Us Indoor Rowing Team Selection

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » November 10th, 2005, 10:41 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 10 2005, 04:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(kjgress @ Nov 9 2005, 09:54 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The fastest 12 people, 6 of each gender, were selected to go. Faster meaning division relative of course. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have seen no published announcement or chart giving such standards as compared to the World Records for each age, weight class and gender, and certainly not any chart or annoucement that was published in advance for EVERY interested party to see. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />John,<br /><br />I don't think anyone will see that info unless you are actually involved in picking who gets to go. I don't recall Concept 2 ever sharing that information except the one time Paul Flack needed to break 6:22 to make the BIRC team. They actually posted the video of his Time Trial on the internet. <br /><br />I was kind of hoping they would have more representation in the Men's 30-39 HWT and Men's 40-49 HWT, like two in each category. Those two categories tower in comparison to the number of competitors in any other category, I think . . . pretty sure. . . better check. The Men's HWT Open probably has more and for that matter the Women's HWT Open may have more, also. When I get a chance, or perhaps you can do this, look at the number of people who competed at the EIRC in 2004 in each category and perhaps device a systematic way in which Concept 2 may consider in choosing who gets to go. Maybe Concept 2 wanted to create interest in groups that go under the radar at races, which may lead to the exclusion of more popular groups.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 10th, 2005, 11:36 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Thomas @ Nov 10 2005, 06:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>John,<br /><br />I don't think anyone will see that info unless you are actually involved in picking who gets to go. </td></tr></table><br />Thomas,<br /><br />That appears to be how it works and that's exactly the point. The criteria for selection should be equitable and public information which is published well in advance for everyone who is interested to see.<br /><br />Yes the men's hwt has more rowers than any other division, though I think a lot of that is based on past opportunities. If you will look at the population of the United States, I think you will find there are at least as many women as there are men in that age group.<br /><br />As to age groups, a lot of the challenge in getting to them is living that long, which is far greater of a challenge than chopping a few seconds off a 2k. I have all respect for someone who has not only survived for 80 years but is doing so well they have the inspiration for competing in athletic events! <br /><br />I am satisfied with the selection across age groups, and also including 1/2 women and 1/2 men on the team. Were the women and men's groups to be selected based on proximity to world record times by age then the process would be more precise, which is what I'd like to see. Otherwise I think the process is good, except that it should be based on objective well defined standards and performances, not secretive subjective selections.

[old] Ralph Earle · Post by **[old] Ralph Earle** » November 11th, 2005, 12:13 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 11 2005, 12:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />I have seen no published announcement or chart giving such standards as compared to the World Records for each age, weight class and gender, and certainly not any chart or annoucement that was published in advance for EVERY interested party to see. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />The standards, along with an explanation that they are based on the prior year's CRASH-B medal-winning performance, have been up on the C2 website at <br /><a href='http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... s_2005.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... asp</a><br /><br />As in 2003 and 2004, they were posted when the initial announcement was made about the USIRT.

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » November 11th, 2005, 3:17 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 10 2005, 07:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Thomas @ Nov 10 2005, 06:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>John,<br /><br />I don't think anyone will see that info unless you are actually involved in picking who gets to go. </td></tr></table><br />Thomas,<br /><br />That appears to be how it works and that's exactly the point. The criteria for selection should be equitable and public information which is published well in advance for everyone who is interested to see.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Concept 2 is a private company and not a government agency.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 11th, 2005, 3:59 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Ralph Earle @ Nov 10 2005, 08:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 11 2005, 12:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />I have seen no published announcement or chart giving such standards as compared to the World Records for each age, weight class and gender, and certainly not any chart or annoucement that was published in advance for EVERY interested party to see. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />The standards, along with an explanation that they are based on the prior year's CRASH-B medal-winning performance, have been up on the C2 website at <br /><a href='http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... s_2005.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... asp</a><br /><br />As in 2003 and 2004, they were posted when the initial announcement was made about the USIRT. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ralph, now you know better than to bring facts that refute Johns rants.<br /><br />If the ultimate criteria was anything less than "Take the qualifiers that have the best chance of winning Gold." I would be very surprised. Yet C2, and the USIRT coaches, would be free to pick based on "shoe size" if they wanted to, it's their team afterall.

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » November 11th, 2005, 4:22 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>If the ultimate criteria was anything less than "Take the qualifiers that have the best chance of winning Gold." I would be very surprised. Yet C2, and the USIRT coaches, would be free to pick based on "shoe size" if they wanted to, it's their team afterall. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I thought the same but at the same time I thought about where are the majority of the competitors without taking anything away from any particular group.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 11th, 2005, 4:27 pm

I'm glad we all agree now, that the standards continue to be a complete farce. <img src='http://degiorgi.math.hr/forum/images/smiles/kiss.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 11th, 2005, 4:36 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 11 2005, 12:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I'm glad we all agree now, that the standards continue to be a complete farce. <img src='http://degiorgi.math.hr/forum/images/smiles/kiss.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />No, <i><b>you</b></i> would have to be on the USIRT to show that. <br /><br />Are there team members you believe should be replaced? If so, and it seems obvious that you do, please at least explain why. No more veiled BS, lay out your case! If you do a better job than the current selection team pehaps you will get the job for 2006.

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » November 11th, 2005, 4:39 pm

I don't know how John could actually point at someone on the list and say that person should not be on the team but he would probably feel more comfortable if he saw his own favorites on the team.

[old] cem6k · Post by **[old] cem6k** » November 11th, 2005, 4:41 pm

I don't really know why I feel a need to respond to all of this conjecturing, but these repeated posts in regard to the lack of objectivity of the USIRT Dev Squad are really starting to piss me off. <br /><br />Bottom line, if you're upset that you weren't invited to join--get yourselves to Crash-b's or a similar legit indoor competition and pull a score that qualifies you. If you are not sure what score qualifies you, look it up. If you are unable to pull a score that qualifies you to get invited, then you would be a waste of a ticket to EIRC--Concept 2 is paying to send people who will medal. <br /><br />If you really feel like Concept 2 is trying to screw you over, bear in mind they're simply trying to put together the fastest possible team in as many different categories as possible. All who are invited are fast enough-- I don't see any unqualified people on the list.<br /><br />~Chrissie Monaghan<br />'05 Dev Squad<br />Unviersity of Virginia W. Crew<br /><br /><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 11 2005, 03:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I'm glad we all agree now, that the standards continue to be a complete farce. <img src='http://degiorgi.math.hr/forum/images/smiles/kiss.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br />

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » November 11th, 2005, 5:07 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(cem6k @ Nov 11 2005, 03:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I don't really know why I feel a need to respond to all of this conjecturing, but these repeated posts in regard to the lack of objectivity of the USIRT Dev Squad are really starting to piss me off. <br /><br />Bottom line, if you're upset that you weren't invited to join--get yourselves to Crash-b's or a similar legit indoor competition and pull a score that qualifies you. If you are not sure what score qualifies you, look it up. If you are unable to pull a score that qualifies you to get invited, then you would be a waste of a ticket to EIRC--Concept 2 is paying to send people who will medal. <br /><br />If you really feel like Concept 2 is trying to screw you over, bear in mind they're simply trying to put together the fastest possible team in as many different categories as possible. All who are invited are fast enough-- I don't see any unqualified people on the list.<br /><br />~Chrissie Monaghan<br />'05 Dev Squad<br />Unviersity of Virginia W. Crew<br /><br /><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 11 2005, 03:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I'm glad we all agree now, that the standards continue to be a complete farce. <img src='http://degiorgi.math.hr/forum/images/smiles/kiss.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Give it to 'em Chrissie!!! She's made the best statement on this thread yet.<br /><br />But I'll repeat it just in case there are any who don't understand.<br /><br />Pull a qualified erg time, and you're on the Dev Squad. After that, it's up to the selection crew to pick whom ever they want to. After all it is <b>their</b> team.

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » November 11th, 2005, 5:13 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>don't really know why I feel a need to respond to all of this conjecturing, but these repeated posts in regard to the lack of objectivity of the USIRT Dev Squad are really starting to piss me off. <br /><br />Bottom line, if you're upset that you weren't invited to join--get yourselves to Crash-b's or a similar legit indoor competition and pull a score that qualifies you. If you are not sure what score qualifies you, look it up. If you are unable to pull a score that qualifies you to get invited, then you would be a waste of a ticket to EIRC--Concept 2 is paying to send people who will medal. <br /><br />If you really feel like Concept 2 is trying to screw you over, bear in mind they're simply trying to put together the fastest possible team in as many different categories as possible. All who are invited are fast enough-- I don't see any unqualified people on the list.<br /><br />~Chrissie Monaghan<br />'05 Dev Squad<br />Unviersity of Virginia W. Crew </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hello Chrissie,<br /><br />That is exactly why some people are voicing concern. In the 2004 EIRC, Concept 2 took two rowers in the same category, two in the Men's 40-49 Lightweight and two in the Women's 60-69 HWT, and passed on taking another rower in a different category who would have been projected to win.

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » November 11th, 2005, 5:22 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Nov 11 2005, 01:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(cem6k @ Nov 11 2005, 03:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I don't really know why I feel a need to respond to all of this conjecturing, but these repeated posts in regard to the lack of objectivity of the USIRT Dev Squad are really starting to piss me off. <br /><br />Bottom line, if you're upset that you weren't invited to join--get yourselves to Crash-b's or a similar legit indoor competition and pull a score that qualifies you. If you are not sure what score qualifies you, look it up. If you are unable to pull a score that qualifies you to get invited, then you would be a waste of a ticket to EIRC--Concept 2 is paying to send people who will medal. <br /><br />If you really feel like Concept 2 is trying to screw you over, bear in mind they're simply trying to put together the fastest possible team in as many different categories as possible. All who are invited are fast enough-- I don't see any unqualified people on the list.<br /><br />~Chrissie Monaghan<br />'05 Dev Squad<br />Unviersity of Virginia W. Crew<br /><br /><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 11 2005, 03:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I'm glad we all agree now, that the standards continue to be a complete farce. <img src='http://degiorgi.math.hr/forum/images/smiles/kiss.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Give it to 'em Chrissie!!! She's made the best statement on this thread yet.<br /><br />But I'll repeat it just in case there are any who don't understand.<br /><br />Pull a qualified erg time, and you're on the Dev Squad. After that, it's up to the selection crew to pick whom ever they want to. After all it is <b>their</b> team. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That is how I feel in that it is their team and their money. I think a person could pull an awesome time but if that person is not liked then you don't get picked. Perhaps they are trying to focus attention on a particular group to generate more interest, which would exclude someone that could win. There is no oversight commitee involved because it is not that kind of entity.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 11th, 2005, 5:31 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Thomas @ Nov 11 2005, 01:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I think a person could pull an awesome time but if that person is not liked then you don't get picked. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><b>WHO?!?!!?</b></span></span><br /><br />This seems like such a bunch of crap! If something didn't go how people thought it should last year, C2 changed the procedure to be more objective and inclusive for this year, if anything. I think last year was plenty objective, and seem to recall that gold medals were won. Was there a gold medal won by someone who tried for USIRT 2004 but did not get selected? Were there some selected that did not medal? Do affirmations in either case mean there is any sort of conspiracy against anyone? I doubt it, and I'm a rather cynical fellow.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 11th, 2005, 5:55 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Nov 11 2005, 01:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>She's made the best statement on this thread yet.<br /><br />But I'll repeat it just in case there are any who don't understand.<br /><br />Pull a qualified erg time, and you're on the Dev Squad. After that, it's up to the selection crew to pick whom ever they want to. After all it is <b>their</b> team.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Exactly.<br /><br />That's what I've been saying all along.<br /><br />There are no standards, other than being on the dev squat but that means nothing as to being selected on the team. <br /><br />They pick whoever they want, based on nothing. There are no standards.<br /><br />To say or assume or presume there are standards is to not understand the process of selection.

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