /><br />So there seems little doubt (and anyone who has doubts can always analyse the Boat Race data for the last century or so) that a. heavy crews tend to be faster and b. coaches pick the bigger ones if they can.

[old] remador · Post by **[old] remador** » November 18th, 2005, 7:14 am

James,<br /><br />Indeed, it's pretty much like you say. And let's not forget that taller rowers have space for larger hearts and lungs, and higher absolute VO2max. <br /><br />Of course there is no way we could distinguish totally body mass from body size, but, in rowing, there is a major biomechanical advantage in being a taller athlete.<br />Longer strokes with less muscular stress (stretching) is good for you. Of course, this doesn't mean smaller rowers can't do well - but, even most top lwts are not guys who, in average, have the normal height for a 70-72,5 kg guy - they are taller and "make weight".<br /><br /><br />AM

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 18th, 2005, 10:36 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 17 2005, 03:51 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 17 2005, 03:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>PaulS,<br /><br />All the percentages of the WR's for my times are in my signature file.<br /><br />Where are yours? [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />I knew you wouldn't be able to answer that. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John,<br /><br />I don't really have a need to boast, as you seem to. Though at the same time have no problem with dealing with real percentile figures rather than some manipulated numbers.<br /><br />Let's just say I've gone fast enough that I'm happy with the performance, and you wouldn't believe it anyway, you would probably even insult me as you have before by questioning it. When I see a time that I think I should challenge, I'll do that, record it on video and that will be that. Fortunately I haven't had the need after the last time, two years ago; And it was on Slides anyway, so doesn't really count. <br /><br />I train (and test) for me, I can't imagine it meaning anything to anyone else. Well, maybe my 2x partners, but I won't let them down.<br /><br />Still waiting for the proof of your unusually built "top" rowers. ID10T!

[old] holm188 · Post by **[old] holm188** » November 18th, 2005, 12:16 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 18 2005, 09:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Still waiting for the proof of your unusually built "top" rowers. ID10T! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />"<b> ID10T!</b>"<br /><br />Is that a new variation of S10MPS ?? <br /><br />Just a joke to lighten up the tension!

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Weight Vs Length

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