Aching Muscles

[[old] adkmurray]

Thanks again for all responses!<br />Cheers,<br />Jim

[[old] adkmurray]

<!--QuoteBegin-Coach Gus+Nov 22 2005, 01:54 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Coach Gus @ Nov 22 2005, 01:54 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've read a few reports that said soaking in a hot tub after running longer distances such as half to full marathons extended the time for the body to recover.  If I'm remembering correctly it add 3 to 4 days, but don't hold me to that time frame.  We used to think heat helped loosen tight muscles after heavy training or hard racing, but it turns out it actually harms the body. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Exactly, guys would stand under the hot showers after practice for as long as they could. I guess I missed the part about actually harming. Behind the curve again!<br />Jim

[[old] ljwagner]

<!--QuoteBegin-Coach Gus+Nov 21 2005, 10:54 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Coach Gus @ Nov 21 2005, 10:54 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've read a few reports that said soaking in a hot tub after running longer distances such as half to full marathons extended the time for the body to recover.  If I'm remembering correctly it add 3 to 4 days, but don't hold me to that time frame.  We used to think heat helped loosen tight muscles after heavy training or hard racing, but it turns out it actually harms the body. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That makes a lot of sense.<br /><br />I would suspect the best thing after a marathon (and any extended exercise) is <br /> 1. get re-hydrated<br /> 2. eat<br /> 3. get showered, warm not hot, finish cool, not cold.<br /> 4. get some rest.<br /><br />A warm shower always feels good. Apparently finishing up with cool water for athletes is a good idea, however uncomfortable.<br /><br />Don't let folks overdo it. Work hard, and get then tired, then chilling the body will be even more stressful. That could result in micro-injured muscles from the workout, but an energy depleted body from an overcold bath/shower. Then the immune system shuts down because the body needs heat before the ability to heal well. Colds come on easily then.<br /><br />Moderation in all things. A hot jacuzzi is great to stimulate circulation, but if you have a lot of sore muscles, its much less of a good idea. <br /><br />As long as you like that bit. See if you can arrange so your athletes all get at least a small balanced meal or good snack witin 90 minutes of a hard workout. My research into exercise research shows that aids recovery a lot. That meal in that time frame somehow gets necessary ingested nutrients directly to the muscles with depleted energy stores and in need of protein to rebuild the stressed muscles. I always ate after workouts, looking back that would explain be one more link in how this skinny guy could do so well. Without knowing it, I was doing so many things just right.<br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

ljwagner,<br /><br />It sounds like you "agree" with me on cold vs heat, i.e. never use heat on an injury.<br /><br />Actually the modality of choice for the last 50 years is M.I.C.E.<br /><br />MOVEMENT - ICE - COMPRESSION - ELEVATION<br /><br />This is detailed in the excellent book, "The Causes, Prevention and Treatment of Sports Injuries" by Hans Kraus.<br /><br /><a href='http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cf ... ting*title' target='_blank'>http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cf ... g*title</a>

[[old] ljwagner]

Yes, absolutely. <br /><br />Sometimes movement is all it needs, or a stretch, for better circulation. For general muscle soreness, movement is definitely all that necessary, it does the job of boosting the circulation. But I have not heard that movement can fix a tear or break of any kind.<br /><br />For tissue/muscle injuries, the 3 day cool, then alternate heat/cool is published and well known. Massage can help a lot. Depends on severity.<br /><br />Investment in a good Trainer's Guide and an Exercise Physiology book can clear up many misconceptions, bolster many coaches reasons for what they do, and educate the rest of us. One reason why my hind sight is so good. I found out what I SHOULD have done. Now I know better, and know what I am talking about from my own experience, good and bad, and the knowledge available in reliable resources.<br /><br />A high school buddy was told to walk off a sore leg at football practice once, so he tried, then limpd a half mile back to school. He had a broken patella. Movement was not the solution.

[[old] John Rupp]

Movement as to injuries means first numbing the area with ice, then gentle movement to where pain begins to be felt, then more numbing of the area -- not overdoing it -- more movement, repeating until the area is healed. <br /><br />Always this is done very gradually. <br /><br />I first did this when a groin pull was bothering me so much it was extremely painful to get up from a chair or to get out of bed. Finally I found this method and the injury healed VERY quickly, in a matter of a couple of days and in a week it was gone.<br /><br />This is in opposition to "stretching". An injury must never be stretched, as doing so would cause additional injury to the fibers. Rather stretching can be done to other areas that relieve pressure in the target. An example of this is right calves or achilles problems where stretching the backs of the legs, hamstrings, gluts, etc, relieves the pressure in the calves. This is outlined in the book about astanga (power) yoga.<br /><br />I agree there is not much movement to do with a broken limb, though once it begins healing then movement is still the treatment of choice. When I had three broken bones in my foot, I refused a cast and kept soaking my foot in cold water and ice four or five times a day, first hopping around on one foot, then limping around. The limp kept getting less. After 4 1/2 weeks I was walk/shuffling 1 lap of the track and soaking my feet at night from the aching, then after 6 weeks running and no walking, and at 10 weeks back up to 100 miles a week. That would NOT have been possible with a cast! Four months from the injury, the motivation helped me take more than 5 minutes from my marathon time.