Strapless Rowing

[[old] shu246]

ok, i see it - mostly.<br /><br />have loosened the straps, still working at +/- 20spm.<br /><br />yes all backward motion can be arrested without use of the toestraps, just by the final snap of the bar into the abdomen.<br /><br />next step is to start the body forward on the recovery. here a light flick of the toes against the straps is helpful. <br /><br />initiation of the recovery can be facilitated by rapid snap forward of the arms and bar as soon as rearward motion of the power stroke is stopped. however i find this maneuver while effective is not efficient and overall requires more energy for the full stroke cycle. (i get tired faster and time/500m increases.)<br /><br />finally, seems to me that in any sustained high cruise the breathing cycle must be in a rational phase relationship with the stroke cycle. it's nice to extract 100% of the pull energy to the flywheel. however using a small fraction of that energy to facilitate recovery and initiate the next pull sooner, in phase with the breating cycle, may be required for maximum sustained meters/minute.<br />

[[old] Paul S]

OK, now that I am off crutches and out of cast and walking boot I have decided to try strapless rowing. I have no problem with stopping at the finish but my toes rise about 3 or so inches. Does this mean my form is bad? Should my feet stay flat? I am not having any problem going forward on the recovery.<br /><br />Thanks, Paul Salata

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Paul S+Aug 24 2005, 12:19 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Paul S @ Aug 24 2005, 12:19 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OK, now that I am off crutches and out of cast and walking boot I have decided to try strapless rowing.  I have no problem with stopping at the finish but my toes rise about 3 or so inches.  Does this mean my form is bad?  Should my feet stay flat?  I am not having any problem going forward on the recovery.<br /><br />Thanks, Paul Salata <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Do you mean that just your heels are remaining in contact with the footplate or that your whole foot leaves the footplate. Do you not keep your toes down all through the stroke?<br /><br />Having the toes lift while the heel "digs in" seems to be almost a reflexive behavior in many people. I suggest to all my rowers to allow the whole foot to stay in contact with the foot plate and avoid the "rocking foot". It's a bit of a fight to stay relaxed, but will be more comfortable in the long run.

[[old] Paul S]

As I approach the finish my heels remain in contact but the rest of my feet raise up. In trying to keep the whole foot down thru out, it seems to stress the shin area and it makes me worry about getting shin splits which I have had before and don't want again. Am I going to far back in my drive? Thank you Paul for your help.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Paul S+Aug 24 2005, 01:23 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Paul S @ Aug 24 2005, 01:23 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As I approach the finish my heels remain in contact but the rest of my feet raise up.  In trying to keep the whole foot down thru out, it seems to stress the shin area and it makes me worry about getting shin splits which I have had before and don't want again.  Am I going to far back in my drive?  Thank you Paul for your help. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />There shouldn't be much stress going to the finish, unless ankle flexibility is a problem. Does standing on your tip-toes cause the same stress feeling? Lifting the toes actually engages the muscles on your shin, it's the only way the heel can remain extended.<br /><br />The ankle will go through a pretty full range of motion (as long as it can) during the stroke cycle as a matter of course, very similar to what it would do if we jumped off the ground. However since we are in a seated position, and the footplate is angled, we just end up with support under the whole foot throughout, instead of the heels lifting at the end of a jump. Truly, there should be very little tightness in the lower leg at any part of the stroke, and if you are feeling some, try to nail down what the cause is. If it's a flexibility issue, work on gaining range of motion very gradually, so as not to cause injury. Plus there is no need to rush, slow steady progress will always get you father in the long run.

[[old] John Rupp]

I rowed more than 6 million meters strapless a couple years ago and it didn't do anything for my times.<br /><br />To the contrary, they got slower.<br /><br />Then when I went back to using the straps, my rhythm and timing were off.<br /><br />It took awhile to get them back.<br /><br />Gradually I regained my timing and rhythm with the straps and was able again to better my PB's.

[[old] Neb154]

Not to seem mean spirited, but John, what does that totally offbased negativty have anything to do with this topic? As far as I can tell, PaulS was just giving his impressions, and saying progress is slow and its best not to rush. How is he forcefully trying to "interfere with good rowers"? Also, i'm not going to question the validity of your PATT score theory, but regardless, it is totally irrelevant to this post. Have your arguements in PMs or e-mails between yourselfs instead of butting in on other posts. This is not the place for unconstructive criticism.

[[old] John Rupp]

Neb,<br /><br />I was just trying to be helpful, but if you don't appreciate it then that's fine.

[[old] Coach Gus]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Aug 24 2005, 02:51 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Aug 24 2005, 02:51 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In case anyone else hasn't figured it out, PaulS...doesn't row much himself though... <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />What does the amount someone currently rows have to do with being a good coach?<br />

[[old] Paul S]

Good grief people, I asked a simple question to aid me in my recovery. I think the main problem is that I was on crutches for 7 weeks and lost a lot of flexability in both feet. Even though I was using my right foot while on crutches it was not a normal walking gait so it lost flexibility and strength also. This picayune sniping at one another is why I mostly read posts on the training forum rather then post. There are people here who really seem rather arrogant in their viewpoints toward one another and PaulS is not one of them. Grow up.

[[old] Porkchop]

Paul,<br /><br />Based on my own experience, I suggest that you follow PaulS' advice. I spent almost a year on crutches and three walking with a cane after a couple of botched surgeries, so I can appreciate your issues better than most, I think. The return to flexibility is a slow process, as are the return of some motor skills. Take it slow and do what you can.<br /><br />With respect to foot position, I do the same as you when rowing strapless, but less and less as time goes on (I think). There is a lot to keep in mind as you row, and it is difficult to think about everything at once. I think that the foot position is probably a lower priority than other aspects of the stroke, so should get somewhat less attention. <br /><br />In addition, the degree of attention you give the issue really should depend on what your goal is. In my case, I row for fun and general conditioning, not as a competitor. In the end, it probably doesn't matter much if my strapless foot position becomes perfect or not. When I do my 2K's for time, I am strapped in anyway, and when I row otherwise, my only competition is my previous times. <br /><br />I am not advocating sloppy technique, but I do suggest that perfection is elusive and that absolute perfection (which is not attainable anyway for the vast majority, if not all) may not be a necessary goal for everyone who sits on an erg. There is a difference between those aspects of technique that are necessary to keep from getting hurt and those that are necessary to obtain maximum performance. (I'm not sure whether unstrapped foot position falls into either category, though, because competitive performances are strapped in, anyway.)

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Coach Gus+Aug 24 2005, 05:53 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Coach Gus @ Aug 24 2005, 05:53 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Aug 24 2005, 02:51 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Aug 24 2005, 02:51 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In case anyone else hasn't figured it out, PaulS...doesn't row much himself though... <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />What does the amount someone currently rows have to do with being a good coach? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have actually been rowing a fair bit, but that should be obvious from a basic understanding of JR's understanding and transmission of information. ("180deg out")<br /><br />I competed at the World Masters Games and came 11th of 37 boats in the M2x B (with a partner I met for the first time on race day, and we actually beat the M2xB that I used to coach, which was a typical gold medal winner at regional regattas.), and 11th of 38 boats in the Mixed 2x C. So while there's plenty of room for improvement, the results were not disappointing for a 6 month preparation, and the first time in a competitive event after many years. <br /><br />As always, I offer advice based on a several years of dealing with a wide range of athletes, and haven't been the cause of any adverse effects on performance. Still, C2 has written quite a disclaimer for the forum that everyone should certainly pay attention to.

[[old] John Rupp]

You have to get back up the slide some way, whether it's the use of straps or digging your heels into the foot plates.<br /><br />Otherwise just remove the straps and heel stops and row that way.<br /><br />Let me know your results when you do this.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Aug 25 2005, 08:27 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Aug 25 2005, 08:27 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What I find very strange is that anyone else would want the same results, crutches, surgeries, loss of flexibility and motor skills that he has obtained from his 20 minutes of training.<br /><br />Now he takes pride in "beating" 1/2 of the old women and lightweights, even though he's 240 pounds or so.  The 47 seconds from the record in his own division don't seem to matter that much.<br /><br />But whatever.<br /><br />If those are the kinds of results you are looking for then go ahead and take his advice. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Where do you get these stats? Near as I can tell, the last time I was logging results online I was well up in the 90th percentile for my category, which makes me "pretty fast, for a girl". <br /><br />You are looking quite foolish in this discussion (well, any discussion really), better to put me back in the "iggie bin" and stop being batted about. I won't ignore you however, it's just too darn entertaining.

[[old] bmoore]

PaulS,<br /><br />Thanks for your advise and discussion on the forum. I've picked up some useful tips for my training.<br /><br />If this thorn in your side thinks you should have the world record in order to discuss training on this forum, then I'd expect that same standard to apply to him. I'd like to see his results as a "Personal and Professional Life Coach/<br />Real Estate Broker, Speaker, Runner", because it appears he feels so bad about his rowing results that he has to modify the results and tear everyone else down to feel better. Just an observation.<br /><br />Regards,