Training Program For Long Beach Sprints And Crashb

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 4th, 2006, 1:25 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chris-lbc @ Jan 3 2006, 09:42 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Xeno, using your target heart I should be training at 181 that seems a bit high should I train this high. What sort of margin either side of this can I have. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />[ 181 - 65 ] / [ 210 - 65 ] = 116 / 145 = 80%<br /><br />In your case, a HR of 181 is 80% of your heart rate reserve.<br /><br />

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » January 4th, 2006, 6:11 pm

Xeno,<br /><br />What's the purpose of the 15 seconds on, 15 seconds off workouts?<br />Is the purpose to develop control under high stroke rates?<br /><br />I don't like intervals that short.<br />It is hard to settle into a rhythm.<br /><br />Likewise what is the purpose of 4 times 250 max sprint?<br /><br />Thanks<br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 4th, 2006, 7:35 pm

I've done 20x 12s on/off a few times, i.e. 4 minutes fast in 8 minutes.<br /><br />More recently I have broken them up into 2 sets and might make them 4 sets of 5.<br /><br />This is because I get warmed up more with each set.<br /><br />They get me breathing hard very quickly but aren't fatiguing like longer repetitions would be. So this might be one purpose of them. However, they are close to 500m pace, and thus might not have much relation to a 2k.

[old] Chris-lbc · Post by **[old] Chris-lbc** » January 5th, 2006, 11:33 am

Hi Chris,<br />How old are you?<br />How much do you weigh?<br />I know of lightweight athletes who have their target heart rate in the 160ies. Where do you live? A lactate test is simple. For any person who works out the 2mmol aerobic threshold is of importance. By knowing this threshold a person can then choose what type of training they want to do. Aerobic far outweighs the anaerobic training time, when the goal is to train the body to become more oxygene efficient. <br />I look forward to your answers.<br />XENO <br />[/quote]<br /><br />I'm 19, I weigh 71kg (158lb) and i'm 5'10. I live near Oxford. I use erging as training for rowing. I have only just got a heart rate monitor. I was very surprised how slow I have to go to keep my heart rate even at 175. Splits were 15 seconds higher than PB for an hour.<br />Thanks for the help.

[old] Byron Drachman · Post by **[old] Byron Drachman** » January 5th, 2006, 1:02 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>And finally, listen to your body. A training program is not set in stone </td></tr></table> <br /><br />Today is supposed to be an off day. <br /><br />I know from cycling years ago that if I was supposed to take a day off that I was better off taking a long fast walk doing a lot of eating and drinking, rather than completely resting, or else doing a very slow bike ride for an hour or two, again eating and drinking a lot. This was especially important if I was feeling tired and rundown. Similarly I've noticed that if I'm tired from rowing or erging hard a bunch of days in a row, that I'll recover faster if I do a very easy paddle rather than doing nothing. <br /><br />I felt tired this morning so I did a nice easy 15K with little breaks for eating and drinking, hardly breaking a sweat. Ah, that feels better. I'm ready for tomorrow's workout now.<br /><br />Byron

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » January 5th, 2006, 3:44 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Xeno @ Dec 30 2005, 05:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Training Program 2K sprint CRASH B LONG BEACH, CRASH B BOSTON on Feb 4th & 25th (XENO MULLER)<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Xeno,<br /><br />A big thanks for the plan, and a few questions, if you will (or anyone else obviously).<br />- I don't see any boldface dates that you mentioned for the workouts you would prioritize (for lower mileage people).<br />- Are the steady states always the priority, like you mention for those feeling tired?<br />- I have always heard that with a short time left to race day, that lower mileage and higher intensity was the proper strategy. Agree?<br />- I have a particular problem, which has happened for a couple years now. I increase intensity and volume a few months ahead of race day (but I'm in good shape anyway from year round competitive rowing), and at paces not exceeding prior record pace, once or twice per week, with lots of other steady state. But after just two or three weeks, my performance craters. Obviously I'm overdoing it in some sense, but it seems too fast of a burnout to fit textbook "overtraining". So now I've cut and cut goal paces and taken lots of time off, but have also shot a whole month getting to a marginal position. Does this happen to anyone else? What's the best tip for recovery and race survival? My choices seem to be only to either overtrain or detrain, neither of which are the desired plan.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Doug

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 5th, 2006, 5:44 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Byron Drachman @ Jan 5 2006, 09:02 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I felt tired this morning so I did a nice easy 15K with little breaks for eating and drinking </td></tr></table><br /><br />I felt great yesterday and had planned a good session this morning but felt ragged from the start, so started taking it easy after 54 minutes. Also my pace was 2 or 3 seconds slower than four days ago and didn't feel comfortable. They were spraying a lot of chemtrails yesterday so perhaps that is the reason.<br /><br />I'm going to go easy tomorrow then finish the session when feeling stronger again.<br />

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » January 7th, 2006, 9:53 pm

Hi Everyone.<br />I just got back from the mountains.<br />Let me look at the posts and the questions.<br />Read you later.<br />XENO

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » January 8th, 2006, 12:22 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(H_2O @ Jan 4 2006, 03:11 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Xeno,<br /><br />What's the purpose of the 15 seconds on, 15 seconds off workouts?<br />Is the purpose to develop control under high stroke rates?<br /><br />I don't like intervals that short.<br />It is hard to settle into a rhythm.<br /><br />Likewise what is the purpose of 4 times 250 max sprint?<br /><br />Thanks <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi H2O<br />The beauty about the 15 on and off is that you get to push high ratings without getting too much into oxygene deprivation. The lactate levels stay "low".<br />These short bursts are beneficial to train the neuromuscular system for high rating. Amazingly, once you are done with the workout you will have taken at least 2k worth of strokes. I did not look to settle into a rhythm. After all the long miles, it is a great power workout, which can be done without "hurting" the aerobic capacity.<br /><br />The 250m are pure lactic acid. The goal was to do those spurts while keeping proper rowing technique.<br /><br />Also, I used to end every fourth steady state workout by pushing hard one minute in form of a stroke rate increas 20 seconds at a time, before cooling down. Early in winter the rates were lower. By the time of summer I would start out at 34 and top out at 44, the rowing was not pretty anymore at that high rating. My boat builder used to say: "The last 250, you need to push hard with the determination to break the boat." In 1996 it worked, I mean winning the Olympics, the boat stayed in one piece, rock solid.<br /><br />XENO

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » January 8th, 2006, 12:46 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Jan 5 2006, 12:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Xeno @ Dec 30 2005, 05:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Training Program 2K sprint CRASH B LONG BEACH, CRASH B BOSTON on Feb 4th & 25th (XENO MULLER)<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Xeno,<br /><br />A big thanks for the plan, and a few questions, if you will (or anyone else obviously).<br />- I don't see any boldface dates that you mentioned for the workouts you would prioritize (for lower mileage people).<br />- Are the steady states always the priority, like you mention for those feeling tired?<br />- I have always heard that with a short time left to race day, that lower mileage and higher intensity was the proper strategy. Agree?<br />- I have a particular problem, which has happened for a couple years now. I increase intensity and volume a few months ahead of race day (but I'm in good shape anyway from year round competitive rowing), and at paces not exceeding prior record pace, once or twice per week, with lots of other steady state. But after just two or three weeks, my performance craters. Obviously I'm overdoing it in some sense, but it seems too fast of a burnout to fit textbook "overtraining". So now I've cut and cut goal paces and taken lots of time off, but have also shot a whole month getting to a marginal position. Does this happen to anyone else? What's the best tip for recovery and race survival? My choices seem to be only to either overtrain or detrain, neither of which are the desired plan.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Doug <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Doug<br />Let me go back and work on the bold print. I pasted a word doc and it did not carry over.<br />Steady state is crucial for either developing the aerobic capacity, OR compensating for a hard workout. Some national teams end up fizzling out by the world championship. Not necessarily because of overtraining, but by undertraining their aerobic capacity. Now reflecting back, opposition dropped off in stages. Those with lack of technique would drop after five hundred meters, using too much power to keep up. At a thousand meters it became a lack of aerobic conditiong (combinationof power to weight ratio). At 1500 meters it was the separation of the top people and the finalists, still a cause of who had lower lactic accumulation. In the final 250 it came down to whom had more left until the lacatate max levels. There is a bunch of psychological hurdles to deal with too, but that we can talk about some time in the future.<br />Less volume more intensity in order to prepare for a final championship is right. At the Olympic level you still train around 2 to 2.5 hours per day in the final stages. I truely lucked out in 2000 by walking away with a medal. All week long I had cold symptoms. My heart rate would not cool down after the semi, two days before the final. The cause to my silver medal was due to the fact that I was the fittest I have ever been. Occasionally I think about the outcome had I been a solid 100% in health. Such is sport however. My challenge now is to develop indoor rowing so that i can go on vacation worry free. Man! of topic again.<br />Your last question is interesting. Lactic acid cuts down your aerobic condition. It is the aerobic condition that slows the increase of lactic acid during a race. Are you going to compete this CRASH B? Are you following this plan? What do you mean with paces not exceeding other record pace? If you look at the program I do not push sprints regularly. I can help you further if I know more detail.<br />All the best,<br />XENO

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » January 8th, 2006, 12:49 am

[quote=Chris-lbc,Jan 5 2006, 08:33 AM]<br />Hi Chris,<br />How old are you?<br />How much do you weigh?<br />I know of lightweight athletes who have their target heart rate in the 160ies. Where do you live? A lactate test is simple. For any person who works out the 2mmol aerobic threshold is of importance. By knowing this threshold a person can then choose what type of training they want to do. Aerobic far outweighs the anaerobic training time, when the goal is to train the body to become more oxygene efficient. <br />I look forward to your answers.<br />XENO <br />[/quote]<br /><br />I'm 19, I weigh 71kg (158lb) and i'm 5'10. I live near Oxford. I use erging as training for rowing. I have only just got a heart rate monitor. I was very surprised how slow I have to go to keep my heart rate even at 175. Splits were 15 seconds higher than PB for an hour.<br />Thanks for the help. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Young and leightweight! Your steady state heart rate might be quite high.<br />Hey, there must be a lactate pro laying around at Oxford. Talk to your coach. You won't know exactly until you blood check.<br />XENO

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » January 8th, 2006, 12:59 am

I changed the important stull into bold.

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » January 8th, 2006, 1:37 pm

Xeno--<br /><br />You wrote: "Lactic acid cuts down your aerobic condition."<br /><br />Could you explain that statement a bit?<br /><br />Are you talking about the effect of a build-up of lactic acid during a training session? Or are you taling about the residual, ongoing affect of lactic acid in one's system? Or something else?<br /><br />Sorry to be dense.<br /><br />Tom

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » January 8th, 2006, 4:45 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ Jan 8 2006, 10:37 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Xeno--<br /><br />You wrote: "Lactic acid cuts down your aerobic condition."<br /><br />Could you explain that statement a bit?<br /><br />Are you talking about the effect of a build-up of lactic acid during a training session? Or are you taling about the residual, ongoing affect of lactic acid in one's system? Or something else?<br /><br />Sorry to be dense.<br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Tom<br />To maintain aerobic fitness you train at the aerobic level. Increasing intensity creates more lactic acid in the muscular system. (Depending on your aerobic capacity you can get rid of lactic acid more efficiently.) Lactic acid breaks down muscle tissue in extreme cases, and there ARE extreme coaches, who overdue sprint training such as several times (more than 2 at max) 1000 meters or servral (over 4) 500 in the same session. To compensate for high intensity trainings, aerobic steady state workouts are done, at aerobic target heart rate or lower. <br />XENO

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » January 8th, 2006, 6:09 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Xeno @ Jan 7 2006, 09:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Jan 5 2006, 12:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Xeno @ Dec 30 2005, 05:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Training Program 2K sprint CRASH B LONG BEACH, CRASH B BOSTON on Feb 4th & 25th (XENO MULLER)<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Xeno,<br /><br />A big thanks for the plan, and a few questions, if you will (or anyone else obviously).<br />- I don't see any boldface dates that you mentioned for the workouts you would prioritize (for lower mileage people).<br />- Are the steady states always the priority, like you mention for those feeling tired?<br />- I have always heard that with a short time left to race day, that lower mileage and higher intensity was the proper strategy. Agree?<br />- I have a particular problem, which has happened for a couple years now. I increase intensity and volume a few months ahead of race day (but I'm in good shape anyway from year round competitive rowing), and at paces not exceeding prior record pace, once or twice per week, with lots of other steady state. But after just two or three weeks, my performance craters. Obviously I'm overdoing it in some sense, but it seems too fast of a burnout to fit textbook "overtraining". So now I've cut and cut goal paces and taken lots of time off, but have also shot a whole month getting to a marginal position. Does this happen to anyone else? What's the best tip for recovery and race survival? My choices seem to be only to either overtrain or detrain, neither of which are the desired plan.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Doug <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Doug<br />Let me go back and work on the bold print. I pasted a word doc and it did not carry over.<br />Steady state is crucial for either developing the aerobic capacity, OR compensating for a hard workout. Some national teams end up fizzling out by the world championship. Not necessarily because of overtraining, but by undertraining their aerobic capacity. Now reflecting back, opposition dropped off in stages. Those with lack of technique would drop after five hundred meters, using too much power to keep up. At a thousand meters it became a lack of aerobic conditiong (combinationof power to weight ratio). At 1500 meters it was the separation of the top people and the finalists, still a cause of who had lower lactic accumulation. In the final 250 it came down to whom had more left until the lacatate max levels. There is a bunch of psychological hurdles to deal with too, but that we can talk about some time in the future.<br />Less volume more intensity in order to prepare for a final championship is right. At the Olympic level you still train around 2 to 2.5 hours per day in the final stages. I truely lucked out in 2000 by walking away with a medal. All week long I had cold symptoms. My heart rate would not cool down after the semi, two days before the final. The cause to my silver medal was due to the fact that I was the fittest I have ever been. Occasionally I think about the outcome had I been a solid 100% in health. Such is sport however. My challenge now is to develop indoor rowing so that i can go on vacation worry free. Man! of topic again.<br />Your last question is interesting. Lactic acid cuts down your aerobic condition. It is the aerobic condition that slows the increase of lactic acid during a race. Are you going to compete this CRASH B? Are you following this plan? What do you mean with paces not exceeding other record pace? If you look at the program I do not push sprints regularly. I can help you further if I know more detail.<br />All the best,<br />XENO <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Xeno,<br /><br />Thanks for taking interest. I can see the bold type now. Let me answer your questions at the end and fill in detail.<br />- I am not planning on doing crash-b this year, but I do race at the satelite event in my area (San Francisco) on Feb 12. I took gold and silver in the last two years there. Next year when I turn 50, I am hoping to do something interesting in Boston. (Am actively pursuing the best one year plan to do that!!). Am presently 6:30ish.<br />- I haven't followed your plan yet. Just saw it a few days ago. I have been doing my own plan, inspired by elements of Wolverine and Pete's plan that you might've seen on other boards here. Maybe we can cut to the chase by my asking you what you think of their once per week 4x1k (or equiv.) at race pace?? I see in your recent post, and in your plan, that you don't often go above half that in a single session. This last seasonal period, I "warmed up" the first week with a 4x1k@1:39, worked my way down to the same workout @1:38 over the next couple of weeks, failed then at 1:37.5, cut, cut, cut intensity the following weeks, and last week just managed one at 1:40 with notable effort. (the other 5 days/week are lower paced steady states or medium paced intervals. Total volume from 60k to 80k).<br />- "Paces not exceeding prior records" meant that the high intensity pieces, described above, were never above my prior personal best 2k (6:28.7).<br /><br />So, my issue at hand is how to get back on track and optimize the last month I have. What sketchy information there is on "overtraining" suggests to me that volume is more of a danger than intensity, so I've been cutting back on the longer steady state stuff for the short term. The couch potato recovery plan. But maybe I've got it backward? <br /><br />Then again, now seeing your boldfaced training items, you favor the higher intensity stuff too for the most part. Right? And some of them (3x7', 100% effort, no rest indicated) don't sound much easier than a 4x1k. That one mentioned sounds a lot like 3 back to back 2k all out tests.<br /><br />One last question. Is there any feature in your plan that gives good feedback on what your 2k capability is? How you should set your race pace goal on race day? I've always thought that a 4x1k was a pretty good proxy for 2k capability.<br /><br />Hopefully enough and not too much detail. Thanks again.<br /><br />Doug