Dwyane Adams - Fake Or Real?

[[old] kinley]

If you're so determined to game the PM3, wouldn't it just be easier to find someone faster than you to row a piece in your name? All of the women's rankings would be vunerable to such a gambit.<br /><br />

[[old] slo_boat]

This entire thread is amusing, or at least it would be if it were not so sad. <br /><br />Here are a few questions for context.<br />Do runners sit around and compare their workouts on treadmills?<br />Do runners claim that their other workouts are competitive events and insist that a tremendous effort in training should go in a record book?<br />Do cyclists seriously contend that their roller races and training stand races are competitions?<br />Do weight lifters claim records based on their training performance in the gym?<br />Does it count when a gymnast performs a routine flawlessly in training?<br />Do swimmers enter their times into the record books when everything falls into place in training and the clock on the side of the pool says they set a record?<br /><br />The answer to every one of those questions is "no."<br /><br />"Indoor Rowing" is a sport still in its infancy. C2 is a vendor that has kindly (for its own purposes) created a framework for informal competition. C2 is not a governing body for the "sport" in any true sense of the word. (However, until there is a governing body, C2 is a fine approximation.) The rankings are simply a collection of individuals' best self-reported efforts. Calling the best self-reported performances records is nice, but nothing in the rankings approaches the standards set by other sports governing bodies.<br /><br />I enjoy the online rankings, and I recognize them for what they are. The honor system works for me.<br /><br />I think that there are a few individuals who have other issues. This happens from time to time. In the rankings it shows up as false entries. In the forum it shows up as threads like this one.<br /><br />Nevertheless, there have been a few good points having to do with standards and verification. Sadly, the people raising the points seem to think that it is up to C2, and they seem to think that it is appropriate to malign other people. It is not. If you want standards and a sanctioning body and recognized records, then quit whining and do something about it. <b>Quit tearing down and start building.</b> <br />

[[old] Chad Williams]

Another result from Dwayne’s past<br />2003 Long Beach Erg Sprints-<br /><br />Dwayne’s time for 2000m 7.00.8<br />

[[old] Chad Williams]

This is what I am trying to do. I need to prove to people that things need to change, I am trying to make people aware of the problems we have at the moment, some people just don’t want to listen.<br /><br />

[[old] gw1]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->surfing rowing web sites </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Chad do you row surf boats? What site are you talking about? GW </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Bump

[[old] slo_boat]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 09:47 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 09:47 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Another result from Dwayne’s past<br />2003 Long Beach Erg Sprints-<br /><br />Dwayne’s time for 2000m 7.00.8 <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Chad,<br /><br />You would have more credibility if you would apply the standards that you are demanding of Dwayne to yourself. You are spending an awful lot of time attacking Dwayne, and it is beginning to appear that you are doing so for some reason other than "truth, justice, and the American way." Your posts say more about you than they could ever hope to say about Dwayne.<br /><br />I don't know Dwayne. What I do know is that he appears likable and supportive of others from his posts on the forum. I have no reason to doubt his integrity.<br /><br />I agree that both Dwayne’s times and his distances are "unbelievable." However, I find a lot of things unbelievable that I know have actually happened. I have even done some things that other people find “unbelievable.” For example, I’ve jumped out of an airplane at 25,000 feet, and I’ve run 50 miles. I’m not inclined to offer you any proof. You are welcome to call me a liar.<br />

[[old] Daren C]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 02:52 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 02:52 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I need to prove to people that things need to change </td></tr></table><br /><br />Feel free to start offering evidence in this case, any time. <br />

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-gw1+Jan 18 2006, 10:10 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Jan 18 2006, 10:10 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->surfing rowing web sites </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Chad do you row surf boats? What site are you talking about? GW </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Bump <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />No, I do not row surf boats.<br /><br />I have been surfing web sites, as in "I am going from 1 web site to another 1"

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-Daren C+Jan 18 2006, 10:16 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Daren C @ Jan 18 2006, 10:16 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 02:52 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 02:52 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I need to prove to people that things need to change </td></tr></table><br /><br />Feel free to start offering evidence in this case, any time. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The case for the defence rests, show me what you got Daren, just a few more one liners I bet.<br /><br />

[[old] slo_boat]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 09:52 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 09:52 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is what I am trying to do. I need to prove to people that things need to change, I am trying to make people aware of the problems we have at the moment, some people just don’t want to listen. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well then, this is what you do. <br /><br />Make your goals clear and work toward those goals.<i> Right now you aren’t making changes; you’re just being an irritant. The only change that people want to see as a result of your whiny posting is for you to go away.</i><br /><br />Begin taking responsibility for the change you want to occur. <i>That means doing something instead of simply complaining that other people are not.</i><br /><br />Propose a set of standards for records.<br /><br />Develop a sanctioning body. <i>This will be a lot of work, but you might be surprised to learn how many people will step forward to help once you begin.</i><br /><br />

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-slo_boat+Jan 18 2006, 10:12 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(slo_boat @ Jan 18 2006, 10:12 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 09:47 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 09:47 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Another result from Dwayne’s past<br />2003 Long Beach Erg Sprints-<br /><br />Dwayne’s time for 2000m 7.00.8 <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Chad,<br /><br />You would have more credibility if you would apply the standards that you are demanding of Dwayne to yourself. You are spending an awful lot of time attacking Dwayne, and it is beginning to appear that you are doing so for some reason other than "truth, justice, and the American way." Your posts say more about you than they could ever hope to say about Dwayne.<br /><br />I don't know Dwayne. What I do know is that he appears likable and supportive of others from his posts on the forum. I have no reason to doubt his integrity.<br /><br />I agree that both Dwayne’s times and his distances are "unbelievable." However, I find a lot of things unbelievable that I know have actually happened. I have even done some things that other people find “unbelievable.” For example, I’ve jumped out of an airplane at 25,000 feet, and I’ve run 50 miles. I’m not inclined to offer you any proof. You are welcome to call me a liar. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Simple. Read very carefully.<br /><br />I WANT DWAYNE TO POST TIMES THAT HE CAN PROVE HE HAS ROWED.<br /><br />Up to here and now he has never proved that he has rowed under 6 minutes for a 2000m. He has however logged a number of sub 5.50 2000m times over the years.<br /><br />LOOK!! In any competition he has never rowed under 7 minutes for a 2000m. YOU DO THE MATH.<br /><br />

[[old] cbrock]

<!--QuoteBegin-slo_boat+Jan 18 2006, 10:39 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(slo_boat @ Jan 18 2006, 10:39 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This entire thread is amusing, or at least it would be if it were not so sad. <br /><br />Here are a few questions for context.<br />Do runners sit around and compare their workouts on treadmills?<br />Do runners claim that their other workouts are competitive events and insist that a tremendous effort in training should go in a record book?<br />Do cyclists seriously contend that their roller races and training stand races are competitions?<br />Do weight lifters claim records based on their training performance in the gym?<br />Does it count when a gymnast performs a routine flawlessly in training?<br />Do swimmers enter their times into the record books when everything falls into place in training and the clock on the side of the pool says they set a record?<br /><br />The answer to every one of those questions is "no."<br /><br />"Indoor Rowing" is a sport still in its infancy. C2 is a vendor that has kindly (for its own purposes) created a framework for informal competition. C2 is not a governing body for the "sport" in any true sense of the word. (However, until there is a governing body, C2 is a fine approximation.) The rankings are simply a collection of individuals' best self-reported efforts. Calling the best self-reported performances records is nice, but nothing in the rankings approaches the standards set by other sports governing bodies.<br /><br />I enjoy the online rankings, and I recognize them for what they are. The honor system works for me.<br /><br />I think that there are a few individuals who have other issues. This happens from time to time. In the rankings it shows up as false entries. In the forum it shows up as threads like this one.<br /><br />Nevertheless, there have been a few good points having to do with standards and verification. Sadly, the people raising the points seem to think that it is up to C2, and they seem to think that it is appropriate to malign other people. It is not. If you want standards and a sanctioning body and recognized records, then quit whining and do something about it. <b>Quit tearing down and start building.</b> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />SloBoat,<br />What disturbs me and I would think a lot of other people is the Concept2 Page on their own site which says "World Records for all Ranking Distances"<br /><br />You are entitled to maimtain the very reasonable view that the "Honour System" and "World Record Ranking" is fine as it stands and is good enough for you.<br /><br />It will never be an issue for you as your times are not in the top percentile of your age group.<br /><br />Myself and others however do not share your view of the current system <br /><br />Whilst I will never get beyond the 50 percentile in the rankings I do feel that the Top Rowers deserve the best system of verification that can be produced.<br /><br />If this means ongoing improvisation and improvement to existing verification methods then I certainly am for that.<br /><br />Short of being a computer programer with access to Concept2 macines and data, I doubt whether an individual has any real capacity to contribute or "improve" what Concept2 is doing. Trade Mark and Copyright issues also arise.<br /><br />As long as Concept2 have World and National Championship events in their name then I would hope that they continue to improve their verification methods accordingly.<br /><br />If the present system is as good as it gets then we can ask no more of them.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris<br />

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-slo_boat+Jan 18 2006, 10:26 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(slo_boat @ Jan 18 2006, 10:26 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Begin taking responsibility for the change you want to occur. <i>That means doing something instead of simply complaining that other people are not.</i><br /><br />Propose a set of standards for records.<br /><br />Develop a sanctioning body. <i>This will be a lot of work, but you might be surprised to learn how many people will step forward to help once you begin.</i> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hello, what do you think I am aiming towards!? People need to first understand what is wrong with the current system, this is what I am doing, pointing out the failings we have now.<br /><br />

[[old] slo_boat]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 10:28 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 10:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Simple. Read very carefully.<br /><br />I WANT DWAYNE TO POST TIMES THAT HE CAN PROVE HE HAS ROWED.<br /><br />Up to here and now he has never proved that he has rowed under 6 minutes for a 2000m. He has however logged a number of sub 5.50 2000m times over the years.<br /><br />LOOK!! In any competition he has never rowed under 7 minutes for a 2000m. YOU DO THE MATH. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You may find a more sympathetic audience if you were not so patronizing. <br />

[[old] PaulH]

Chad,<br /><br />First, Dwayne's 6:03 was confirmed by witnesses to C2's satisfaction. If you don't believe that he did that time, you are saying that those people are liars. That's possible, of course, but your argument from personal incredulity isn't sufficient to question them, though it does cast a shadow over your own sense of honour.<br /><br />Second, the PM3 can be gamed technologically (hacking and other methods) and physically (e.g. having 4 people row consecutive 500m races with very fast changeovers could well get a time below the current 5:37 record). Hence while such a verified time is reliable, it couldn't ever be considered guaranteed.<br /><br />Third, World Records as posted on C2's website aren't necessarily the fastest times ever, they are just the fastest at sanctioned events. This makes sure that C2 knows not only that the time was real, but that conditions were controlled such that there would be no external factors that could have affected the time.<br /><br />Incidentally, I've never met Dwayne, know almost nothing about him, and care even less. But unless someone proves to me that he didn't do the times he claims, and given that he has shown he can do a 6:03 2k, I'll assume he did them. So where's your proof?<br /><br />Respectfully,<br />Paul