Ranking Protocol Update

[[old] Canoeist]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+May 23 2005, 06:05 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ May 23 2005, 06:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Paul,<br /><br />That's a great idea.  In that case all my rows are "public events", as my garage door is always open.  There are probably at least 50 people who can see me rowing, every day, including all my PB events.<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John,<br /><br />I would define "public erg" as any erg where one or members of the rowing public are present as a witness. Please note, I said "rowing public" and not just anybody. This is so that things such as taking a rest during a marathon, having a "tag team", or "jacking" of the erg would be noted. <br /><br />There should probably be some sort of age limits and an exclusion of young family members. Having my nine year old son as a witness probably would not be a good idea since his answer may be strongly influenced by our family relationship and whether or not I give him ice cream after the race.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Paul Flack

[[old] John Rupp]

"It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grammes a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grammes a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it. ... Was he, then, alone in the possession of a memory?" <br /><br /><a href='http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/' target='_blank'>http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/</a>

[[old] John Rupp]

Paul,<br /><br />How you define "member of the rowing public"? <br /><br />Are you stating official rules, or what you would like to see. <br /><br />In any case, I can meet that rule, and note it would exclude witnesses in gyms who are not members of the rowing public.<br /><br />This is fine with me. Maybe we can get c2 to approve your idea.

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-Canoeist+May 23 2005, 07:25 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Canoeist @ May 23 2005, 07:25 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+May 23 2005, 06:05 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ May 23 2005, 06:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Paul,<br /><br />That's a great idea.  In that case all my rows are "public events", as my garage door is always open.  There are probably at least 50 people who can see me rowing, every day, including all my PB events.<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John,<br /><br />(snip) <br /><br />There should probably be some sort of age limits and an exclusion of young family members. Having my nine year old son as a witness probably would not be a good idea since his answer may be strongly influenced by our family relationship and whether or not I give him ice cream after the race.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Paul Flack <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />In roaring-twenties Chicago, the definition of an honest witness used to be one who stayed bought.... <br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-michaelb+May 23 2005, 04:20 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(michaelb @ May 23 2005, 04:20 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I appreciate the response by C2 finally, but I don't see why people see this as an acceptable compromise.  What did C2 "compromise" other than the prior notice of the attempt?  Several women have posted on this forum that they are top 3 for their age and yet row alone at home; their results will no longer be be ranked and cannot be verified.  Andreas and FrankJ have indicated that they want to set top ranked performances in online races with rowpro, and yet neither will be allowed to do so by C2.<br /><br />In adopting this policy, C2 still hasn't explained how this policy of requiring a public and witnessed machine for a top 3 row to be ranked, can realistically be applied to the marathon and half marathon distances.  We want more people competing, not less.<br /><br />While it may seem like a small thing to dispute, whether someone's row is listed with a number or not, if I was the fastest or one of the fastest people in the world in this unknown and obscure sport of indoor rowing, it would matter to me. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well, become the fastest or one of the fastest people in the world in this obscure sport of indoor rowing and see if it still matters to you, perhaps you will change your mind. <br /><br />Personally I don't see this as an "acceptable compromise", I've voiced my opinion on the matter an will accept whatever rules happen to be in place by the "governing authority", I haven't even logged anything online in so long that I wonder if my account is still in place. My GPS tracks all the meters, and the logging program totals them up and keeps a daily record. You see, we all have choices, even to click the "rank" link or not, after entering a time. Apparenlty, if you do click it and have a fast time, you will be asked to get a code to get a number, otherwise, if it's the fastest time it still goes to the top of the list, seems pretty straight forward, people can believe it or not, just like it has been all along.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+May 23 2005, 06:16 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ May 23 2005, 06:16 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In roaring-twenties Chicago, the definition of an honest witness used to be one who stayed bought....  <br /> </td></tr></table><br />And alive.

[[old] ancho]

Seems quite difficult to keep the balance between all the ideas I have read so far. I think, C2bill has taken his time and thought a lot about what to do, y¡trying to find consense. You never can please EVERYBODY, I think the proposed solution matches most of the ranking members, and is a fair compromise.<br />Once it is introduce, we will see how it works.<br />Thanks Bill, thanks everybody else as well for the input and interesting thread!

[[old] Canoeist]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+May 24 2005, 12:57 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ May 24 2005, 12:57 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are you stating official rules, or what you would like to see. <br /><br />In any case, I can meet that rule, and note it would exclude witnesses in gyms who are not members of the rowing public. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John, <br /><br />I am suggesting this as a guidline or to be included in the "official rules". I have excluded non-rowing gym members because they don't know what they are looking at to witness. They might even require the row to be done on damper #10 to be official or some nonsense like that. Also, I suspect that most gym members could be bought for the price of a beer to witness some non-event on a little used piece of machenery in the dusty corner of the gym. Only a real rower would understand the significance and see the sheer beauty of 17K in a one hour row. (Or hang around that long to watch the entire thing!)<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Paul Flack

[[old] Bufflehead]

How about we all give this a rest? (I might even suggest that some of you get a life! ) I am one of the women you are speaking of. My time would be number 3 by default in the marathon - not because I'm fast. It simply means that only two other women did a marathon last year in my bracket. I really don't need a number to show me that I did the marathon. I will be happy just to be able to post the fact that I did it in hopes that it might inspire someone else to have a go at it!<br /><br />I applaud C2 for listening to us. They have a great thing going here. It has meant a great deal to some of us who would otherwise never have "competed" in anything in our lives.<br /><br />Thank you C2, and especially Bill! <br />Sue

[[old] John Rupp]

Sue,<br /><br />Your time would not be #3, because you didn't row it on a public erg.<br /><br />You can thank C2 for that, if you want, which is certainly your choice to do so.

[[old] John Rupp]

I am likewise happy with many of the outstanding things done by C2.<br /><br />However, their excluding the majority of people from ranking their times in top 3, is clearly not one of them.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+May 24 2005, 06:21 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ May 24 2005, 06:21 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I am likewise happy with many of the outstanding things done by C2.<br /><br />However, their excluding the majority of people from ranking their times in top 3, is clearly not one of them. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />With all due respect. <br /><br /><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><b>ENOUGH OF THIS DRIVEL!</b></span><br /><br />The vast majority is excluded from the "TOP THREE" simply because it is the TOP THREE (well as long as there are at least 7 people in the category), now if you think you have a shot at being one of those top three, shut up and get on with it.<br /><br />How about we go back to the nice reasonable discussions about how to equalize things so slow short light people can compete with fast tall heavy ones? Oh wait, the Erg doesn't hold anything against anyone, it already is completely equal.<br />

[[old] VickyPollard]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+May 24 2005, 02:21 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ May 24 2005, 02:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->blah blah blah </td></tr></table><br />I'm not bovered

[[old] dadams]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+May 24 2005, 10:26 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ May 24 2005, 10:26 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />With all due respect.  <br /><br /><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><b>ENOUGH OF THIS DRIVEL!</b></span><br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ditto!!!<br />

[[old] Godfried]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+May 24 2005, 05:26 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ May 24 2005, 05:26 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How about we go back to the nice reasonable discussions about how to equalize things so slow short light people can compete with fast tall heavy ones?  Oh wait, the Erg doesn't hold anything against anyone, it already is completely equal.<br /> </td></tr></table><br />Just let them jack their slides. <br />