Why The Censorship?

[old] Cran · Post by **[old] Cran** » February 3rd, 2005, 12:57 pm

chello is ok...<br />but he<span style='font-family:Arial'>ll</span> isn't...

[old] PaulH · Post by **[old] PaulH** » February 3rd, 2005, 1:47 pm

It's an automatic setting in the board at the moment. *Please* don't try to figure out what words are in or out of the list, as it will be changing soon anyway. Quite how it should change is being decided now, but in the meantime let's try to remember that there really are very few concepts that actually *require* offensive language to properly express them!<br /><br />Cheers, Paul

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » February 3rd, 2005, 2:26 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulH @ Feb 3 2005, 09:47 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>It's an automatic setting in the board at the moment. *Please* don't try to figure out what words are in or out of the list, as it will be changing soon anyway. Quite how it should change is being decided now, but in the meantime let's try to remember that there really are very few concepts that actually *require* offensive language to properly express them!<br /><br />Cheers, Paul <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't quite see the point of the censorship. Whether you write h***, h**l, any other version or the word itself, the mind says the word anyway. Why is thinking h*** worse than seeing the word he<span style='font-family:Arial'>ll</span>?

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » February 3rd, 2005, 2:30 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Cran @ Feb 3 2005, 08:57 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>chello is ok...<br />but he<span style='font-family:Arial'>ll</span> isn't... <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Cran, you are one helluva creative guy.

[old] TRIBUM · Post by **[old] TRIBUM** » February 3rd, 2005, 3:25 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Roland Baltutis @ Feb 2 2005, 08:40 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>My take on this is that the software was written in the USA, which has a very high percentage of Christian extremists compared to other countries. They seem to have a hold over the authorities as to what can be viewed and said in public.<br /><br />For example, there was a huge uproar when Janet Jackson exposed her boob at the NFL Superbowl final. If that happened in Australia, N.Z. or Europe, the public reaction would have been completely different. They all would have asked for more. Certainly nobody would have been fined.<br /><br />However, what people who don't reside in the USA don't comprehend is that certain language and naked flesh is definitely a big No, No. But violence and bloodshed is no problem. Movies and Cop shows in the USA are full of it but the sexy bits are heavily censored. That's the complete opposite to the way things are censored in Australia.<br /><br />I can't figure that one out. Maybe someone can explain to me why violence in the USA is not censored but nudity/sex is. Surely the violence and bloodshed is going to do more harm to our kids minds then a bit of naked flesh.<br /><br />How did the censors get it wrong?<br /><br /><br /><i>Keep it smooth, keep it relaxed<br />Roland Baltutis</i> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Roland,<br /><br />Try living in a world where anything goes. There must be boundaries or chaos would reign. Hedonism? Ever heard of it? Maybe America doesn't have the best system of censorship, but I'll take America over any other country in the world.<br /><br />America is to easily labeled puritanical by other countries (especially those in Europe). Where do you think a majority of America's ancestors came from in order to escape religious persecution and live free?<br /><br />Everyone likes to bash America - why not compliment America? We give the most the most aid to foreign countries in need. We fight tyrannical dictatorships. I ask you what kind of place would the world be without America?<br /><br />Peace out!<br />Craig<br />

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » February 3rd, 2005, 3:30 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />Roland,<br /><br />Try living in a world where anything goes. There must be boundaries or chaos would reign. Hedonism? Ever heard of it? Maybe America doesn't have the best system of censorship, but I'll take America over any other country in the world.<br /><br />America is to easily labeled puritanical by other countries (especially those in Europe). Where do you think a majority of America's ancestors came from in order to escape religious persecution and live free?<br /><br />Everyone likes to bash America - why not compliment America? We give the most the most aid to foreign countries in need. We fight tyrannical dictatorships. I ask you what kind of place would the world be without America?<br /><br />Peace out!<br />Craig<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Being an American that has actually lived outside the US for a number of years, that is the response I would expect from an American who probably has not. And if you did, then you probably weren't the most popular guy around. That sort of American arrogance is exactly why alot of other cultures around the world dislike us.

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » February 3rd, 2005, 5:11 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TRIBUM @ Feb 4 2005, 08:25 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I ask you what kind of place would the world be without America?<br />Peace out!<br />Craig <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Where is censorship when you need it

[old] Porkchop · Post by **[old] Porkchop** » February 3rd, 2005, 9:09 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TRIBUM @ Feb 3 2005, 02:25 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Roland Baltutis @ Feb 2 2005, 08:40 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>My take on this is that the software was written in the USA, which has a very high percentage of Christian extremists compared to other countries. They seem to have a hold over the authorities as to what can be viewed and said in public.<br /><br />For example, there was a huge uproar when Janet Jackson exposed her boob at the NFL Superbowl final. If that happened in Australia, N.Z. or Europe, the public reaction would have been completely different. They all would have asked for more. Certainly nobody would have been fined.<br /><br />However, what people who don't reside in the USA don't comprehend is that certain language and naked flesh is definitely a big No, No. But violence and bloodshed is no problem. Movies and Cop shows in the USA are full of it but the sexy bits are heavily censored. That's the complete opposite to the way things are censored in Australia.<br /><br />I can't figure that one out. Maybe someone can explain to me why violence in the USA is not censored but nudity/sex is. Surely the violence and bloodshed is going to do more harm to our kids minds then a bit of naked flesh.<br /><br />How did the censors get it wrong?<br /><br /><br /><i>Keep it smooth, keep it relaxed<br />Roland Baltutis</i> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Roland,<br /><br />Try living in a world where anything goes. There must be boundaries or chaos would reign. Hedonism? Ever heard of it? Maybe America doesn't have the best system of censorship, but I'll take America over any other country in the world.<br /><br />America is to easily labeled puritanical by other countries (especially those in Europe). Where do you think a majority of America's ancestors came from in order to escape religious persecution and live free?<br /><br />Everyone likes to bash America - why not compliment America? We give the most the most aid to foreign countries in need. We fight tyrannical dictatorships. I ask you what kind of place would the world be without America?<br /><br />Peace out!<br />Craig <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Let's not put all Americans in the same basket, here, if you please.<br /><br />Janet Jackson? Truly a case of making, ahem, a mountain out of a molehill. <br /><br />Escaping religious persecution by coming to America from Europe? Only in some colonies at some times. Not until the Bill of Rights was adopted was freedom of worship (or not to) guaranteed in all states; by that time, the religious wars were long over in Europe and most serious religious persecution had ended. Moreover, I suspect that the emigration decision for most Europeans, especially after 1800 or so, had more to do with economics than with religion. The Irish, the Italians, and the Poles did not come to the United States to escape Catholicism, nor did the Scandinavians and (North) Germans come to escape from Lutheranism. In any event, emigration decisions made 200-300 years ago don't really prove anything with respect to whether there is a puritanical atmosphere today. <br /><br />US foreign aid may be the largest in gross amount, but it is actually guite a bit smaller as a percentage of gross domestic product (or any of a number of economic measures) than many other countries. <br /><br />If some of us Americans spent less time patting ourselves on the back in international forums and telling the world how grateful it should be that we are here, and instead spent more time listening to what people in other countries actually say, we'd probably be better received. Nobody likes to hang around with a narcissist.<br /><br />Just my 2 cents. <br /><br />Porkchop

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » February 3rd, 2005, 10:12 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Porkchop @ Feb 3 2005, 05:09 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Nobody likes to hang around with a narcissist.<br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Where is everybody?<br />

[old] TRIBUM · Post by **[old] TRIBUM** » February 4th, 2005, 12:34 am

Porkchop is it?<br /><br />Patting ourselves on the back? I don't believe I did that. I'm not a narcissist either, and the world should be grateful for America. I have traveled to Europe during the last 3 summers. I am aware of what a small, very vocal portion of the rest of Europe thinks of America - and frankly who cares what they think?<br /><br />They should also be grateful, because without America they'd be speaking Russian or German.

[old] TRIBUM · Post by **[old] TRIBUM** » February 4th, 2005, 12:47 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TRIBUM @ Feb 3 2005, 09:34 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Porkchop is it?<br /><br />Patting ourselves on the back? I don't believe I did that. I'm not a narcissist either, and the world should be grateful for America. I have traveled to Europe during the last 3 summers. I am aware of what a small, very vocal portion of the rest of Europe thinks of America - and frankly who cares what they think?<br /><br />They should also be grateful, because without America they'd be speaking Russian or German. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Enough politics. Mea culpa. Let's row!

[old] Porkchop · Post by **[old] Porkchop** » February 4th, 2005, 1:10 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TRIBUM @ Feb 3 2005, 11:34 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>They should also be grateful, because without America they'd be speaking Russian or German. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />This is a perfect example of the problem. Your statement is true, but World War II was over almost 60 years ago. The bulk of the Americans who did the saving are dead, as are a substantial share of the saved. At some point, it becomes a lot less personal and a lot more historical. <br /><br />By the same logic, we Americans should be eternally grateful to France because Admiral de Grasse showed up with the French fleet off the Yorktown peninsula in 1781. I have noticed that our gratitude for that seems to have fallen by the wayside when the French had the temerity to disagree with American foreign policy some 222 years later. As a matter of fact, we were at war with France by 1801 or so. <br /><br />The fact is that our forebears helped their forebears, and vice versa. That's nice, but telling a contemporary Frenchman that he personally, not to mention his entire country, owes a debt of gratitude to contemporary America because of something that happened 60 years ago is pushing the limits in my view.<br /><br />To personalize it a bit -- suppose I grab you and pull you back from the curb just before a bus is about to run you over. I'm sure you'd be grateful, but if I reminded you of it once a day for years afterwards, I bet you'd eventually get sick of hearing about it. Imagine then that my child took up the practice of reminding your child on a regular basis for years after that. That would get old VERY quickly. Besides, although your child theoretically might owe <b>me</b> a debt of gratitude for saving his father, your child would owe my child nothing, because my child had nothing to do with the incident.<br /><br />Some peoples and countries probably should be very grateful to the United States on a lot of fronts, but we lose a lot of good will when we constantly remind them of it.<br /><br /><br />Porkchop<br /><br />

[old] TRIBUM · Post by **[old] TRIBUM** » February 4th, 2005, 3:54 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Porkchop @ Feb 3 2005, 10:10 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TRIBUM @ Feb 3 2005, 11:34 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>They should also be grateful, because without America they'd be speaking Russian or German. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />This is a perfect example of the problem. Your statement is true, but World War II was over almost 60 years ago. The bulk of the Americans who did the saving are dead, as are a substantial share of the saved. At some point, it becomes a lot less personal and a lot more historical. <br /><br />By the same logic, we Americans should be eternally grateful to France because Admiral de Grasse showed up with the French fleet off the Yorktown peninsula in 1781. I have noticed that our gratitude for that seems to have fallen by the wayside when the French had the temerity to disagree with American foreign policy some 222 years later. As a matter of fact, we were at war with France by 1801 or so. <br /><br />The fact is that our forebears helped their forebears, and vice versa. That's nice, but telling a contemporary Frenchman that he personally, not to mention his entire country, owes a debt of gratitude to contemporary America because of something that happened 60 years ago is pushing the limits in my view.<br /><br />To personalize it a bit -- suppose I grab you and pull you back from the curb just before a bus is about to run you over. I'm sure you'd be grateful, but if I reminded you of it once a day for years afterwards, I bet you'd eventually get sick of hearing about it. Imagine then that my child took up the practice of reminding your child on a regular basis for years after that. That would get old VERY quickly. Besides, although your child theoretically might owe <b>me</b> a debt of gratitude for saving his father, your child would owe my child nothing, because my child had nothing to do with the incident.<br /><br />Some peoples and countries probably should be very grateful to the United States on a lot of fronts, but we lose a lot of good will when we constantly remind them of it.<br /><br /><br />Porkchop <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You don't like America do you?

[old] jamesg · Post by **[old] jamesg** » February 4th, 2005, 5:37 am

Come on we're all part of the same tribe, the naked apes.<br /><br />Gratitude is fine and dandy and so is doing one's duty, and both are personal. If we owe gratitude to anyone it's to single men and women, Roosevelt, Churchill, even Stalin, Truman, Elizabeth I, Suor Juana Inez de la Cruz, Du Fu, Ghandi, Sappho, Catullus, Mozart, Shakes, Rembrandt, the Barons that got a King to sign the Magna Charta, the pilots at Midway and countless dead at sea, in the air and in trenches and on beaches.. add your own..<br /><br />All we can do in the way of gratitude, is to remember and continue. And do what they did when necessary.<br /><br />We can always form sub-tribes, so long as we remember the main one and keep priorities right - otherwise the erger tribe has a right to go out Saturday nite and bash the chess players or the Sumo wrestlers (well maybe we can draw the line there), so let's continue not to name an erger-in-chief and not to believe in gurus...

[old] sivkoburko · Post by **[old] sivkoburko** » February 4th, 2005, 5:42 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TRIBUM @ Feb 3 2005, 11:34 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>They should also be grateful, because without America they'd be speaking Russian or German. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Apologies for continuing this thread, but really...<br /><br />I speak Russian anyway More to the point, all credit to America for getting involved in WWII, but bear in mind that the Soviet Union played a major part in ensuring an Allied victory by fighting on the Eastern Front, which was a huge power-drain on the Axis powers - and cost many, many lives on both sides. This seems (to some extent understandably) to have been forgotten in the aftermath and throughout the Cold War, when there was as much anti-Soviet propaganda in the West as there was anti-Western propaganda in the Soviet bloc. Worth bearing in mind, but then probably I'm just an apologist for the USSR by even suggesting this <br /><br />The problem with this normative "Europe <i>should</i> be grateful" attitude is that it seems very, very arrogant and narrow-minded. To give an analogy, it's the difference between someone constantly talking about what an excellent, morally upstanding, charitable person s/he is and someone who goes and gets on with helping people, allowing their deeds to speak for themselves. They can both be decent people, but the first one is pretty likely to irritate the [insert word of choice] out of alot of people who start thinking "great, you're a decent bloke you say, then stop telling me how great you are and go and get on with it!"<br /><br />It takes two to tango and if Americans want to stop getting bashed, then a good first stop would be to stop proclaiming that they're right and that anyone who doesn't agree is simply stupid, wrong or evil; tolerance and a respect for diversity are, in theory, key features of the "free world" - as is the basic principle of not offending people unnecessarily, so I'll respect the fact that some people are Christian fundamentalists if they respect my right to be agnostic. So simple in theory, yet never quite works out in practice...<br /><br />Anyhow, enough food for thought (helps pass the time on those loooong rows). Happy rowing<br /><br />Sivkoburko

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