Dwyane Adams - Fake Or Real?

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 18th, 2006, 2:27 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 17 2006, 05:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I donated the PM3 that was given to me to the gym I go to. I did that when I first got the thing. I still use my PM2+ at home.<br /><br />FYI - I went through the first 1000 names or so on the 40-49 2k rankings, and couldn't even find this Chad fella. So who is he to question me anyway. It would be different if it was Graham or Nik or someone of that caliber. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Dwayne<br />So there is nothing stopping you using your PM3 IND_V code then? As you said that you donated it to the gym YOU use. I don’t see how that changes anything; you still have access to the correct ranking equipment but choose to rank workouts by other means.<br /><br />You will not find me on the ranking system, as you know it is an honor system, I will not take part in a system that has problems with the way ranking times are posted. If you could provide proof of your top times and distance by way of sending a verification code to c2bill then you will see me in the rankings.<br /><br />

[old] rows2slow · Post by **[old] rows2slow** » January 18th, 2006, 2:34 am

<br /><br /><b>Real</b>.<br />That's all the time I want to spend on that thought.<br /><br /><br /><br />

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 18th, 2006, 2:52 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(rows2slow @ Jan 18 2006, 01:34 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><b>Real</b> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Fantastic, so you are going to backup your statement with........ what exactly?<br /><br />

[old] cbrock · Post by **[old] cbrock** » January 18th, 2006, 4:13 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 02:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 17 2006, 05:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I donated the PM3 that was given to me to the gym I go to. I did that when I first got the thing. I still use my PM2+ at home.<br /><br />FYI - I went through the first 1000 names or so on the 40-49 2k rankings, and couldn't even find this Chad fella. So who is he to question me anyway. It would be different if it was Graham or Nik or someone of that caliber. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Dwayne<br />So there is nothing stopping you using your PM3 IND_V code then? As you said that you donated it to the gym YOU use. I don’t see how that changes anything; you still have access to the correct ranking equipment but choose to rank workouts by other means.<br /><br />You will not find me on the ranking system, as you know it is an honor system, I will not take part in a system that has problems with the way ranking times are posted. If you could provide proof of your top times and distance by way of sending a verification code to c2bill then you will see me in the rankings. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Chad,<br />I stand to be corrected here but the verification system seems also to be an honour system, because the distance does not have to be rowed without stopping.<br /><br />You can do an interval workout which equals the approved distance (eg: 10 X 1k) and have that time confirmed as a bona-fide 10k.<br /><br />I assume that this also applies to the other distances.<br /><br />It is disappointing because I like you thought this was a great method of "verifying" that at least the time claimed was rowed.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 18th, 2006, 4:41 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(cbrock @ Jan 18 2006, 03:13 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Chad,<br />I stand to be corrected here but the verification system seems also to be an honour system, because the distance does not have to be rowed without stopping.<br /><br />You can do an interval workout which equals the approved distance (eg: 10 X 1k) and have that time confirmed as a bona-fide 10k.<br /><br />I assume that this also applies to the other distances.<br /><br />It is disappointing because I like you thought this was a great method of "verifying" that at least the time claimed was rowed.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Chris, this is a very interesting issue. I was unaware of this, thank you for brining it up, maybe C2 can confirm this is the case? <br /><br />

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 18th, 2006, 5:02 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 17 2006, 05:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>It would be different if it was Graham or Nik or someone of that caliber. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />So are you saying that the points I have been making would hold more weight if either Nik or Graham made them? Why should it make any difference?<br /><br />

[old] Andrew Burrows · Post by **[old] Andrew Burrows** » January 18th, 2006, 7:03 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DavidA @ Jan 17 2006, 07:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> While he may not have a time that was IND_Ved with a PM3, he certainly has had a WR time observed by a USIRT official. According to C2's rules for world records that couldn't be counted as a world record, but I certainly think that for almost everyone that was sufficient enough proof of his abililties, and the credibilty of the times he posts. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Just a quick question, has anyone at C2 confirmed this or has it just been accepted that it happened as Dwayne said it did?

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 18th, 2006, 8:14 am

Another public race that Dwayne had entered in San Diego February 2003 and another DNF.<br /><br />Masters Men (30-39)<br />1st Scholl, Shawn Colorado - 5:59.3<br />2nd Geall, Andy San - 6:32.5<br />3rd Kogut, Greg - 6:35.8<br />4th Irza, Jude - 6:38.7<br />5th Kelly, Patrick - 6:52.2<br />6th Grenier, Andrew - 7:01.4<br />7th Phelan, Thomas - DNS<br /><b>7th Adams, Dwayne US Indoor Rowing Team - DNF</b><br /><br />Has anyone seen him row in public?<br />

[old] Delilah · Post by **[old] Delilah** » January 18th, 2006, 8:16 am

Some while ago I asked whether the forum (US) had views on (or even better definite information about) Rod Freed. I had always assumed the times were totally above reproach (I read it in the UK C2 newsletter - perhaps I'm a bit gullible) Anyway I think the general concensus was that there were a few glaring anomalies between his 2K time and his amazing distance times and he had never raced etc. SO....probably fake.<br /><br />Fair enough....for reasons unknown I am still inclined to believe but perhaps that's just me sticking with an entrenched position.<br /><br />However, if I had been able to read this thread first I would never have asked for fear of being accused of everything short of devouring my young! It seems to me that it's a perfectly reasonable question and apart from Chad's obvious right to ask I don't think he has been guilty of any sort of savage condemnation of Mr A.<br /><br />So for what it's worth.<br />I don't think there is any real likelyhood that a world class rower would also want to invent a series of performances that take him from world class to world #1. The chances that our Walter Mitty 5:47 man is also a genuine 6:03 rower seem to be stretching coincidence way too far. <br />I therefore assumed that since there was a 6:03 done at some official trials he was the genuine article.<br />BUT if I am reading this right I think there may even be some doubt about this and I have to say I would start to be very doubtful if there were no rows at all - even if in contrast to 5:47 they were not 'top-drawer.<br />There are two things that cause me some real concern - and not the time itself - I feel the time is possible for a 40 year old. .........Fabulous but not impossible.<br />1. Leading the metres board requires a phenomenal volume given that there are many ergers who concentrate on distance solely without regard to pace. For a super-elite rower who clearly must also major on quality to lead the board is astonishing and more than a little surprising.<br />2. If I put myself in Dwaynes position I would be rushing (would already have rushed) to do a witnessed time that put matters beyond doubt. It could be a 500M sub 1:16 or a 2K in the region of 6:00 - not necessrily absolutely on the limits - just good enough to show that he is the real deal and not a complete fraud. I suspect most of you would do the same?<br />D

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 18th, 2006, 8:30 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Andrew Burrows @ Jan 18 2006, 06:03 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DavidA @ Jan 17 2006, 07:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> While he may not have a time that was IND_Ved with a PM3, he certainly has had a WR time observed by a USIRT official. According to C2's rules for world records that couldn't be counted as a world record, but I certainly think that for almost everyone that was sufficient enough proof of his abililties, and the credibilty of the times he posts. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Just a quick question, has anyone at C2 confirmed this or has it just been accepted that it happened as Dwayne said it did? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Andrew<br />I have a feeling that Dwayne’s name alone carried a lot of power in the sport, very few people have ever questioned a row or record Dwayne has rowed.<br /><br />Unfortunately, C2 may have also fallen in with this, but are now working on ways to improve the ranking system by using the IND_V. It is still early days yet, but a step in the right direction.<br />

[old] cbrock · Post by **[old] cbrock** » January 18th, 2006, 8:48 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 08:30 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Andrew Burrows @ Jan 18 2006, 06:03 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DavidA @ Jan 17 2006, 07:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> While he may not have a time that was IND_Ved with a PM3, he certainly has had a WR time observed by a USIRT official. According to C2's rules for world records that couldn't be counted as a world record, but I certainly think that for almost everyone that was sufficient enough proof of his abililties, and the credibilty of the times he posts. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Just a quick question, has anyone at C2 confirmed this or has it just been accepted that it happened as Dwayne said it did? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Andrew<br />I have a feeling that Dwayne’s name alone carried a lot of power in the sport, very few people have ever questioned a row or record Dwayne has rowed.<br /><br />Unfortunately, C2 may have also fallen in with this, but are now working on ways to improve the ranking system by using the IND_V. It is still early days yet, but a step in the right direction. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />

[old] hjs · Post by **[old] hjs** » January 18th, 2006, 8:51 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Delilah @ Jan 18 2006, 01:16 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Some while ago I asked whether the forum (US) had views on (or even better definite information about) Rod Freed. I had always assumed the times were totally above reproach (I read it in the UK C2 newsletter - perhaps I'm a bit gullible) Anyway I think the general concensus was that there were a few glaring anomalies between his 2K time and his amazing distance times and he had never raced etc. SO....probably fake.<br /><br />Fair enough....for reasons unknown I am still inclined to believe but perhaps that's just me sticking with an entrenched position.<br /><br />However, if I had been able to read this thread first I would never have asked for fear of being accused of everything short of devouring my young! It seems to me that it's a perfectly reasonable question and apart from Chad's obvious right to ask I don't think he has been guilty of any sort of savage condemnation of Mr A.<br /><br />So for what it's worth.<br />I don't think there is any real likelyhood that a world class rower would also want to invent a series of performances that take him from world class to world #1. The chances that our Walter Mitty 5:47 man is also a genuine 6:03 rower seem to be stretching coincidence way too far. <br />I therefore assumed that since there was a 6:03 done at some official trials he was the genuine article.<br />BUT if I am reading this right I think there may even be some doubt about this and I have to say I would start to be very doubtful if there were no rows at all - even if in contrast to 5:47 they were not 'top-drawer.<br />There are two things that cause me some real concern - and not the time itself - I feel the time is possible for a 40 year old. .........Fabulous but not impossible.<br />1. Leading the metres board requires a phenomenal volume given that there are many ergers who concentrate on distance solely without regard to pace. For a super-elite rower who clearly must also major on quality to lead the board is astonishing and more than a little surprising.<br />2. If I put myself in Dwaynes position I would be rushing (would already have rushed) to do a witnessed time that put matters beyond doubt. It could be a 500M sub 1:16 or a 2K in the region of 6:00 - not necessrily absolutely on the limits - just good enough to show that he is the real deal and not a complete fraud. I suspect most of you would do the same?<br />D <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I agree totally. 1 fast witnessed race no matter what distance and al doubt is gone. <br />Another point. He also trains in a public gym, so there must be people who see him doing workouts. Even that is enough for me. The quistions keep on adding up. <br />

[old] cbrock · Post by **[old] cbrock** » January 18th, 2006, 8:55 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(cbrock @ Jan 18 2006, 08:48 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 08:30 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Andrew Burrows @ Jan 18 2006, 06:03 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DavidA @ Jan 17 2006, 07:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> While he may not have a time that was IND_Ved with a PM3, he certainly has had a WR time observed by a USIRT official. According to C2's rules for world records that couldn't be counted as a world record, but I certainly think that for almost everyone that was sufficient enough proof of his abililties, and the credibilty of the times he posts. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Just a quick question, has anyone at C2 confirmed this or has it just been accepted that it happened as Dwayne said it did? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Andrew<br />I have a feeling that Dwayne’s name alone carried a lot of power in the sport, very few people have ever questioned a row or record Dwayne has rowed.<br /><br />Unfortunately, C2 may have also fallen in with this, but are now working on ways to improve the ranking system by using the IND_V. It is still early days yet, but a step in the right direction. <br /> </td></tr></table> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Chad,<br />It is only a step in the right direction if it improves upon the previous position.<br /><br />As I said before the system cannot differentiate between distance rowed in intervals and an unbroken row.<br /><br />Therefore until they fix this bug the system will continue to be flawed and will offer no greater amount of authenticity than the "honour system"<br /><br />I hope they fix this ASAP.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » January 18th, 2006, 9:06 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(cbrock @ Jan 18 2006, 08:13 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 02:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 17 2006, 05:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I donated the PM3 that was given to me to the gym I go to. I did that when I first got the thing. I still use my PM2+ at home.<br /><br />FYI - I went through the first 1000 names or so on the 40-49 2k rankings, and couldn't even find this Chad fella. So who is he to question me anyway. It would be different if it was Graham or Nik or someone of that caliber. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Dwayne<br />So there is nothing stopping you using your PM3 IND_V code then? As you said that you donated it to the gym YOU use. I don’t see how that changes anything; you still have access to the correct ranking equipment but choose to rank workouts by other means.<br /><br />You will not find me on the ranking system, as you know it is an honor system, I will not take part in a system that has problems with the way ranking times are posted. If you could provide proof of your top times and distance by way of sending a verification code to c2bill then you will see me in the rankings. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Chad,<br />I stand to be corrected here but the verification system seems also to be an honour system, because the distance does not have to be rowed without stopping.<br /><br />You can do an interval workout which equals the approved distance (eg: 10 X 1k) and have that time confirmed as a bona-fide 10k.<br /><br />I assume that this also applies to the other distances.<br /><br />It is disappointing because I like you thought this was a great method of "verifying" that at least the time claimed was rowed.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That may be true, but the rest time would be added into the interval times and you'd end up with a pretty slow 10K, wouldn't you? At least I think that's how it works.

[old] cbrock · Post by **[old] cbrock** » January 18th, 2006, 9:43 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(seat5 @ Jan 18 2006, 09:06 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(cbrock @ Jan 18 2006, 08:13 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 02:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 17 2006, 05:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I donated the PM3 that was given to me to the gym I go to. I did that when I first got the thing. I still use my PM2+ at home.<br /><br />FYI - I went through the first 1000 names or so on the 40-49 2k rankings, and couldn't even find this Chad fella. So who is he to question me anyway. It would be different if it was Graham or Nik or someone of that caliber. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Dwayne<br />So there is nothing stopping you using your PM3 IND_V code then? As you said that you donated it to the gym YOU use. I don’t see how that changes anything; you still have access to the correct ranking equipment but choose to rank workouts by other means.<br /><br />You will not find me on the ranking system, as you know it is an honor system, I will not take part in a system that has problems with the way ranking times are posted. If you could provide proof of your top times and distance by way of sending a verification code to c2bill then you will see me in the rankings. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Chad,<br />I stand to be corrected here but the verification system seems also to be an honour system, because the distance does not have to be rowed without stopping.<br /><br />You can do an interval workout which equals the approved distance (eg: 10 X 1k) and have that time confirmed as a bona-fide 10k.<br /><br />I assume that this also applies to the other distances.<br /><br />It is disappointing because I like you thought this was a great method of "verifying" that at least the time claimed was rowed.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That may be true, but the rest time would be added into the interval times and you'd end up with a pretty slow 10K, wouldn't you? At least I think that's how it works. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Carla,<br />Unfortunately that is not the case.<br /><br />The final time measures your intervals and the time taken cumulatively for those intervals and excludes the rest period.<br /><br />I discovered this bug by chance recently when I inadvertantly verified an interval workout rather than the timed 10k piece I had rowed a couple of days earlier.<br /><br />I realised then that if you could verify an interval workout over a recognised distance that the system would not be able to differentiate between an uninterupted distance and an interval distance.<br /><br />This is most disappointing. I hope that C2 can write a program to fix ASAP<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris<br /><br /><br />

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Dwyane Adams - Fake Or Real?

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