Apoligies To Big Paul Smith

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » April 8th, 2005, 6:30 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I was rowing 1:40 pace at 30spm pretty comfortably, strapless (though not for very long periods of time), which I think is pretty good, powerful training. </td></tr></table> Sure, 1:40 at 30 spm is 11.7 SPI, just about right for Pirate (and me). This is indeed good, powerful training. Problem is, you are not rowing a half-marathon at that speed, rate, and power. So what to do? 1:40 at 30 spm is Level 2/TR rowing. 2-3K intervals, not a continuous HM. 1:48 @ 24 spm is similar in stroking power (11.6 SPI) but no longer 10MPS. If Pirate were ambitious, he would try to do hour rows/HMs at this pace and rate, while shooting to maintain a controlled heart rate. This is UT1 rowing. The question is how to do UT2 rowing. On this, I have been going with the C2 manual (and things like the Wolverine Plan), keeping the power up and the rate down (1:52 at 22 spm, 11.4 SPI), rather than maintaining 10MPS (1:55 at 26 spm, 8.8 SPI). This is much harder, of course, but (I think?) it is also much better. Lots of sweat. Good, powerful training. ranger

[old] Don Seymour · Post by **[old] Don Seymour** » April 9th, 2005, 12:34 am

Ranger, You often share SPI figures such as "1:40 at 30 spm is 11.7 SPI" etc. Do you have a chart that tells you what the watts are for every corresponding 500 meter pace? For example based on your last post: 1:40 = 351 watts . . 1:48 = 278.4 watts . . 1:52 = 250.8 watts . . 1:55 = 228.8 watts with every pace filled inbetween? I was thinking of rowing a short piece at every 500 meter pace and then just recording what the average watts are for that pace, but if such a table already exits can you share it with us? Thanks, Don

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » April 9th, 2005, 5:14 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ranger @ Apr 8 2005, 10:30 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>1:48 @ 24 spm is similar in stroking power (11.6 SPI) but no longer 10MPS. If Pirate were ambitious, he would try to do hour rows/HMs at this pace and rate, while shooting to maintain a controlled heart rate. This is UT1 rowing. ranger </td></tr></table> Hi Ranger I have only just started strapless rowing, did a HM at 23spm in 80mins and this was not a problem. I am going to see how 5K at 24spm at 1:48 pace feels, if I can do it week I shall then be looking to build up to longer rows of up to 60mins aiming for 10mps. I don't want to jump straight in at the deep end. Regards Sir Pirate

[old] NavigationHazard · Post by **[old] NavigationHazard** » April 9th, 2005, 6:38 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Don Seymour @ Apr 8 2005, 11:34 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ranger, You often share SPI figures such as "1:40 at 30 spm is 11.7 SPI" etc. Do you have a chart that tells you what the watts are for every corresponding 500 meter pace? For example based on your last post: 1:40 = 351 watts . . 1:48 = 278.4 watts . . 1:52 = 250.8 watts . . 1:55 = 228.8 watts with every pace filled inbetween? I was thinking of rowing a short piece at every 500 meter pace and then just recording what the average watts are for that pace, but if such a table already exits can you share it with us? Thanks, Don </td></tr></table> Don't know whether there's a version somewhere on this site, but the C2 UK people have posted such a table. Go to <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.p ... conversion' target='_blank'>500m pace to Watts Conversion Table</a>

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » April 9th, 2005, 8:25 am

The planned strapless 5000m at 1:48 at 24spm was a lot easier than I thought it would be, could of carried on for half hour, think 10k may be possible at this rate and split, an hour?!! I don’t think so just yet. If I pushed today’s session, I feel a 1:45 pace would have been possible, but I am not sure what that would prove! Anyway, the 5K was- 1:47.2 (17:51.6) at 24spm. Strapless What SPI is that? Anyone know? Sir Pirate

[old] NavigationHazard · Post by **[old] NavigationHazard** » April 9th, 2005, 9:42 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Sir Pirate @ Apr 9 2005, 07:25 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The planned strapless 5000m at 1:48 at 24spm was a lot easier than I thought it would be, could of carried on for half hour, think 10k may be possible at this rate and split, an hour?!! I don’t think so just yet. If I pushed today’s session, I feel a 1:45 pace would have been possible, but I am not sure what that would prove! Anyway, the 5K was- 1:47.2 (17:51.6) at 24spm. Strapless What SPI is that? Anyone know? Sir Pirate </td></tr></table> Average 284 watts, so 11.83 SPI or so.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » April 9th, 2005, 11:24 am

There's no difference in the power output of a 17:51.6 5k whether you go at 18, 24, 30, or 36 spm.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » April 9th, 2005, 1:55 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Apr 9 2005, 07:24 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>There's no difference in the power output of a 17:51.6 5k whether you go at 18, 24, 30, or 36 spm. </td></tr></table> Sure there is, since power is only "output" on the Drive. I think what you mean is that the Average Power for the piece is the same, which is mostly true.

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » April 10th, 2005, 6:44 am

Strapless 2000m – 6:42.8 – (1:40.7) – 29spm – 125Df Spits- 1st 1:40.8 2nd 1:40.6 3rd 1:41.0 4th 1:40.8 In a few weeks I am sure I can get down to under 6:40 Sir Pirate

[old] NavigationHazard · Post by **[old] NavigationHazard** » April 10th, 2005, 7:32 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Sir Pirate @ Apr 10 2005, 05:44 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Strapless 2000m – 6:42.8 – (1:40.7) – 29spm – 125Df Spits-1st 1:40.8 2nd 1:40.6 3rd 1:41.0 4th 1:40.8 In a few weeks I am sure I can get down to under 6:40 Sir Pirate </td></tr></table> Freudian slip?

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » April 10th, 2005, 8:41 am

Sir P-- Strapless rowing helps with technique, especially with those who are not engaging their legs sufficiently. Your strapless rowing seems fine. If I were you, I wouldn't even bother with it. I no longer row strapless. It is taken quite a while, but technically, my stroke is now fine. My major task now is to train up this new technique--the new body positioning, timing of levers, leverage, finish, recovery, ratio, etc., especially in terms of endurance. It is coming along. To develop this endurance as far as possible, I would like to do 20-40K of UT2 rowing (1:52 at 22 spm) each morning for the next year and a half or so. I am now doing 1:52 @ 22 spm right at my UT2 heart rate (154 bpm). This is pretty comfortable, but I would like to see whether I could bring down that heart rate 10 bpm or so. BTW, with my new stroke, I have found that I do better with the UT2 rowing if I do _not_ skip rope for an hour to warm up, as I usually do. A proper on water rowing stroke, as I now use, is nicely balanced between legs, back, and arms. If I skip rope, my legs tire first in the rowing. This wasn't the case with my old stroke because the stroke neglected my legs. ranger

[old] anguar2000 · Post by **[old] anguar2000** » April 13th, 2005, 2:29 am

Ranger: Have been reading these forums for a few months, and from feedback from my own training, as well as thinking over some of the concepts presented on these forums, I'm beginning to come around to your SPI philosophy. I'm seeing the need to increase the power in my stroke. Currently, I row 10K in training at lower ratings at a little over 8 spi (calculated by taking the avg watts for the 10K divided by avg stroke rate, although the full-piece average number sometimes doesn't seem to correspond with the split numbers on the PM3). I've been attempting to row longer pieces at an average rate of 9.5 at lower stroke rates (20 spm), but tire after a few Ks. My question to you, and other SPI advocates: what is the best way to increase SPI? Specifically: 1. What type of training is best to increase strength (intervals, row until can't hit SPI target, etc.) 2. How much should I seek to increase the SPI per period (i.e., should I attempt to boost SPI by 5%, and when I'm able to handle that for 10K, should I boost it another 5%, etc.) 3. Should strength training (weights) play a part, or can I accomplish it all on the erg? 4. What SPI rating should I use as the base rating? The SPI from a 2K test piece, the SPI from a hard 10K row, etc.? Would appreciate your and any others' feedback.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » April 13th, 2005, 5:40 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(anguar2000 @ Apr 13 2005, 01:29 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ranger: Have been reading these forums for a few months, and from feedback from my own training, as well as thinking over some of the concepts presented on these forums, I'm beginning to come around to your SPI philosophy. I'm seeing the need to increase the power in my stroke. Currently, I row 10K in training at lower ratings at a little over 8 spi (calculated by taking the avg watts for the 10K divided by avg stroke rate, although the full-piece average number sometimes doesn't seem to correspond with the split numbers on the PM3). I've been attempting to row longer pieces at an average rate of 9.5 at lower stroke rates (20 spm), but tire after a few Ks. My question to you, and other SPI advocates: what is the best way to increase SPI? Specifically: 1. What type of training is best to increase strength (intervals, row until can't hit SPI target, etc.) 2. How much should I seek to increase the SPI per period (i.e., should I attempt to boost SPI by 5%, and when I'm able to handle that for 10K, should I boost it another 5%, etc.) 3. Should strength training (weights) play a part, or can I accomplish it all on the erg? 4. What SPI rating should I use as the base rating? The SPI from a 2K test piece, the SPI from a hard 10K row, etc.? Would appreciate your and any others' feedback. </td></tr></table> Tricky questions. Here is a first pass at answers. I think power per stroke has a lot to do with technique. Better technique (body positioning, timing of leverage, leverage, etc.) leads to more power per stroke. Unfortunately, "better" technique in rowing is also more demanding--more quickness with the major levers, more complete use of the major levers, more use of the big (as opposed to small) levers, and so forth. So if you want to improve your rowing "technique," you should never assume it is going to be a walk in the park. It isn't just "stylin'." Honestly, if my experience is representative, it is a royal pain in the f**king a*s. Lots of work. Lots of stress. Pretty severe suffering. You need to give your body time to develop muscles where you thought muscles could never be! Since the big long levers are the legs, I have taken Paul Smith's advice: To develop better technique, row strapless. I am not sure about the 10MPS business, but the strapless thing really works. Rowing strapless engages your legs more effectively. I am also an advocate of low spm rowing, so I rowed strapless at low stoke rates (and high power). If you row strapless at low stroke rates, 2K SPI is a good power to start with, I think, but in your strapless rowing, the object, I think, should be to increase this SPI as you are able. 2K SPI + 2 is better. 2K SPI + 3-5 is reallly out there. Rowing 10-20K seems a good distance. Good luck. ranger

Concept2 Forum

Apoligies To Big Paul Smith

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training