Rod Freed

[[old] Bayko]

We now have first hand knowledge (Joan's) that the guy exists. but she has added that she cannot verify his stupendous times.<br /><br />We still have only his own words in an interview, based on his own postings in the rankings, as evidence that he did those fantastic scores. Can ANYONE ELSE other than Rod Freed verify that he did them?<br /><br /> He has about five years worth of incredible performances. Has ANYONE, even ONCE in those five years been able to determine if he did them for real?<br /><br />Rick

[[old] Dickie]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Dec 7 2005, 07:12 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Dec 7 2005, 07:12 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We now have first hand knowledge (Joan's) that the guy exists.  but she has added that she cannot verify his stupendous times.<br /><br />We still have only his own words in an interview, based on his own postings in the rankings, as evidence that he did those fantastic scores.  Can ANYONE ELSE other than Rod Freed verify that he did them?<br /><br /> He has about five years worth of incredible performances.  Has ANYONE, even ONCE in those five years been able to determine if he did them for real?<br /><br />Rick <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />With all due respect Rick, is it necessary for anyone here to verify. This has always been an honor system and while Joan has acknowledged his existance, she has not posted anything here to suggest that he is not honorable.<br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-Dickie+Dec 7 2005, 08:15 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Dickie @ Dec 7 2005, 08:15 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With all due respect Rick, is it necessary for anyone here to verify.  This has always been an honor system and while Joan has acknowledged his existance, she has not posted anything here to suggest that he is not honorable. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Agreed.<br /><br />Joan has verified a number of things about Freed.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-joanvb+Dec 5 2005, 06:43 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(joanvb @ Dec 5 2005, 06:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I didn't know if the Rod Freed that I've seen mentioned on the forum was really the same Rod Freed that I knew in Long Beach.  I guess these posts reveal that it is.  I can't vouch for any of his indoor rowing performances, because those must have occurred years after I regularly saw and spoke with Rod at the boathouse.  He was somewhat of a character (aren't we all? ), and I do recall that he rowed a lot of long distance by himself in the single (multiple 4,000 meter trips around Naples Island in sheltered Alamitos Bay in Long Beach, which is rowable every day, year round).  Additionally, I recall, as is mentioned in the referenced newsletter, that his speed in the single (at least when I knew him) was unremarkable.  <br /><br />Joan[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />1) Freed does exist;<br /><br />2) Joan regularly saw and spoke with him at the Long Beach Rowing Association;<br /><br />3) Freed was somewhat of a character (which serves to verify he would make his own path and do his own training, which would be different from the norm);<br /><br />4) He rowed "a lot of long distance by himself in the single";<br /><br />5) He did "multiple 4,000 meter trips around Naples Island"<br /><br />6) His speed was unremarkable.<br /><br />The 4km trips are similar to his subsequent training on the erg. All of Joan's observation's serve to verify it is the same Rod Freed, and that he did the training, and thus times, his profile.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Dickie+Dec 7 2005, 08:15 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Dickie @ Dec 7 2005, 08:15 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Dec 7 2005, 07:12 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Dec 7 2005, 07:12 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We now have first hand knowledge (Joan's) that the guy exists.  but she has added that she cannot verify his stupendous times.<br /><br />We still have only his own words in an interview, based on his own postings in the rankings, as evidence that he did those fantastic scores.  Can ANYONE ELSE other than Rod Freed verify that he did them?<br /><br /> He has about five years worth of incredible performances.  Has ANYONE, even ONCE in those five years been able to determine if he did them for real?<br /><br />Rick <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />With all due respect Rick, is it necessary for anyone here to verify. This has always been an honor system and while Joan has acknowledged his existance, she has not posted anything here to suggest that he is not honorable. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I was going to start this post with "needless to say", but apparently it does need to be said. There has been questioning of performances in this forum before, and there probably will be again. The unfortunate part is that this questioning, or outright slander, has been done by individuals with an axe to grind.<br /><br />If my statements regarding the strangeness of Rod Freeds apparent physiology quirks has been taken by anyone to mean that I even think that his performances are not genuine, that thought has never crossed my mind. I can neither confirm nor deny what he has accomplished, but I have no problem pointing out that the trend of his performances is so far from what I have observed over 20+ years, and a lot of different training programs, that basically anyone (meaning the vast majority of people) is not going to be of the same physiology and should not be too disturbed if they do not follow a similar trend. i.e. 6k workouts at 2k PB pace +3. All that shows is a lack of "top end" which Mr. Freed admits to in his own words.<br /><br />Anyway, Erg performances are what they are, nothing more and nothing less; Being "fast" doesn't make anyone "good" and being slow doesn't make anyone "bad". Life would be much easier if that's all it took, but until such a test exists I guess we'll just have to bumble along figuring those things out as we go.<br />

[[old] joanvb]

I just looked at his 5K and 6K times (!), and I think that perhaps it's not the same Rod Freed that I knew. <br /><br />Joan

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-joanvb+Dec 7 2005, 01:04 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(joanvb @ Dec 7 2005, 01:04 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just looked at his 5K and 6K times (!), and I think that perhaps it's not the same Rod Freed that I knew.  <br /><br />Joan <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks Joan, then it must be the "other" Rod Freed that is associated with LRA and the University of CA. <br /><br />I'm really not trying to drag you into anything, but this annual resurection of "the greatest distance rower of all time" by the nattering nabobs, begs for a bit of fun.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-joanvb+Dec 7 2005, 01:04 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(joanvb @ Dec 7 2005, 01:04 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just looked at his 5K and 6K times (!), and I think that perhaps it's not the same Rod Freed that I knew.  <br /><br />Joan[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Why don't you ask him then, since you know him and you're right there. <img src='http://www.d2ksoft.com/blog/images/smiles/whistle.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

[[old] joanvb]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 7 2005, 04:22 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 7 2005, 04:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thanks Joan, then it must be the "other" Rod Freed that is associated with LRA and the University of CA.   <br /><br />I'm really not trying to drag you into anything, but this annual resurection of "the greatest distance rower of all time" by the nattering nabobs, begs for a bit of fun. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /> ...and one would think that "the greatest distance rower of all time" would take advantage of the many opportunities to display it publicly <br />Joan

[[old] John Rupp]

That would be the easy way.

[[old] Bayko]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was going to start this post with "needless to say", but apparently it does need to be said. There has been questioning of performances in this forum before, and there probably will be again. The unfortunate part is that this questioning, or outright slander, has been done by individuals with an axe to grind.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Perhaps I'm standing on an ice floe all by myself here. It takes a lot of hard training to get the erg scores that I get, and I have a great appreciation for those who get better scores because I realize that it takes even harder training or tougher mental strength to do so. It galls me to no end though to be pushed down in the rankings by someone doing nothing more strenuous than making a few keystokes at the computer.<br /><br />Apparently I'm in a small minority though, judging from the comments on this thread and the companion "Falsified Rowers" thread. I might ask, how naive do we have to be to avoid hurting anyone's feelings? Very naive, it seems. The concensus seems to be that anyone who posts a score in the rankings is above reproach because only honest, honorable people come here (despite the rest of the internet being bombarded by hackers, and jokers). And that even if someone does post a bogus time, so what? No big deal. They are only hurting themselves. I didn't buy that line as a kid and it's no more palatable now.<br /><br />In addition to hurting themselves phoney posters should at the very least be considered an affront to everyone who works out hard for their own scores. And that goes for the guy who should rank 83rd instead 88th as well as the guy who should be 1st instead of 2nd. I doubt that C2 started the rankings as an entertainment for those who enjoy seeing how gullible people can be.<br /><br />Nevertheless, I find myself with few, if any supporters. I will leave the Rod Freed issue alone from now on. The axe will be ground no more. <br /><br />And by the way, slander is the spoken word, and only if it turns out to be a lie. Libel was the word you were looking for, and again, only if it is a lie.<br /><br />Rick

[[old] Samroot]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Dec 8 2005, 01:51 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Dec 8 2005, 01:51 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was going to start this post with "needless to say", but apparently it does need to be said. There has been questioning of performances in this forum before, and there probably will be again. The unfortunate part is that this questioning, or outright slander, has been done by individuals with an axe to grind.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Perhaps I'm standing on an ice floe all by myself here. It takes a lot of hard training to get the erg scores that I get, and I have a great appreciation for those who get better scores because I realize that it takes even harder training or tougher mental strength to do so. It galls me to no end though to be pushed down in the rankings by someone doing nothing more strenuous than making a few keystokes at the computer.<br /><br />Apparently I'm in a small minority though, judging from the comments on this thread and the companion "Falsified Rowers" thread. I might ask, how naive do we have to be to avoid hurting anyone's feelings? Very naive, it seems. The concensus seems to be that anyone who posts a score in the rankings is above reproach because only honest, honorable people come here (despite the rest of the internet being bombarded by hackers, and jokers). And that even if someone does post a bogus time, so what? No big deal. They are only hurting themselves. I didn't buy that line as a kid and it's no more palatable now.<br /><br />In addition to hurting themselves phoney posters should at the very least be considered an affront to everyone who works out hard for their own scores. And that goes for the guy who should rank 83rd instead 88th as well as the guy who should be 1st instead of 2nd. I doubt that C2 started the rankings as an entertainment for those who enjoy seeing how gullible people can be.<br /><br />Nevertheless, I find myself with few, if any supporters. I will leave the Rod Freed issue alone from now on. The axe will be ground no more. <br /><br />And by the way, slander is the spoken word, and only if it turns out to be a lie. Libel was the word you were looking for, and again, only if it is a lie.<br /><br />Rick <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Amen brother!<br />I'd gladly join you on that ice flow. I've always thought it curious that someone with such quality work never seemingly took it to the next level and competed in the public arena. It flys in the face of the kind of stuff you must have to reach that kind of level. You don't do that kind of work and be nonchalant or indifferent about competing. It doesn't make sense.<br /><br />As my late great college roommate Bob Pitney-killed on a Gulf Oil tanker in the 70s<br />and from Louisiana,MO,would say-'Show Me'! I'd rather be called too cynical than too gullible.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Dec 8 2005, 05:51 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Dec 8 2005, 05:51 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was going to start this post with "needless to say", but apparently it does need to be said. There has been questioning of performances in this forum before, and there probably will be again. The unfortunate part is that this questioning, or outright slander, has been done by individuals with an axe to grind.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Perhaps I'm standing on an ice floe all by myself here. It takes a lot of hard training to get the erg scores that I get, and I have a great appreciation for those who get better scores because I realize that it takes even harder training or tougher mental strength to do so. It galls me to no end though to be pushed down in the rankings by someone doing nothing more strenuous than making a few keystokes at the computer.<br /><br />Apparently I'm in a small minority though, judging from the comments on this thread and the companion "Falsified Rowers" thread. I might ask, how naive do we have to be to avoid hurting anyone's feelings? Very naive, it seems. The concensus seems to be that anyone who posts a score in the rankings is above reproach because only honest, honorable people come here (despite the rest of the internet being bombarded by hackers, and jokers). And that even if someone does post a bogus time, so what? No big deal. They are only hurting themselves. I didn't buy that line as a kid and it's no more palatable now.<br /><br />In addition to hurting themselves phoney posters should at the very least be considered an affront to everyone who works out hard for their own scores. And that goes for the guy who should rank 83rd instead 88th as well as the guy who should be 1st instead of 2nd. I doubt that C2 started the rankings as an entertainment for those who enjoy seeing how gullible people can be.<br /><br />Nevertheless, I find myself with few, if any supporters. I will leave the Rod Freed issue alone from now on. The axe will be ground no more. <br /><br />And by the way, slander is the spoken word, and only if it turns out to be a lie. Libel was the word you were looking for, and again, only if it is a lie.<br /><br />Rick <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Hi Rick, I guess I was being too sensitive and making too many assumptions when making that post. I completely agree with you, and my point was that it's very tough to make the outright claim that a time is false if it is within plausible limits, that's why I would choose to point out things about the time and let anyone who cares draw their own conclusion. i.e. Rod Freeds ranked 10k time in 2003 (50-59 M, lwt) if split into 2 = 5k's, both would be fast enough to occupy 3rd place by a mere 2 seconds overall time, that's including the hwt rowers, and 1st place is of course occupied by Rod already. This alone should have the man starin on That's Incredible. But I can understand if he is a private individual that does not care for the limelight. <br /><br />I don't think that there are many with an axe to grind, basically John Rupp, which can be seen easily, though I have no idea what his problem with me or others is. And strangely enough the Rupp loves Freed, but that will only last as long ashe can use it to slam others and Rod doesn't actually show up personally on the forum.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-Samroot+Dec 8 2005, 06:35 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Samroot @ Dec 8 2005, 06:35 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've always thought it curious that someone with such quality work never seemingly took it to the next level and competed in the public arena. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />I just don't understand why Freed hasn't competed in the Long Beach Rowing Association's annual indoor half marathon rowing championships.<br /><br />Ohhh that's right... it's because..... THERE ISN'T ONE!!!

[[old] John Rupp]

When I was running track at age 19, there were no other races around except during track season at the school.<br /><br />There were no 10k's at all, and certainly no marathons.<br /><br />My favorite distance was the 10k (6 miles at the time) and I would often run 3, 6, and 10 mile time trials in the track. Only once in that few years was there a track race for those distances in the area, which was 80 miles away. I drove there and got my fastest time by 2 minutes. <br /><br />Then I got the idea to run a marathon. But there were no marathons around Santa Maria at that time, and none even now. I didn't have the means to travel a greater distance to find one so I decided to do one on my own on the dirt track at the high school. I started out one morning too ambitiously and was falling behind pace at 22 2/4 miles so I stopped and ran it again a week later. This time I made the full distance and kicked it in the last mile. My first marathon, at age 19. <br /><br />There were no witnesses, except a friend who drove by the track and saw me running, then saw me again still running 3 hours later. How could there be witnesses, when there was no race??? And there was no organized event anywhere in the area???<br /><br />That is the case for Freed. <br /><br />Even today, there are NO well publicized 5k, 6k, 30 minute, 10, 1 hour, or half marathon public indoor rowing races anywhere in the country!<br /><br />How could he have competed in any of them when they didn't exist and still don't?????<br /><br />It is foolish of anyone to suggest that just because races didn't exist that he should have participated in them, or that because such races did not exist, that his times were not accurate.<br />

[[old] Coach Gus]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 8 2005, 02:05 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 8 2005, 02:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />My favorite distance was the 10k (6 miles at the time)...<br /><br />My first marathon, at age 19.  <br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I didn't realize that 10K was different back then. <br /><br />Was your marathon shorter too?