"low Pull"

[old] lintonwilson · Post by **[old] lintonwilson** » November 2nd, 2005, 7:13 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Sir Pirate @ Nov 2 2005, 04:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(xdarrylx @ Nov 2 2005, 08:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I gotta try this sometime!<br />What are some numbers people are achieving?! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have wintnessed low pull of 1:04 by Graham Benton, have seen a few 1:05's also by Benton and a 1:06 from Rob Smith.<br /><br />Sir Pirate <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />1:04 is 1335.14 watts, which to me is just plain scary and incomprehensible

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » November 2nd, 2005, 7:32 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Sir Pirate @ Nov 2 2005, 04:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(xdarrylx @ Nov 2 2005, 08:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I gotta try this sometime!<br />What are some numbers people are achieving?! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have wintnessed low pull of 1:04 by Graham Benton, have seen a few 1:05's also by Benton and a 1:06 from Rob Smith.<br /><br />Sir Pirate <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I did a 1:07 once....once.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 2nd, 2005, 7:35 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 2 2005, 02:53 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Paul,<br /><br />So your definition of a trick is a high stroke rate, not a short stroke at the end.<br /><br />Okay.<br /><br />And you didn't answer my question. What is your fastest split for this year? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />My definition of "tricking the PM", is a short stroke that results in a very high Stroke rate reading along with the low Pace. Now here would be a good use for SPI. I'm sure you will continue to refuse to understand, no big deal.<br /><br />High Stroke rates are more of a "fooling yourself" than a "trick". Hence the reason for Stroke Rate controlled training pieces. <br /><br />Now to current events, you should be able to get a new "low pull" on slides, because they will allow you to rate higher than you could before, please report back.<br /><br />Nope, I didn't answer your question, what would be the point?

[old] NavigationHazard · Post by **[old] NavigationHazard** » November 2nd, 2005, 7:44 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(lintonwilson @ Nov 2 2005, 06:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Sir Pirate @ Nov 2 2005, 04:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(xdarrylx @ Nov 2 2005, 08:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I gotta try this sometime!<br />What are some numbers people are achieving?! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have wintnessed low pull of 1:04 by Graham Benton, have seen a few 1:05's also by Benton and a 1:06 from Rob Smith.<br /><br />Sir Pirate <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />1:04 is 1335.14 watts, which to me is just plain scary and incomprehensible <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />GB's record best for 500m, 1:14.8, works out to 836 watts -- more than a minute of more or less full strokes, not unsustainable short-arm wrenches. Keeping that other-worldly result in mind, his 1:04 low pull is (marginally) more comprehensible.....<br /><br />An interesting corollary is just how high a (wholly artificial) stroke rating you can achieve with short-armed mini-strokes. Without particularly working at it just now I've managed 107 spm and I suspect the upper limit is considerably higher.<br /><br />Note to John Rupp: if you could sustain 107 spm you'd only need to produce 6.4 spi for a 5:20 2k ....<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 2nd, 2005, 8:39 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Nov 2 2005, 03:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>GB's record best for 500m, 1:14.8, works out to 836 watts -- more than a minute of more or less full strokes, not unsustainable short-arm wrenches.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Exactly.<br /><br />Graham averaged right on 8 meters per stroke for his 500 meter PB, around 80% of his 2k of closer to 10 meters per stroke.<br /><br />I don't know his rate or meters per stroke for 100 meters or max stroke rate but it is quite likely less than for 500 meters.<br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 2nd, 2005, 8:46 pm

Nav,<br /><br />107 spm is quite high and very interesting.<br /><br />For 500 meters my rating is around 46 spm, and about the same when doing max strokes. I did some a few days ago and the highest stroke rate was 42 to 48 spm. I reached 1:24 pace a number of times a year or two ago and the stroke rates were 42 spm.<br /><br />I've never tried doing short strokes aka Paul but, as I said before, seriously doubt it would be any faster.

[old] FrancoisA · Post by **[old] FrancoisA** » November 2nd, 2005, 10:22 pm

What would also be interesting is to compare the "low pull" to the race pace at various distances.<br />First, one would convert pace to watts using the formula <br /><br />WATT = 2.8/PACE^3, where PACE = Time( in second) / distance (in meters).<br /><br />For instance, my best pace for three consecutive strokes is 1:36 (395.6 watts), and my best 500m is 1:39 (360.7 watts). That means I can maintain 91.2% of my "low pull" wattage for a 500m. For a 5k (1:47 pace = 285.7 watts), the percentage drops to 72%.<br /><br />Those percentages might indicate whether one has to work on strength or on endurance. <br />They may also be related to the proportion of slow to fast twitch muscles.<br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 2nd, 2005, 10:51 pm

There was a comparison on the UK site a couple of years ago.<br /><br />You don't need to convert to watts.<br /><br />Just compare the paces and you can more easily find the ratios.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 2nd, 2005, 11:07 pm

Here is the UK thread:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... =max+split' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... x+split</a>

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » November 3rd, 2005, 3:55 am

CAUTION with what is a low pull or max speed per stroke<br /><br />Don't get injured trying to find out how low you can bring the 500 meter split time or how HIGH you can push the watts.<br /><br />XENO<br />

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » November 3rd, 2005, 7:22 am

Lowest pull I've seen was by a three (?) years old. He sat on the slide and made a stroke but the recoil of handle had him fly into the monitor which subsequently showed an astonishing 0:50 per 500 m !<br /><br />The little guy then crawled off the floor and up on the erg and did a new stroke. He managed to stay on this time but he must have lost a lot power during the "accident". His next pull was only 8:xx per 500m.

[old] NavigationHazard · Post by **[old] NavigationHazard** » November 3rd, 2005, 7:27 am

Well said, Xeno.<br /><br />When you strain it's all too easy to wrench your back, or drive yourself off the seat and give yourself a painful 'rail wedgie', or do something else that can cause you harm. Stop if it hurts; ideally, don't do anything to injure yourself in the first place.<br /><br />If you dabble in this kind of thing, it's also ALWAYS a good idea to check your equpment before you start. Make sure the bolts are tight, the erg isn't going to slip on the floor and/or fall over, the seat rollers aren't so filthy that they catch, the chain is in good condition, the U-Bolt holding the chain isn't rusted through, etc. etc. etc.

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » November 3rd, 2005, 10:36 am

'rail wedgie'<br /><br /><br />That is a great name for losing the seat!<br /><br />XENO

[old] remador · Post by **[old] remador** » November 3rd, 2005, 11:13 am

I think it would be interesting to make this kind of comparison mostly with restricted rates. Specially, if these rates were defined in a way that they would be as near as possible to on-water rowing. An international-level oarsman can pull, at the begginning of a race, about 1500-1800 Newtons/m (~153-183 kg) for the first strokes. Do many of the guys who go 1'10'', or so, at xxxxxx spm, have this kind of strength to put out (which, given all the leverage complexity of the rowing stroke, suggests a kind of weightlifter's strength, in isometric conditions)?<br /><br />AM

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » November 3rd, 2005, 11:39 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Nov 2 2005, 06:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />GB's record best for 500m, 1:14.8, works out to 836 watts -- more than a minute of more or less full strokes, not unsustainable short-arm wrenches. Keeping that other-worldly result in mind, his 1:04 low pull is (marginally) more comprehensible.....<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'm sure one of the Brits could verify this, but I think he's gone faster than that. I thought he was in the 1:12 to 1:13 range. I know he's faster than I am in the 500, and I had a 1:14.1 this year.

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