Hitting The End Of The Thing, A Beginner Question.

[old] Cran · Post by **[old] Cran** » September 10th, 2004, 4:10 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Also it has in my own experience a big negative effect on balance in the boat because of higher positioned centre of mass </td></tr></table>If you have the feet too low you tend to lift/fall off the seat (well I do anyway) as the leg drive has more of an upward element... <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Silly question: are you 'locking' your knees at the end of the stroke? </td></tr></table> I've never really understood what is meant by 'locking your knees'... when you drive with the legs they go from bent to straight, how can you do this wrong? What exactly is locking the knees? and why is it bad?

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » September 10th, 2004, 11:05 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>If you have the feet too low you tend to lift/fall off the seat (well I do anyway) as the leg drive has more of an upward element... </td></tr></table> Good point Cran, that would be when you are really determined to bounce the boat A way to think about the legdrive wich might help against this is to try to press down the knees instead of pushing youself/boat away. I haven't tried that mind game though since I dont have a problem falling of the seat.

[old] grams · Post by **[old] grams** » September 10th, 2004, 3:49 pm

I learned about 'locking' my knees when I was going up and down mountains while backpacking. I would take a step, and straighten the leg completely and 'lock' the knee in place while I took the next step. It put too much strain on my knees, and I had to stop hiking for a while. On the erg, you can do the same thing by straightening your legs completely and then pushing your knees down before starting your catch. I think that you have to be strapped in to do it. Have you tried rowing strapless doing the 1meters/stroke thing at a slow pace (like 20spm)?

[old] Cran · Post by **[old] Cran** » September 10th, 2004, 4:40 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I haven't tried that mind game though since I dont have a problem falling of the seat </td></tr></table>Me neither it's just in some boats (where some muppet has decided to fit size 15 shoes) the feet are too low... <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>On the erg, you can do the same thing by straightening your legs completely and then pushing your knees down before starting your catch </td></tr></table>ok, I think I can't do that, my leg/knee doesn't go further down than straight even if i press on it with my hands. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Have you tried rowing strapless doing the 1meters/stroke thing at a slow pace (like 20spm)? </td></tr></table>At 20 SPM I do about 13m/stroke even at light pressure, I've never understood the 10m/stroke thing... at low spm it is too easy, at high spm it is too hard...

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » September 16th, 2004, 10:25 am

RE: height of foot plates I just recently switched from a model B to a model C (thanks to Grams!) and for a while, felt that my leg drive just kind of wasn't there. It seemed like I was having to do a lot more with the arms and back to maintain the same paces. On the B, I had the foot plates set so that 2 sets of holes showed above (it was retrofitted with Flex Foot feet.) I wear a size 13AA and I'm 5'11. After rowing on the C a while I started messing around with the height of the foot plates, and found that putting the right one up one set of holes made it feel level, probably because my right foot is a whole size smaller than my left. And then I put both down as low as they can go (while still having the right one up a notch). Suddenly my leg drive is back, I can push harder, I feel "freer" , I can reach further forward, and the whole sequence of the recovery--hands forward, lean, and then bending the knees--is just smoother. This doesn't seem to make sense, because you folks all seem to be saying that putting the feet up higher makes for a better stroke. I don't experience this falling off the seat, and feel like I can get more power out of it with the feet lower. Am I doing something wrong, or is this just different for everyone depending on their build? Carla

[old] Canoeist · Post by **[old] Canoeist** » September 16th, 2004, 11:14 am

I have a 37" inseem, sit towards the front of the seat and just miss hitting the back stop at the end of the stroke when using the lowest foot setting. If I loosen the straps and do a final push with my heels (letting the toes come off the plate two inches) I will hit the backstop. If I use the upper footplate position, I no longer can hit the backstop. I did some experiments several years ago and found out that I could row faster if I used the top setting on the footplate. I have size 13 US shoes, so I had to loosen the straps for some time before my tendons stretched enough to keep my heels flat at the catch. The higher foot position does shorten the stroke somewhat, but that might have been my problem. A quick study of physics says that the closer your leg drive is to the chain direction, the more efficient. To quickly see this, put your feet flat on the ground and push and you will come right off the seat with little going into the chain. Put your feet higher and higher and more of the force goes into the chain. At one point, I was going to change the footplate with some plywood to put my feet higher than the top position in order to get 100% efficiency of the leg drive. But the Poo-Bahs at Concept said that this would be "a major modification of the erg and would not be allowed in races". I then tried putting tennis balls between my heel and the heelcup to raise my feet. I stopped the experiments because I didn't want to get injured just before BIRC. The higher foot position may be 100% efficient with the legs, but places strain on other parts of the body such as the lower back. I have been erging with the highest foot position for several years now and should probably go back and explore the tennis ball heel spacer again. Cheers, Paul Flack

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » September 16th, 2004, 10:35 pm

Aha. I must be feeling that I can drive better with the feet lower because I have a really tight, sore, inflexible lower back. So even if it's more inefficient for someone with better lower back flexibility, it works better for me lower. I sort of remember seeing somewhere on the C2 site that more flexible people would put the feet lower, or some guideline that said the balls of your feet should be at rail height, or something. So I thought I should have my feet higher. But I can't find a bit of info anywhere that says how you should decide what level to put your feet at, and I just must be remembering this backwards. I have worked really hard over the last few years to get my hamstrings stretched out, so my legs are actually pretty flexible, but the lower back is still like concrete. My legs don't feel uncomfortable with the feet higher. I guess I'll just stick with what seems to work. Maybe I'll be able to row better and get better times later on if I can get comfortable with the feet higher. Carla

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