What Training Have You Done Today???

[old] GutBustin' · Post by **[old] GutBustin'** » September 21st, 2005, 12:08 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(bmoore @ Sep 21 2005, 11:41 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(PeterWilkinson @ Sep 21 2005, 11:21 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Good guess. Will be aiming for 4X2K @ 1:55, based on 2K PB pace (1:46.2) * 1.08. Last time I tried 4X2K was 8th August with the same target pace. Rowed first two at 1:54.9 and 1:54.8, then slipped to 1:56.8 and 1:58.6 on the third and fourth. Ended up with 31:01.0 @ 1:56.3 average. That was with complete five minute rests in between each interval. Over the last couple of weeks, I have started rowing steady between intervals (after a drink and a stretch), and I find that it is easier to keep the motor ticking over between intervals rather than to stop/start/stop/start as I was before. Definitely enjoying my rowing again these days. When are you going for the sub-7 2K? </td></tr></table> My rest on this is 1.5k on a 2:32 pace. That works out to 7:36 total rest. Mike Caviston recommended these be done on a 15 minute interval, and that's generally what it works out to for me. I'm won't do a 2k time for at least 6 weeks. Although I may be right at the cusp, I want to do the training and let that determine my time. Therefore, I have one or two 4x1k workouts to do before I attempt it again. I want to do a 4x1k with all intervals under 1:44 before I do it. I'm still progressing with my workouts, so I don't see a need to stop and test just yet. This season's training is focused on the performance at the CRASH-Bs so the intermediate testing will be about bumping up my reference pace for all of my workouts. I'm also looking forward to the fall racing series on RowPro. If we do a 2k there, then that may be my next attempt. </td></tr></table> bmoore, so you do a total of 15 minutes for one of the 4x2k? ie, 2k, and then 7:30 or so at 2:32 pace? That last 2k do you still do the active rest afterwards? How about for 4 x 1k, is there an active rest as well? Both of you guys following which plan again? I'm still doing 30 minute rows strapless to try and get my general fitness level higher, although I'm also doing some 20 SPM for 30 minutes strapless as well. Obviously I'll be keen at some point in the next while to switch to an interval based Pete type Plan but was wondering if either of you could provide a little more detail on the schedule you follow so I can get used to this more in my mind? ie, when I take on one of these plans, I don't want to be spending 15 minutes a day trying to figure out what I should be doing for the workout, then being confused about what to do. thanks in advance if you get a chance to respond, gutbustin'

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » September 21st, 2005, 12:30 pm

I'm following the Wolverine Plan from which the Pete Plan is based. (The Pete Plan doesn't have the Level 4 workouts). Sorry for the confusion. I always do active recovery for intervals. For short intervals, the recovery distance is the same as the work distance. So, 8x500 alternates between 500m @ 1:42 and 500m @ 2:32. I finish with a recovery distance. The total distance is therefore 4k. (Check out the Wolverine Plan for discussion around the Level 1 workouts). For medium intervals, the recovery distance is generally 75% of the work distance. So, 4x2k includes 1.5k recoveries. 5x1.5k includes 1,250m recovery. (Again check out the Wolverine Plan discussion). My training week consists of short intervals on Monday and medium intervals on Thursday. Long steady distance on Wednesday and Saturday. Tuesday and Sunday is also long distance, but it's the Wolverine Level 4 workouts which are anything but steady. I also lift on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday. 6 rows, 4 lifts. It's about 115k each week, which doesn't seem as long as it would be if it was just long steady distance. The intervals breaks it up and makes it a lot of fun. I'd really recommend reading the discussion and documents around the Wolverine Plan. Even if you don't adopt this plan, it includes the background information you'd need to intelligently incorporate intervals into your workouts.

[old] PeterWilkinson · Post by **[old] PeterWilkinson** » September 21st, 2005, 12:32 pm

GutBustin, I am doing a modified version of the Pete Plan, basically on a two week rotation. The intervals are always done Mondays and Thursdays: Monday - 8 X 500m/3:30r or 4 X 1K/5:00r Thursday - 4 X 2K/5:00r or 3K-2.5K-2K/5:00r Then I do fairly steady stuff on Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday. This may be a steady 5K, 6K, 30 minutes or 10K at PB pace + 3-5 seconds. Today, just for a change I did the strapless 10K. I just do whatever I feel like doing on the "easy" days, with the focus very much on improving my times on the interval days, because I am training towards the BIRC on 20th November. On Saturdays I attend a rowing class for about an hour, with a mixed group of people who have a wide variety of abilities. We usually row fartlek sets and/or a wide variety of racing formats (usually team races with individual intervals of 500m or less). Men vs women seems popular for the racing, and one week I was the only guy there, so I ended up racing 6 women over 2K, (twice in the same session), with them rowing 250m intervals relay style and me rowing the whole distance. That was fun!?!?!

[old] GutBustin' · Post by **[old] GutBustin'** » September 21st, 2005, 8:06 pm

I appreciate these 2 posts bmoore and peter. It usually takes me quite some time to get my head around some concepts, and the Wolverine Plan is proving to be one of them. It usually comes down to the fact that other people are making references to within the plan quite casually (and for good reason) and it can prove to be confusing. It's not unlike flipping to an episode of Star Trek half way through. Anyway, I've only got 3 months of ergin/working out under my belt and so far the main thing I've discovered is the joy of going strapless. Apart from that, I'm just trying to get in some solid rows at 30 minutes, and also some low stroke rates of 20 SPM. For example, today I did 30 minutes, 20 SPM for 7299 metres. I think I'll be sticking with these types of rows until I naturally reach a limit of some sort, and then look at Wolverine more seriously. I have been reading those posts by Caviston though and it's starting to seep in. Congrats bmoore on busting that 1:49-50 split barrier wide open with some phat 1:46s. Nice one.

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » September 21st, 2005, 9:15 pm

GB, I'm still getting my head around the Level 4 workouts. I just jumped right into the plan in June and made lots of "mistakes", but was actually still getting a decent workout in. I've got a lot more focus now with the Level 1 & 2. Once I established each workout, I was able to start working the times down. I didn't quite have the Level 3 distances down, but now I'm "seeing" how to do long steady distance. That's the initial framework for my plan so far. For now, establish a consistent base of about 50k per week for 8 weeks. You can then make 1 or 2 days interval days and start trying the intervals Peter and I have been discussing. This will bring you into the basic training we're doing. I think you just need to get started and it will become clear what to do with your training. So what are your goals? Still busting the gut? How much more to you want to bust? I lost 30 pounds in 8 weeks between April and June and have transformed my body back into an athlete. (The body fat has been between 10-12% lately). My goals center around being in the best shape possible for the rest of my life, so times, weight, etc, are all just components of a bigger plan. Anyway, all the best wishes with your pursuit of fitness. We're here to help, comiserate, and eventually drink a few beers together at CRASH-B, EIRC, or BIRC one of these days. Time to row...

[old] PeterWilkinson · Post by **[old] PeterWilkinson** » September 22nd, 2005, 4:57 am

GB, When I started rowing in April 2004, I was 245 pounds and 34% bodyfat. I could bench press 300 pounds but I couldn't run for a bus! Today I am under 210 pounds and although I have not had my bodyfat measured recently I would think it must be around 15% or less. I couldn't row further than 5K when I started, and I only finished my first 10K in February this year, with a half marathon in June. So I can relate to your training situation and I would say that as long as you stick with whatever plan works for you, you will see improvement. Consistency is the key. I agree with Bill, do a couple of months of steady rowing to improve your basic fitness and your rowing technique. Strapless rowing definitely helps with technique and I find it quite relaxing so I tend to row all my warmdowns that way. Whenever you're ready, put some interval work in once or twice a week and see how you go. Having looked at the Wolverine and Pete plans, I would say the Pete Plan is the less complicated of the two, and it certainly seems to be working for me, albeit in a slightly modified form. Having been training in some form or another since the late 70's, I find that I never stick strictly to the rules of any published training plan for long. We are all different and one plan (however good it may be) cannot possibly fit everybody all the time. This forum offers excellent advice generally, and you can find the best training plans through it, but not all of the advice will fit your needs. You have to find what works for you, and stick with it.

[old] PeterWilkinson · Post by **[old] PeterWilkinson** » September 22nd, 2005, 10:01 am

2K Warmup @ 2:10ish 4X2K/5:00r - Target pace 1:55: 1. 7:39.3 1:54.8 31 155 2. 7:38.9 1:54.7 31 160 3. 7:38.7 1:54.6 32 161 4. 7:36.0 1:54.0 32 164 Total distance: 9548m (about 500m steady in each rest period). Total time: 30:32.9 @ 1:54.5 average. 31SPM and Max heart rate of 164. 2K Warmdown (strapless) @ 2:15ish Wasn't looking forward to this one. Hamstrings were still tight from yesterday before I started, and I seriously thought about cancelling until tomorrow. I reckon this workout is as much mental as physical, and I'm glad I didn't bottle out now. Training is definitely getting back on track and I'm enjoying my rowing again. Must be getting the hang of this erging game at last...

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » September 22nd, 2005, 11:12 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(PeterWilkinson @ Sep 22 2005, 10:01 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>2K Warmup @ 2:10ish 4X2K/5:00r - Target pace 1:55: 1. 7:39.3 1:54.8 31 155 2. 7:38.9 1:54.7 31 160 3. 7:38.7 1:54.6 32 161 4. 7:36.0 1:54.0 32 164 Total distance: 9548m (about 500m steady in each rest period). Total time: 30:32.9 @ 1:54.5 average. 31SPM and Max heart rate of 164. 2K Warmdown (strapless) @ 2:15ish Wasn't looking forward to this one. Hamstrings were still tight from yesterday before I started, and I seriously thought about cancelling until tomorrow. I reckon this workout is as much mental as physical, and I'm glad I didn't bottle out now. Training is definitely getting back on track and I'm enjoying my rowing again. Must be getting the hang of this erging game at last... </td></tr></table> Great job in getting over the hesitation. You can't cancel these or they'll dig in even further to your psyche. Next time's a 1:54 goal, and you know you can do that. Did you stretch after the warmup? My warmup for these is much longer. 5.5k. The first 10 minutes is getting the body warm. The final 3k includes 250s and 500s of at least the goal pace for the session and even a 1:40 250. This gets the CV system fully opened up. It looks like you also have some room with the HR, so next time shouldn't feel as bad getting started.

[old] PeterWilkinson · Post by **[old] PeterWilkinson** » September 22nd, 2005, 11:44 am

Bill, I train in my lunch-hour, and that includes cycling 2 miles to the gym and 2 miles back to work. Today's routine was 9 minutes warmup, just over 45 minutes for the intervals and 9 minutes warmdown. Training often takes me more than an hour, so I have to make up the time by starting early or working late. Can't afford a longer warmup, although to be fair, I don't feel as if I need one. 2K seems to suit how I train, and I can row it steady or fast, and include bursts if I need to. Tried to stretch the hamstrings after a fairly gentle warmup, but they felt tight as a drum. Decided just to go for it and hope for the best. You're right about not cancelling the session though. I would only have had to do it tomorrow, and that would have impacted on my Saturday rowing class. Had a good week this week. Beat my targets every day, (Monday - 8X500m, Tuesday - 5K + 20 mins on treadmill, Wednesday 10K S10MPS @ 24SPM and today's 4X2K), so if the hamstrings still feel tight tomorrow, I might grant myself a day off from the rowing and do an upper body weights session instead. Will be rowing again on Saturday morning and I am a firm believer in resting when my body tells me to...

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » September 22nd, 2005, 12:22 pm

I forgot you rowed during lunch. I'm working out late at night after putting the kids to bed. Do you get funny looks at the gym when you workout? These machines generally aren't used properly at gyms, although if they have a rowing class people might know what they're doing. When I visited a YMCA in Arizona, a woman commented how it looked like I got a good workout after I finished warming up. 15k later and she thought I was insane. (Maybe so). I'll sometimes "trick" myself into getting started on these workouts by letting myself compromise on the goal pace if I'm not up to it. I did that on Monday with the 4x1k and look what happened. Once I get started, the fuzziness of the day wears off and I'm ready to go. Maybe that's why I do a longer warmup.

[old] PeterWilkinson · Post by **[old] PeterWilkinson** » September 22nd, 2005, 1:03 pm

Usually I am pretty much blinkered in the gym, and don't pay much attention to people training around me. Most of the people I see on the rowing machines seem to do between 100m and 5 minutes as part of their routine. Doesn't seem particularly productive to me, but then most of the people I see doing weights don't have any more idea about what they are doing, or why they are doing it, than the casual rowers do. I do get funny looks when I ask petite girls why they are struggling to row on a damper setting of 10, (presumably they don't realise it is adjustable). To me, they look as if they are going to dislocate their shoulders by pulling really hard on the handles rather than pushing with their legs. How they get off the machines and walk away is astounding sometimes. If I rowed that way I would be crippled in a matter of days. Of course, giving advice from a position of greater knowledge or experience is not always well received, and I have been told to mind my own business, or f**k off, depending on the person. It does bother me that gym staff don't seem to notice bad, and potentially dangerous, technique on rowers and other gym equipment, but I generally don't interfere anymore. I just do my own thing and leave...

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » September 22nd, 2005, 1:14 pm

I was a trainer at a gym and recall the first stairmaster. People immediately started propping themselves up and going too fast. I threw a HR monitor on a few people and showed them how to use the machine without using their hands. Then they got it, and slowed down. I don't think that the employees know how to train on an erg. I was lucky enough to have someone from a crew team in Long Beach show me how on my first use of an erg. It's a shame. Of course, I remember looking at the people on the cross-country ski machines wondering if that was working for them. At least we'll be actually fit and healthy. And have a lot more fun while we're at it.

[old] Citroen · Post by **[old] Citroen** » September 22nd, 2005, 1:16 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(PeterWilkinson @ Sep 22 2005, 06:03 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I do get funny looks when I ask petite girls why they are struggling to row on a damper setting of 10, (presumably they don't realise it is adjustable). To me, they look as if they are going to dislocate their shoulders by pulling really hard on the handles rather than pushing with their legs. How they get off the machines and walk away is astounding sometimes. If I rowed that way I would be crippled in a matter of days. Of course, giving advice from a position of greater knowledge or experience is not always well received, and I have been told to mind my own business, or f**k off, depending on the person. </td></tr></table> I've had some success with that. There's one girl who now rows strapless on damper 3 (strictly we should discuss drag factor rather than damper) as a result of my telling her that her technique was OK but would improve if she tried strapless at a lower drag. Nobody has told me to f*** off, yet.

[old] GutBustin' · Post by **[old] GutBustin'** » September 22nd, 2005, 10:37 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(bmoore @ Sep 21 2005, 09:15 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>So what are your goals? Still busting the gut? How much more to you want to bust? [right] </td></tr></table> LOL Truth be told, I could probably change my moniker to GutTrimmin', or my preference GutBlastin'. It's gone down 4 inches in the 3 months since I started working out. My main goal in terms of the gut is to start working on core strength. Some nice ab crunches, pushups and pullups. I can do about 100 in a row (quality not rushed) of the first, about 50 of the second, and about 2 of the third. (sigh) Thanks for replying both of you guys. I've noticed for example, that you're both sub-19 minute 5kers and sub 23minute 6kers. Both of these distances are some of my more immediate goals in erging. But in general I'm just trying to stay focused on building a solid foundation of fitness that I've never really done before in my life. The 50k a week is a very good angle, although I could see myself being contented with this as an aim for 6 months before switching things up, by including intervals. In the different sorts of challenges I've tried to tackle in my life I find that usually the road is longer and more bumpy than one can imagine, and it's best not to plan too far ahead; just past the next corner suffices til one's done the circuit a few times. But without going on too long, both of your weight loss/getting in shape progress so far is indeed very inspiring. My general goal is to stay injury free and to continue making linear progress. Cutting out smoking and cutting down drinking are more general health goals, but that being said I don't know when was the last time I had been this kind to my body. Specific goals? - 190lbs, 10-12%body fat. - 1000 crunches. 200 pushups in a row. 30 pullups. - Erging a year from now and still loving it. Finally - bmoore, I am THAT guy at the gym who hangs on to the stairclimber (clearly like an idiot) !!!! So, how does one go about using the stairclimber properly? Many thanks, and erg on... I'll try and post some workouts from time to time. Best wishes and thanks again for the responses, GutBustin'

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » September 22nd, 2005, 11:47 pm

GB, Great goals. It's all really a string of "one day at a time"s. I think one key is to give yourself an easy week every four weeks. Too much aggression on goals leads to burnout and giving up. I've done that way too many times. Regarding the Stairmaster, the best technique is to learn without your hands. Just get up there and walk. Swing your hands for balance just like you're walking. You'll find that it will be a lower intensity for the same cardio workout. (Otherwise, you're effectively doing intervals on the thing!) I let my HR be a guide on the Stairmaster until I got a feel for where my fitness was. (I'd check the pulse every 2 minutes and lower the level if it went over a certain rate). Giving up smoking should be a given. I still tried to hold out with my cigars once or twice a year, but I found I had asthma last year and am willing to give cigars up to be here for my kids when I'm 90. (And still erging!) Drinking is something to give up during weight loss, but don't take my Guinness away after a good week of workouts. My wife and I sat in the bar at the Four Seasons last weekend for my birthday talking while I had a few post dinner Scotches. That was nice. Then we went upstairs and watched USC beat the heck out of Arkansas! (I'm a USC alum.) Just let your body be your guide, but make the commitment to be in the best shape possible for the rest of your life, and you'll do the right things. All the best. We'll be here for questions.