<br /><br />-- Mark<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><!--quoteo--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>there is no one best way to erg. Different people have different strengths and should use them. Whatever odd technique allows you to use your strengths to go faster is acceptable on the erg. The point I was making that PaulS seems to want to ignore is that if you are only erging, then you don't care about on water technique. You don't have to easily transition to anything. All you care about is going fast on the erg.<br /><br />I think Ranger might be a good example of this opinion. His form two plus years ago was horrible on water form, but probably just about perfect erg form for him and his talents. Over the past couple of years he has taken up on water rowing and has altered his stroke on the erg to train for proper on water technique. While he hasn't actually performed to prove this, I think he is now slower on the erg because of the new stroke. His attempt to go back to his old faster erg stroke in such a short time was a mistake. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have trained for three years, both on the water and off, to improve my technique and therefore stroking power (given the same effort). Over this time, I have increased my 2K stroking power 2 SPI, or two watts per stroke. At the same rate, 2 SPI, or two watts per stroke, is worth 20 seconds in the 2K.<br /><br />Over the course of the three years, I tried to row as it is recommended that you row on the water, so I assume it was this that, together with my training, brought about this increase in stroking power. In order to race well on the erg, I have made certain modifications in this OTW technique, though. It is an open question whether these modifications will also be productive OTW. My impression is that they probably will not. So even though I have been training diligently and exclusively on the erg to develop a good OTW stroke, I will not use all aspects of this stroke in my racing on the erg. <br /><br />The major advantages of learning good OTW technique involved drag, rate, quickness, timing/sequencing, and length. Many novice ergers, and I was certainly one of these even while I was rowing fast 2Ks on the erg, row at a high drag and rate using a short stroke with a relatively turgid/slow drive that is powered by applying all of the major levers in the rowing stroke (legs, backs, arms) simultaneously. A proper OTW stroke is best learned at low drag and rates, has a quick drive, and sequencess the major levers (legs, back, arms) in very precise and therefore powerful ways. When you get it right, the rowing stroke is more like a whiplash than a weight-lift. This is not at all natural, I think, and therefore it takes quite a while to learn this well.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />Relative to the practice of most novice ergers, a proper OTW stroke is _long_. It is done by using both a full slide and a full finish. In essence, the proper sequencing of levers in the rowing stroke is also an addition of length, albeit of a different sort, not drive length but the length of leverage applied to the handle. Relative to applying all of the levers simultaneously, the sequencing of levers in a proper OTW stroke increases the _action_ and _precise configurrations_ in a rowing stroke. Levers are working, sometimes independently, sometimes in overlapping ways, while cumulative energies are being progressively built up and molded into effective patterns.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />Relative to the practice of most novice ergers, a proper OTW stroke is _long_. It is done by using both a full slide and a full finish. In essence, the proper sequencing of levers in the rowing stroke is also an addition of length, albeit of a different sort, not drive length but the length of leverage applied to the handle. Relative to applying all of the levers simultaneously, the sequencing of levers in a proper OTW stroke increases the _action_ and _precise configurrations_ in a rowing stroke. Levers are working, sometimes independently, sometimes in overlapping ways, while cumulative energies are being progressively built up and molded into effective patterns.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />Relative to the practice of most novice ergers, a proper OTW stroke is _long_. It is done by using both a full slide and a full finish. In essence, the proper sequencing of levers in the rowing stroke is also an addition of length, albeit of a different sort, not drive length but the length of leverage applied to the handle. Relative to applying all of the levers simultaneously, the sequencing of levers in a proper OTW stroke increases the _action_ and _precise configurrations_ in a rowing stroke. Levers are working, sometimes independently, sometimes in overlapping ways, while cumulative energies are being progressively built up and molded into effective patterns.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />Sorry about the multiple postings at the bottom of this last post. I am not used to the new feature that collates posts.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />My weight was a fine 162.1 at the end of yesterday. So rowing as a lightweight at WIRC is now a lock. I will reduce this down to 160 lbs. by the end of my workout on Friday morning and then eat and hydrate back up to a walking around 165 lbs. <br /><br />rangerRanger - News To Shock
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[old] ranger
Competitions
<!--quoteo(post=56748:date=Feb 22 2006, 10:27 AM:name=mpukita)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Feb 22 2006, 10:27 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ranger:<br /><br />Just came across this post whilst doing some research here on strapless rowing:<br /><br /><a href="http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... st&p=55212" target="_blank">http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... 212</a><br /><br />Comments?<br /><br /> <br /><br />-- Mark<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><!--quoteo--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>there is no one best way to erg. Different people have different strengths and should use them. Whatever odd technique allows you to use your strengths to go faster is acceptable on the erg. The point I was making that PaulS seems to want to ignore is that if you are only erging, then you don't care about on water technique. You don't have to easily transition to anything. All you care about is going fast on the erg.<br /><br />I think Ranger might be a good example of this opinion. His form two plus years ago was horrible on water form, but probably just about perfect erg form for him and his talents. Over the past couple of years he has taken up on water rowing and has altered his stroke on the erg to train for proper on water technique. While he hasn't actually performed to prove this, I think he is now slower on the erg because of the new stroke. His attempt to go back to his old faster erg stroke in such a short time was a mistake. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have trained for three years, both on the water and off, to improve my technique and therefore stroking power (given the same effort). Over this time, I have increased my 2K stroking power 2 SPI, or two watts per stroke. At the same rate, 2 SPI, or two watts per stroke, is worth 20 seconds in the 2K.<br /><br />Over the course of the three years, I tried to row as it is recommended that you row on the water, so I assume it was this that, together with my training, brought about this increase in stroking power. In order to race well on the erg, I have made certain modifications in this OTW technique, though. It is an open question whether these modifications will also be productive OTW. My impression is that they probably will not. So even though I have been training diligently and exclusively on the erg to develop a good OTW stroke, I will not use all aspects of this stroke in my racing on the erg. <br /><br />The major advantages of learning good OTW technique involved drag, rate, quickness, timing/sequencing, and length. Many novice ergers, and I was certainly one of these even while I was rowing fast 2Ks on the erg, row at a high drag and rate using a short stroke with a relatively turgid/slow drive that is powered by applying all of the major levers in the rowing stroke (legs, backs, arms) simultaneously. A proper OTW stroke is best learned at low drag and rates, has a quick drive, and sequencess the major levers (legs, back, arms) in very precise and therefore powerful ways. When you get it right, the rowing stroke is more like a whiplash than a weight-lift. This is not at all natural, I think, and therefore it takes quite a while to learn this well.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />Relative to the practice of most novice ergers, a proper OTW stroke is _long_. It is done by using both a full slide and a full finish. In essence, the proper sequencing of levers in the rowing stroke is also an addition of length, albeit of a different sort, not drive length but the length of leverage applied to the handle. Relative to applying all of the levers simultaneously, the sequencing of levers in a proper OTW stroke increases the _action_ and _precise configurrations_ in a rowing stroke. Levers are working, sometimes independently, sometimes in overlapping ways, while cumulative energies are being progressively built up and molded into effective patterns.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />Relative to the practice of most novice ergers, a proper OTW stroke is _long_. It is done by using both a full slide and a full finish. In essence, the proper sequencing of levers in the rowing stroke is also an addition of length, albeit of a different sort, not drive length but the length of leverage applied to the handle. Relative to applying all of the levers simultaneously, the sequencing of levers in a proper OTW stroke increases the _action_ and _precise configurrations_ in a rowing stroke. Levers are working, sometimes independently, sometimes in overlapping ways, while cumulative energies are being progressively built up and molded into effective patterns.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />Relative to the practice of most novice ergers, a proper OTW stroke is _long_. It is done by using both a full slide and a full finish. In essence, the proper sequencing of levers in the rowing stroke is also an addition of length, albeit of a different sort, not drive length but the length of leverage applied to the handle. Relative to applying all of the levers simultaneously, the sequencing of levers in a proper OTW stroke increases the _action_ and _precise configurrations_ in a rowing stroke. Levers are working, sometimes independently, sometimes in overlapping ways, while cumulative energies are being progressively built up and molded into effective patterns.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />Sorry about the multiple postings at the bottom of this last post. I am not used to the new feature that collates posts.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />My weight was a fine 162.1 at the end of yesterday. So rowing as a lightweight at WIRC is now a lock. I will reduce this down to 160 lbs. by the end of my workout on Friday morning and then eat and hydrate back up to a walking around 165 lbs. <br /><br />ranger
<br /><br />-- Mark<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><!--quoteo--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>there is no one best way to erg. Different people have different strengths and should use them. Whatever odd technique allows you to use your strengths to go faster is acceptable on the erg. The point I was making that PaulS seems to want to ignore is that if you are only erging, then you don't care about on water technique. You don't have to easily transition to anything. All you care about is going fast on the erg.<br /><br />I think Ranger might be a good example of this opinion. His form two plus years ago was horrible on water form, but probably just about perfect erg form for him and his talents. Over the past couple of years he has taken up on water rowing and has altered his stroke on the erg to train for proper on water technique. While he hasn't actually performed to prove this, I think he is now slower on the erg because of the new stroke. His attempt to go back to his old faster erg stroke in such a short time was a mistake. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have trained for three years, both on the water and off, to improve my technique and therefore stroking power (given the same effort). Over this time, I have increased my 2K stroking power 2 SPI, or two watts per stroke. At the same rate, 2 SPI, or two watts per stroke, is worth 20 seconds in the 2K.<br /><br />Over the course of the three years, I tried to row as it is recommended that you row on the water, so I assume it was this that, together with my training, brought about this increase in stroking power. In order to race well on the erg, I have made certain modifications in this OTW technique, though. It is an open question whether these modifications will also be productive OTW. My impression is that they probably will not. So even though I have been training diligently and exclusively on the erg to develop a good OTW stroke, I will not use all aspects of this stroke in my racing on the erg. <br /><br />The major advantages of learning good OTW technique involved drag, rate, quickness, timing/sequencing, and length. Many novice ergers, and I was certainly one of these even while I was rowing fast 2Ks on the erg, row at a high drag and rate using a short stroke with a relatively turgid/slow drive that is powered by applying all of the major levers in the rowing stroke (legs, backs, arms) simultaneously. A proper OTW stroke is best learned at low drag and rates, has a quick drive, and sequencess the major levers (legs, back, arms) in very precise and therefore powerful ways. When you get it right, the rowing stroke is more like a whiplash than a weight-lift. This is not at all natural, I think, and therefore it takes quite a while to learn this well.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />Relative to the practice of most novice ergers, a proper OTW stroke is _long_. It is done by using both a full slide and a full finish. In essence, the proper sequencing of levers in the rowing stroke is also an addition of length, albeit of a different sort, not drive length but the length of leverage applied to the handle. Relative to applying all of the levers simultaneously, the sequencing of levers in a proper OTW stroke increases the _action_ and _precise configurrations_ in a rowing stroke. Levers are working, sometimes independently, sometimes in overlapping ways, while cumulative energies are being progressively built up and molded into effective patterns.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />Relative to the practice of most novice ergers, a proper OTW stroke is _long_. It is done by using both a full slide and a full finish. In essence, the proper sequencing of levers in the rowing stroke is also an addition of length, albeit of a different sort, not drive length but the length of leverage applied to the handle. Relative to applying all of the levers simultaneously, the sequencing of levers in a proper OTW stroke increases the _action_ and _precise configurrations_ in a rowing stroke. Levers are working, sometimes independently, sometimes in overlapping ways, while cumulative energies are being progressively built up and molded into effective patterns.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />Relative to the practice of most novice ergers, a proper OTW stroke is _long_. It is done by using both a full slide and a full finish. In essence, the proper sequencing of levers in the rowing stroke is also an addition of length, albeit of a different sort, not drive length but the length of leverage applied to the handle. Relative to applying all of the levers simultaneously, the sequencing of levers in a proper OTW stroke increases the _action_ and _precise configurrations_ in a rowing stroke. Levers are working, sometimes independently, sometimes in overlapping ways, while cumulative energies are being progressively built up and molded into effective patterns.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />Sorry about the multiple postings at the bottom of this last post. I am not used to the new feature that collates posts.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />My weight was a fine 162.1 at the end of yesterday. So rowing as a lightweight at WIRC is now a lock. I will reduce this down to 160 lbs. by the end of my workout on Friday morning and then eat and hydrate back up to a walking around 165 lbs. <br /><br />ranger-
[old] mpukita
Competitions
Ranger:<br /><br />I gave you a fat old fastball chest-high and right over the plate with my last post, just so you could hit it out of the park and get things re-started over here.<br /><br />You're welcome!<br /><br /> 
<br /><br />Best wishes for a great row in Boston ... Mark
<br /><br />Best wishes for a great row in Boston ... Mark-
[old] ranger
Competitions
<!--quoteo--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quotec-->Best wishes for a great row in Boston ... Mark </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks, Mark. <br /><br />ranger
Competitions
11 Rich Cureton Satellite Qualifier 55 7:04.3 <br /><br />What happened?
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[old] Alissa
- Posts: 0
- Joined: March 18th, 2006, 10:32 pm
Competitions
<!--quoteo(post=57118:date=Feb 25 2006, 11:37 AM:name=gw1)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Feb 25 2006, 11:37 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>11 Rich Cureton Satellite Qualifier 55 7:04.3 <br /><br />What happened?<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />He weighed in as a LW, but it didn't go as well as he had hoped. I posted a picture of him in another thread.<br /><br />Alissa
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[old] H_2O
- Posts: 0
- Joined: March 18th, 2006, 10:32 pm
Competitions
<!--quoteo(post=57119:date=Feb 25 2006, 02:40 PM:name=Alissa)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Alissa @ Feb 25 2006, 02:40 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I posted a picture of him in another thread.<br /><br />Alissa<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Where?<br />
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[old] Alissa
- Posts: 0
- Joined: March 18th, 2006, 10:32 pm
Competitions
<!--quoteo(post=57142:date=Feb 25 2006, 02:00 PM:name=H_2O)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(H_2O @ Feb 25 2006, 02:00 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quoteo(post=57119:date=Feb 25 2006, 02:40 PM:name=Alissa)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Alissa @ Feb 25 2006, 02:40 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I posted a picture of him in another thread.<br /><br />Alissa<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Where?<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry. <a href="http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... st&p=57116" target="_blank">here</a>--along w/ some other photos.<br /><br />Alissa
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[old] ljwagner
- Posts: 0
- Joined: March 18th, 2006, 10:32 pm
Competitions
<!--quoteo--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>"No one best way to erg" ?<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Um shouldn't rowing, machine or on the water, be about how to make a boat go fast, since the erg is not just a trainer, but something of a simulator ? A technique that would be highly inefficient on the water is allowed in an erg competiton ?<br /><br />