Technology In Use...

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » February 7th, 2006, 12:48 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Feb 6 2006, 08:24 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You get it Gus, but many don't. I've heard people complain that they just want a meter that reads the same thing for the same effort, and become confused by those variances. It's the same mindset that complains that there isn't a universal definition of where the anearobic threshold is, or that some define it as 4mmol and others as twice the aerobic threshold, or that it rises on a high carb diet, etc. etc. Thus the claim that lactate testing is inaccurate. Biology is just messy sometimes. But if you keep your eyes open long enough, there's plenty to learn from that messy data. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't think there's any universal definition that works for everybody when it comes to exercise. Each body is a bit different and all we can do is try our best to establish the proper training for each of us in relationship to our individuality. General guidelines or recommendations can work as a starting point, but one needs to learn what works for you.<br /><br />By the way, Doug, I see you row for Los Gatos RC. I spent many hours on Lexington rowing for SCU. Nice venue when there's water. <br />

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » February 7th, 2006, 1:11 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Coach Gus @ Feb 6 2006, 09:48 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />By the way, Doug, I see you row for Los Gatos RC. I spent many hours on Lexington rowing for SCU. Nice venue when there's water. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Yes, late in the year it can be a long walk down to that mud puddle at the bottom. Been lucky the last couple years. Full to the brim. Now they have to drain the whole thing for a year to fix the dam.<br /><br />I spent many hours/years myself at SCU, in those early morning graduate engineering classes.<br />

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » February 7th, 2006, 11:11 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Feb 6 2006, 08:12 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Are you agreeing with JR, and consider lactate testing "minutia of little practical efficacy"? <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I'm amazed that you could interpret what I said in a way that would lead to such a question, but no, I am not agreeing with JR.<br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Do you need to be a top performer, a record holder, to be justified in using whatever is available to fine tune your edge? I think there are a lot of us who are clearly not top performers, yet are at the top or ceiling of our game, and justifiably yearn for the possibility of nudging it higher, through knowledge we might not have yet encountered. And many many here who are fighting that mortal battle just as ferociously as the top performers.<br /> </td></tr></table><br />Nope, you can (and probably will) do whatever your heart (mind) desires. You have got to know better than to imply I'd shun any sort of data. <br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Any coach who advises an athlete not to think, to ignore a very wide array of tools others have researched and written about, and to only do this and this, in my opinion is doing a grave disservice. It is why, when I am at the boathouse with the crew and coach I always do just shut up and row. But when it comes to my personal fitness, I don't realy trust any coach any more than I trust a broker with all of my finances. But I digress, sorry. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hey, I think it's the "respected authors" opinon that training is like putting "fitness dollars" into the "competition account". You looking for a fight or something? <br />If I had a dollar for every time I heard "I was anaerobic for the last 30 minutes of my workout" (yeahsureUbetcha), I wouldn't exactly be rich, but it would be a good chunk of change.<br /><br />Ever seen the "Stop The Madness" (STM) plan? I know the title might need some work, but it started out as "Keep It Simple Stupid, Make Your Athletic Success Sure." and that seemed to be a bit too long.<br /><br />Careful now, I'm jest having a bit of fun.

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » February 7th, 2006, 2:05 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Feb 7 2006, 08:11 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Feb 6 2006, 08:12 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Are you agreeing with JR, and consider lactate testing "minutia of little practical efficacy"? <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I'm amazed that you could interpret what I said in a way that would lead to such a question, but no, I am not agreeing with JR.<br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Do you need to be a top performer, a record holder, to be justified in using whatever is available to fine tune your edge? I think there are a lot of us who are clearly not top performers, yet are at the top or ceiling of our game, and justifiably yearn for the possibility of nudging it higher, through knowledge we might not have yet encountered. And many many here who are fighting that mortal battle just as ferociously as the top performers.<br /> </td></tr></table><br />Nope, you can (and probably will) do whatever your heart (mind) desires. You have got to know better than to imply I'd shun any sort of data. <br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Any coach who advises an athlete not to think, to ignore a very wide array of tools others have researched and written about, and to only do this and this, in my opinion is doing a grave disservice. It is why, when I am at the boathouse with the crew and coach I always do just shut up and row. But when it comes to my personal fitness, I don't realy trust any coach any more than I trust a broker with all of my finances. But I digress, sorry. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hey, I think it's the "respected authors" opinon that training is like putting "fitness dollars" into the "competition account". You looking for a fight or something? <br />If I had a dollar for every time I heard "I was anaerobic for the last 30 minutes of my workout" (yeahsureUbetcha), I wouldn't exactly be rich, but it would be a good chunk of change.<br /><br />Ever seen the "Stop The Madness" (STM) plan? I know the title might need some work, but it started out as "Keep It Simple Stupid, Make Your Athletic Success Sure." and that seemed to be a bit too long.<br /><br />Careful now, I'm jest having a bit of fun. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Fun on! Sorry for the jr reference. Below the belt. Other comments very general. Certainly not aimed at you.<br /><br />Maybe a night's sleep helps, but I heartily appreciate the sentiment of STM and KISS. Certainly those who skip what might be unnattractive (to them)fundamentals and look for a magic bullet in lactate testing or some whacky supplement, for example, will be dissappointed. <br /><br />Hope that's not the case for this novice at the ear lancet. I've bumped into issues that accurate Lactate levels would shed a lot of light on, if they turn out to be different then I thought they'd be, for the different levels I've been training at. <br /><br />Hope to share with more experience, and hope others with that experience would share now. There are apparently about 1500 Lactate Pros in use in North America, and I would guess a larger number of the other makes in Europe, where I hear lactate testing is more widely accepted. Would think more than a few of those would be ergers.

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » February 7th, 2006, 4:41 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Feb 6 2006, 05:59 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>There is one prominent and respected author among us who rejects not only lactate, but HR monitors, the "mythological" anearobic threshold, any usefulness in consideration of fast twitch vs. slow twich muscle development, periodization, and probably more. Don't mean to pick on him, as he is very successful and well thought of. <b>But I don't like anyone suggesting that what's useless to them is useless to everyone.</b> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Feb 7 2006, 12:12 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><b>Any coach who advises an athlete not to think, to ignore a very wide array of tools others have researched and written about, and to only do this and this, in my opinion is doing a grave disservice.</b> <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Wow – we sure don’t need people like this around here. You seem to have some personal stake in this. Is this coach one of those people on the forum who butts into every thread with unsolicited advice and tells people what they’re doing wrong while at the same time expounding on why he (the coach) is so great? Has he followed you around on the forum and belittled you and your training practices? Boy, I hate it when that happens. You know, as it happens I am someone with a fair amount of experience in coaching and training, and I have a considerable amount of education in that specialized area as well. People have been known to ask me for my advice on various training matters. I pretty much keep my advice confined to one thread set up exactly for the purpose of relating my views and experiences so that I’m not forcing them on anyone who doesn’t want them. Even so, I’m always careful to point out that I’m not trying to convert anyone to my training methods. I like to explain my rationale, and often provide a considerable amount of scientific research or evidence I use to form my opinion, but then allow others to make up their own minds and decide what’s best for them. So, I can appreciate how you would be upset by any coach that tells others (especially without being asked!) that what they are doing is useless or that they shouldn’t think for themselves. As for me, I get upset when people make unfair characterizations about others’ intents or motivations. It’s one of the reasons I don’t post more than I do.<br /><br />Mike Caviston<br />

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » February 7th, 2006, 8:19 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Feb 7 2006, 01:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Wow – we sure don’t need people like this around here. You seem to have some personal stake in this. Is this coach one of those people on the forum who butts into every thread with unsolicited advice and tells people what they’re doing wrong while at the same time expounding on why he (the coach) is so great? Has he followed you around on the forum and belittled you and your training practices? Boy, I hate it when that happens. You know, as it happens I am someone with a fair amount of experience in coaching and training, and I have a considerable amount of education in that specialized area as well. People have been known to ask me for my advice on various training matters. I pretty much keep my advice confined to one thread set up exactly for the purpose of relating my views and experiences so that I’m not forcing them on anyone who doesn’t want them. Even so, I’m always careful to point out that I’m not trying to convert anyone to my training methods. I like to explain my rationale, and often provide a considerable amount of scientific research or evidence I use to form my opinion, but then allow others to make up their own minds and decide what’s best for them. So, I can appreciate how you would be upset by any coach that tells others (especially without being asked!) that what they are doing is useless or that they shouldn’t think for themselves. As for me, I get upset when people make unfair characterizations about others’ intents or motivations. It’s one of the reasons I don’t post more than I do.<br /><br />Mike Caviston <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I was writing something of an apology, since it really wasn't all about you anyway, but re-read and decided I don't need to take such a rant myself. When you stand out like you do, and brush off so much commonly held material, you have to accept that you'll be a bit of a target. No, you don't directly order folks not to think. But I honestly don't think you've made the best case physiologically for many of those views. Anyway, don't let a barb dissuade you from helping many who look to you for it.<br /><br />- Doug

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